ex P wants to take young kids and live in SA with new fiancee

m18c16 · 2011-05-26T13:44:48+00:00

hi - first posting divorced 2 years now, 2 kids 6.5 and 9 - ex wife texted me from SA saying she and fiancee (news to me) want to go and live in SA with kids (she's english and lives in UK at present as do I).......... I'm devastated, as is my son who doesn't want to go and dislikes fiancee Is she just thinking of herself and not the kids and their right to have a relationship with their father?, would it in your opinions be harmful to the children?..............................how do I deal with this, will be meeting her soon to discuss what's best for the children, but I fear she's blind to what it'll do to them :( devastated daddy

holyShmoley · 26/05/2011 14:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chris123456 · 26/05/2011 14:53

Go to court and apply for an injunction

perfectstorm · 26/05/2011 14:55

Please post in legal about this, asap. There are things you can do to try to stop her. It's not an automatic right she has.

I'd also get in touch with these people in case she tries the fait accompli. And I would not react to it until she comes home, in case she doesn't come home. Just say there are pros and cons and you hope the three of you can sit down and work out what would be best - and that the kids are having a lovely holiday. The good news is that South Africa is signed up to the Hague Convention, so if she did try to keep them you could force their return here, so a UK court would work out what to do.

I think it would almost always be harmful to the kids, if you see a lot of them, are engaged, responsible and contribute in all ways to their lives. I'm a woman and I am appalled when people do this, if their kids have a good relationship with the other parent. Childhood is relatively short and life is long. There is nothing to stop her going when your kids are at university age.

How often do you see them?

MiraNova · 26/05/2011 14:57

What an awful situation for you. I'm no expert, but if you were married then you have parental responsibility (pr) and she can't take the children out of the country without your agreement. She could apply to a court for permission, who would look at the full picture, and make a decision based on what is in the best interests of the children. I would expect maintaining a good relationship with their father would be hard to override.

hopefully someone with more expertise will post here soon - good luck.

Mouseface · 26/05/2011 14:58

Yes, legal help should be your first port of call here.

Do you have 50/50 care of the children? And has your access ever been decided by a court of law?

You might also do well to C&P this in the law section on here.

So sorry that you are going through this but you need to stop speculating and start getting practical help. Find a local solicitor, get your free half our and take a list of questions with you.

I actually don't think that you can stop her unless you have shared custody or a court order in place. Or unless that she is unfil to take them 24/7, or unsuitable partner, area, children will be at risk if they go etc........

Sorry I can't really help.

perfectstorm · 26/05/2011 14:58

It would be a Prohibited Steps order rather than an injunction, I think, but again you need to post in legal. Relationships is not the best place for legal type advice as we all have strong personal opinions, and acting in a situation like this needs you to get all your ducks in a row from a legal perspective.

I would also keep very, very quiet about your anger, fear and legal researches. If you can keep things amicable and friendly it would obviously be best. In my experience some people will fight for something all the harder if the ex says no in an aggressive way. You need to keep this calm and child-centred when talking to her, IMO.

perfectstorm · 26/05/2011 15:01

"I actually don't think that you can stop her unless you have shared custody or a court order in place. Or unless that she is unfil to take them 24/7, or unsuitable partner, area, children will be at risk if they go etc..."

It used to be that you could hardly ever, because the attitude was that the mother's mental health and happiness was the most important factor in her childrens', but the past decade has shifted that a tad, I believe. It isn't guaranteed but it is possible that he can stop her, I think, if they have a strong relationship and he has always been consistent about regular contact etc. Legal is the place to post with people who'd know.

Original poster

m18c16 · 26/05/2011 15:17

thanks all for your replies............

I have a consent order in place - every fortnight the children stay with me over the weekend and I also have them by arrangement during the holidays. She has just come back to the UK from SA (she went there according to my son to see if the place they will live was suitable). I pay child maintenance through the CSA, spousal maintenance (grrrr) and for my son's private education here in the UK. Everything has been amicable with the ex until this piece of news. My son DOES NOT WANT TO GO and I have asked him a few times, it's still his answer. I don't think ex has known this guy for too long (he lives in SA), but suddenly she's engaged etc and wants to go live there. My son has always been a sensitive child, the D really messed him up and now this!

The problem with all of this is that I love my children with all my heart, and they love me too and constantly say 'I love you daddy', and I cannot bear the thought of only seeing them every 6 months if it came to that. Court is the last resort as I fear it'll just entrench her and she'll make it difficult for me to see them.........

sometimes I feel like I'm teetering on the edge.....................

OP posts:

Original poster

m18c16 · 26/05/2011 15:22

thanks all for your replies............

I have a consent order in place - every fortnight the children stay with me over the weekend and I also have them by arrangement during the holidays. She has just come back to the UK from SA (she went there according to my son to see if the place they will live was suitable). I pay child maintenance through the CSA, spousal maintenance (grrrr) and for my son's private education here in the UK. Everything has been amicable with the ex until this piece of news. My son DOES NOT WANT TO GO and I have asked him a few times, it's still his answer. I don't think ex has known this guy for too long (he lives in SA), but suddenly she's engaged etc and wants to go live there. My son has always been a sensitive child, the D really messed him up and now this!

The problem with all of this is that I love my children with all my heart, and they love me too and constantly say 'I love you daddy', and I cannot bear the thought of only seeing them every 6 months if it came to that. Court is the last resort as I fear it'll just entrench her and she'll make it difficult for me to see them.........

sometimes I feel like I'm teetering on the edge.....................

OP posts:

perfectstorm · 26/05/2011 15:30

Please, please post on legal. They will give really good advice, and a decent lawyer (one recommended by Resolution, for example) won't be aggressive.

I can recommend one actually who is an expert in cases of entrenched hostility and thus very, very expert on how to avoid them! She's helped my friend who faced an implacably hostile ex a great deal. She's very big on trying to avoid a bunker mentality and absolutely focuses on the children's best interests. She's the sort of lawyer everyone deserves. Let me know if you want me to PM her info to you. I know 3 people now who have used her and they all rave over her. But she is London based, which may not be of use.

Original poster

m18c16 · 26/05/2011 15:32

thanks perfectstorm

yes please - pm me

have posted in legal, and London is no problem - I live in the south east

cheers

OP posts:

perfectstorm · 26/05/2011 15:33

I should stress here - I do not, personally, believe this in in any way likely to be in their interests. Children need both parents unless one is abusive in some way. I think good legal advice and perhaps attending family mediation with your ex to focus on what this could do to your kids might be a positive start. She isn't just talking about totally disrupting their lives, she's doing it over a relationship that is new, and in a way that could dislocate their relationship with the other most important person in their young lives.

facefull · 26/05/2011 15:33

My friend was in exactly the same situation as you, and it was SA she wanted to go to. He was able to prevent her from leaving the country via his solicitor. If she a residency order for the kids she can't take them out of the country for more than 28 days without your permission also.

perfectstorm · 26/05/2011 15:44

Have PM'd you. Good luck.

JustaNickname · 26/05/2011 16:01

I really feel for you as you sound like a lovely man and a great dad. My ex took me to court to stop me taking our ds to live in England from Ireland. First court case was very cut and dry and decided that it was in ds's best interest to be near his dad (Didn't matter that we had never lived together, he had never contributed to his up bringing financially, and was just not a nice guy i found out all to late) I was able to appeal the case and the second time round it was alot more detailed I was able to put my case forward to a judge who actually had ds's best interests at heart and I was then given permission to move. Alot of work has been put into this arrangement and I won;t be moving until summer. Basically I have to bring Ds over 7 times a year (he will come over 3 to see ds in england) and he has to pay maintenance finally. I'm not saying your ex is in the right at all I'm just saying if you do things the right way what is best for the child will win out in the end. If I honestly believed it was best for ds to be around his dad I would stay but its not and the court agrees with me.

I don't think you are like my ex in any way and can't see you having any problems if you show yourself to be a reasonable, responsible, caring father. I really wish you the best of luck.