If a woman is pregnant and the relationship with the unborn child's father ends, does she have a right to deny him any involvement with the child when it's born?

[BarbecuedBananas]

An old friend I hadn't heard from in ages is in this position. He's asked me for advice because I'm a lone parent and I suppose he thought I'd know what's what. Except I don't. For all the grief there's been between my ex-partner and I, we manage to achieve a reasonable co-parenting relationship most of the time.

Anyway, my friend's ex-partner plans to have the baby. He has said he'd like to go to scans if possible, and to be involved in his child's life and be a good, hands-on dad from when it's born onwards. She has said no - that she doesn't want him having anything to do with her or with the child.

I've said that, providing there hasn't been/isn't any abuse in the equation (he says there hasn't been/isn't - and TBH I can't imagine for a minute that he'd be abusive), that I don't think she has a right to determine his relationship (or lack of) with his child like this - but to be honest, I'm not 100% sure. And I realise that, in reality, some mothers (and fathers) do this.

I've said to continue to calmly and respectfully show an interest in the pregnancy and the baby, and to express this (and most communication) in writing (email/text), and to keep copies of his sent messages to his ex-partner - and to keep her replies. And also to find out where he stands legally (contact Families Need Fathers?), and take it from there.

Any other advice? What are his and his unborn child's rights in this situation? Thanks.

That's very sad, Gorilla.

God, that's awful. I'm so sorry. That poor child.

I just wish the deadbeat dads and the obstructive mothers could hook up, and leave the sane people to procreate together. I mean if a child is going to lose Dad due to Mum, why not make that a Dad who wants to be lost?

No in a word, the child has a right to a relationship with its father whether she likes it or not.

My brother is in this exact situation.
I feel so sorry for him as he haven't even felt the baby move (she's 30+ weeks). He really wants to be a hands on Dad and I think she will make things very difficult even though he has done nothing wrong.
Sadly I think she may have just used him as a sperm donor

Look, until the baby is actually born the father has no rights and can fuck right off. If the mother had told the father to fuck off already and the father is a saint and the mother a bitch, the best option for the father (whie a pregnancy is ongoing) is to get the message to the mohter 'I want to see my child and kwno my child and suppoort my child financielaly, please get in touch when you ae ready after the birth' and put that on record.

Mumcah, why should he have the right to feel the baby move? That would mean having to touch his ex, of course she doesn't have to agree to that!

Agree with SCGB and Mumcah. The child's right to a relationship with both parents obviously starts only after birth.

millie30-of course he doesn't have a right to feel the baby move it's just something that he will not experience.also I'm talking about my own brother's situation not the OP's.
Sadly in my DB situation his ex doesn't seem to want anything to do with him even though they only were together for 3 months when she fell pregnant.Nothing bad happened,no affair or abuse etc.
Just a shame she didn't fall pregnant with a bloke who doesn't give a shit.
They have talked about contact after and he will be 'allowed' to have the baby every other weekend.She is going to have a massive shock when the baby comes I fear.

perfectstorm That's a fab idea. We could make them all wear bells round their necks! :o

dont know about legally but morally the child belongs equally to both parents

neither one has the right to deny the other

What a sad situation. Agree that backing off for now is a good idea, hard as that is, and just have it recorded that he wants to be involved after the birth.

Then he should get to the CAB and make sure he knows exactly what his rights and responsibilities are, and the best way to achieve them. He'll still need to tread carefully after the birth though - as said upthread it'd be a very bad idea to go storming into the maternity unit. No matter how desperately he wants (and deserves) to see his baby :(

Monsta, I think I see it as the child "belonging to" nobody, but having a right to care, love and input from both parents.

Parents don't have rights. They have duties. If more understood this, perhaps fewer would be arses.

And no pregnant woman should have to have contact with anyone she doesn't want to, but after the baby is born she needs to work with the other person for the sake of that child. Once you have kids, you have to co-parent unless the ither person is actively abusive. If you don't want to, the time to work that out is before conception.

Agree that in this case the best thing is to make it plain he will be offering time... and money. And to back off until after the birth.

Wait wait, did he dump her? If he dumped her, then why the fuck does he think she should let him come to her hospital appointments etc? If he dumped her, but still wants involvement with the child, he has to wait until there actually is a child. I'd imagine it's unlikely for a pregnant woman to dump their partner unless there is abuse. If he keeps pestering her, then really he is being abusive and stalkerish to a pregnant woman which is really fucking low. I don't know why people think 'fathers rights' trump childs rights or womens rights to general personal autonomy, but legally thank god he has no rights over her at this point. And he sounds like a wanker, thinking about 'his rights' rather than what's good for her and the baby.

Mostamunch, morally children aren't possessions, so they don't "belong" to either parent. FFS.

I bet she will be more than happy to take his money via the CSA.

"I'd imagine it's unlikely for a pregnant woman to dump their partner unless there is abuse."

Really? I think most women wold think very carefully, if accidentally knocked up in a brief relationship, about what they wanted long-term. And I know someone who did it. Nice guy, but she realised she didn't want to be with him forever and felt it was better they split sooner than later, given she was not someone who believed in termination. They're friends, and both care for the child. It worked out surprisingly okay. I think assumptions on either side ("she was treating him as a sperm donor!" "He's an abusive git!") are pointless - the truth may be either, neither, or both. The only thing that really matters is that a child is on the way who has a right to love, care and financial support from both parents. Legally and morally.

Facefull I expect so, but it would serve him well if he has to go to court if he can be shown to have taken responsiblity from the start. It would also perhaps show his ex the same thing.

I do agree that he has no right to attend her medical appointments, or indeed to see her at all. Though it might be nice if she sent scan pics. (I know, in the scenario described, that that's vanishingly unlikely.)

Wibblybibble the person thinking about rights would appear to be the mother. A child is not her possession, either.

I also agree that it doesn't matter whether "he dumped her". He's not looking for an ongoing relationship with the mother (although they need to be able to communicate in order to co-parent), but is presumably only interested in playing an active part in bringing up their child.

The OP wouldn't know if the relationship had been abusive or not.

My x honestly does not realise he was abusive to me.

But that aside, I agree that his best chances of a good relationship are to back off for now, respect her wishes. No point coming in all guns blazing before the baby is even born.

It's perfectly possible to build an amicable co-parenting relationship with someone who doesn't suit you as a partner. My DS' dad is an old friend of mine, we got pissed one night, had a shag and DS was the result. DS' dad was not around during the PG, having decided he didn't feel ready for fatherhood (and I do not hold this against him and never did: it was my decision to continue the unexpected pregnancy) - however he had a change of heart shortly before DS was born and is now a very involved and devoted father.
Once the baby is born in the situation described by the OP, the mother may well be happy to share parenting not least because there will be times when she wants to go out and socialise or whatever, and there is no better babysitter than the child's other parent.