Anyone gone 'no contact' with an NPD sibling?

[googietheegg]

I don't know how to handle this - my older brother is almost certainly NPD. He's also been incredibly rude and offensive to me, lied and been really shit regarding shared business situations. I won't say anymore as it will out me, but basically I'm trying to be NC with him. Of course, he won't realise this as he thinks everyone thinks he's great and can say anything to anyone without any consequences.

He keeps calling and texting me with no reference to the horrible things he said to me, just saying 'I've had a great day' or 'I did this...'. I can't block him on my phone as lots of clients call me, so if I just have his number in (no name) I might accidently answer it.

How does NC actually work? Especally for someone with ludicroulsy thick skin!!
I've also just had a miscarriage so I don't want to get into sorting this out - tried that before and he never changes, so I just don't have the appetite.

NC is exactly what it says...no contact...none at all.

I've been NC with my sister for roughly 5 years now.

Potted version of events...

30+ years of crap from her...finally I got fed up and told her to F* Off and I meant it.

I then installed caller ID and stopped taking her phone calls. Her email addy was blocked...so I got no emails. All post to any family member was retuned to her.

18 months later and she finally stopped trying to contact me.

NC doesn't just happen...you have to make it happen...and keep making it happen...you have to be very determined that this is what you want and work hard at it.

Just be aware that once true NC is established there may be no way back. You may want contact later but there is always the chance that the NC person may not want contact with you.

Many people are happy with low contact as this keeps the door open for a change of mind later on.

For me and my family of choice, NC was absolutely the right decision.

Thanks mizzy - very helpful. Why did you choose NC over low contact?

You're right that low contact might be suitable - he has a lovely wife and kids that I'd hate not to see, and he also lives in my home town, where my parents and best friend also lives, so it would be very hard to go NC.

I'm sure if he didn't live there I'd want to visit more often.

I would second what MizzyFizzy has written in its entireity.

My DH has not spoken to his brother for some years now and his brother is NPD. There is no contact at all between the two of them. We're far better off without having this narcissist in our lives because they will suck you dry given any opportunity and damage you emotionally.

The website below may be helpful:-
www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd

I also feel sorry for his wife and children:(. Life is no picnic for them.

Hi googie,

I chose NC over low contact as my low contact boundaries weren't being listened to. I was not allowed to be busy with my own life at all...my sister expected me to drop my DH and DC's at a moments notice to attend to her latest self manufactured drama.

The final straw came when our gas pipes sprung a leak, big emergency situation, oodles of gas men all over my house and kids removed to someone else house for safety reasons until it was fixed.

Sister invited herself for coffee and I said no, I couldn't do it that day and explained why....she then went off on a 'everybody hates me' guilt trip tirade because I couldn't 'do coffee time' that day!!!!! My house could have exploded FGS! I just saw red and lost it!

It got to the point of either I paid attention to my marriage and DC or I was at risk of becoming a 'visitor' to my own life.

Sister lives in the same town as me too.

If low contact suits you better then I'd suggest just cutting down the amount of texts you reply to as well as finding an imaginary reason to cut phone calls short. Talking about general stuff ie 'the weather' ect is also a useful aid to push the sibling into a less intrusive position.

Hopefully these tactics will be enough to create a few small boundaries to allow you to relax a bit.

I broke off all contact with my brother for about 10 years. He is very competitive, was always a bully and was very verbally and sometimes physically abusive. He would often put me down, sometimes in front of others, didn't listen to me and for a long time had me doing all kinds of things for him (I even moved his stuff from one flat to another for him once while he was on holiday) but never said so much as thank you. If he was meeting mutual friends he would try his best to exclude me. When we shared a flat in our twenties he would steal my things and open my mail. If I was having a difficult time he always seemed to find a way to make it worse.

NC was hard (and it was pretty much total except on the rare occasions I saw him at my parents), not least because he was always trying to show my parents that he was making an effort (he wasn't at all) and looking for ways to make me out to be the bad guy. My mother's response was generally 'I'm not getting involved', though he often did things like leaving birthday/xmas gifts with her to pass on to me, which obviously I wouldn't accept.

I re-started contact with him last year, partly because we had to discuss/deal with my dad's illness and partly so I could see my nephew. That 10 years has made a huge difference. I can now 'see him coming' IYSIM and no longer come away feeling so bad about myself. If he starts with the put downs and insults I just ignore him and he doesn't like it one bit! I'm also now much better able to challenge him. I wouldn't say he now treats me with respect but he is more wary with me than he was.

I've just floated away from mine. They weren't abusive as such, so I haven't needed to cut all ties as some people do. I find that, if I forget to return their calls & texts, and keep myself very boring when we do speak, they lose interest. They get in touch when it suits them - Christmas, mainly, for the obligatory family charade - but they're quite nice then as they want something.

I did have a hard time in my head: I had to lose the fictional close family I always thought I had - but, in reality, there was no relationship to change! The one exception was my mum, whom I had to 'train' by being rigidly standoffish. That took four months and now she's manageable

I'm aware of several people on these boards, whose siblings are monstrous and needed to be completely cut away, as it were. That takes ruthless regidity, sometimes with police help, and an eventual house move so they've got no way to find you. I hope your situation isn't that bad but, if it is, you might like to know the posters I'm referring to are much happier now!

Oberon and garlic, I really appreciate your comments - there are so many similarities with both of you. My brother excels at 'delegating' - he assumes people will do stuff for him all the time, stuff I not only wouldn't dream of asking from others but would think you should assume to do for yourself. He really kicks off if you say no too, so people either do it (parents) , or stay away from him (me).

He's truly the 'loudest voice' in my family and don't think it's good for anyone else except for him. It's such a strange relationship, i know he kind of respects me in that I'm pretty smart and he likes to put people down/be the best/smartest/most dominating, but I just don't like him or how he talks to or about other people, especially people in our immediate family.

What's soooo annoying is the fact that on paper he should be a great guy - clever, motivated, successful, good looking, terrific family (kids, wife etc) but all through my life I'd had to deal with people saying 'your brother's a bit of an areshole/handful' isn't he?' and I feel compelled to defend him, even though they're right and he's often treated me like shit.

Hi googietheegg, was just wondering if you'd come to any conclusion?

I can say that having no contact with my brother for those years, though very difficult, did me a world of good. Being back in contact with him was kind of forced on me by circumstances. He hasn't changed at all but my responses to him definitely have. I'm even able to now deal with my mother who 'won't get involved' but actually does. Oddly, she complains about him to me all the time but never challenges him directly.

I've met a few people with problem siblings over the years and it seems to be a common feature that family/friends revolve around them. And my brother is a past master at 'delegating'. Interestingly I've recently been reading a book about abusive partners, mostly because of my last relationship, but it's been incredible how much of the described behaviour could relate to my brother. Even his 'best friend' of over 30 years, also a good friend of mine, is getting fed up!

Thanks for asking oberon (great name!) I'm still not really sure what to do. He keeps texting me about random stuff still, but no mention of the fact that he absolutely blew up at me on the phone because I said no to a HUGE favour he asked of me last time we spoke and I put the phone down on him mid rant when it was clear he wasn't stopping with the awful insults. I just haven't answered any of the texts and it's starting to creep me out a bit really.

I'm just going to leave it for a bit as we've just lost our first baby with a mmc and I can't be arsed with him. He didn't even know I was pregnant as he always has an opinion on everything ( he cannot believe that people don't want to hear his views on every possible detail of their lives).

I've realised how much of a power he has over the rest of my family, and how much he stops me from visiting my home town (I've moved abroad but practically all my friends and family live in my home town, where my brother also lives. But although he criticises everyone else that lives there as parochial, this of course does not apply to him. He actually described himself to me as 'a big fish in a big pond'. If this outs me to anyone, please either say nothing or PM me!!)

This is a really interesting post as I have just initiated nc and am being utterly bombarded. So good to hear that some people have done it and been able to maintain it and see as a positive - right now being hammered by relentlessly abusive "poor me" emails and texts and trying to just ignore but goodness it is hard not to give in to the temptation to start a row, which is what she wants.

Googie I am sorry to hear about your mmc - you definitely dont need to be bombarded with rubbish right now - I dont think you taking some time out for yourself and your partner is a bad thing at this point in time.

Hi googie, I'm sorry for what you're going through and it really sounds like you have other things on your mind.

Reading your last post the resemblance is uncanny. In fact someone once described my brother to me as 'a big fish in a small pond'. That's possibly why he moved back to our home town because in London he didn't feel he was anybody. It does still inhibit me from going back there sometimes (it's a small place). He gets very argumentative very quickly and he won't have it that I can have a different opinion to him, or even an opinion at all it sometimes seems. He knows everything and if anyone disagrees with him his next sentence will often begin with the words "what you've got to understand is ..."! If you disagree with him or say no to something he wants he can quickly descend to personal abuse.

He's never offered me any kind of support, and to be honest if he did I couldn't be confident that there wasn't something else behind it. Although I can cope with him much better now, and say no effectively and usually without him getting too offensive, it's still difficult. The truth is if it wasn't for my nephew I'd consider NC again. Curiously since we resumed contact last year he hasn't once asked me why I cut him off in the first place. It's as though he isn't bothered.

My own experience is that if someone won't stop being abusive towards you then there is only one way to go. Either choice won't be easy but for me NC enabled me to keep some sanity. In any case you always have the right to change your mind. Whichever way you go I hope it works out :)

I've had NC with my brother for 4 years. 7 years ago he split up with a long term partner, it was her house so he had nowhere to go. I was pregnant but I let him move in for a few months until the beginning of January, 4 weeks before my due date. I was having a Homebirth & the bedroom he was using was the nursery. I had 2 other children & he promised to help around the house, do his share of cooking & babysitting to help me out whilst heavily pregnant.

Bollocks! He spent all his time on my computer Internet dating, blocking the landline (before broadband!), never cooked or cleaned or paid for anything. 2 weeks before my due date I begged him to leave so I could prepare the nursery. Meanwhile he'd met a lovely girl online who within 2 months had persuaded to sell her house, move 100 miles & get engaged. He left & moved in with her (took me a week to clear the mess he'd left in the bedroom!!) & then within 6 months had decided she was too fat & dumped her for someone he'd been having an affair with at work. His fiancee had become a close friend of mine by then. She kicked him out quite rightly!! He then asked to move back into my house!!

Forward a couple of years, he forgets my kids birthdays, never visits unless he wants something & then the icing on the cake - he never replied to my wedding invitation!! Time to go for NC!! A relief!!

They just take & give nothing back - you don't need it, ESP if you've just had a miscarriage. Focus on your own little family who deserve you!

Yes, very low contact with sister; thought of reducing more.
Marking place, no time to read now.

Caught up...
Reading the "Why Does He Do That?" book by Lundy Bancroft reminded me every page of my sister.

She has to be superior period. I suspect npd, and codependency.

Anyway, if your brother is npd then I believe the foundation of dealing with him is to understand that he will never change. So you change how you deal with him, for which it sounds like you have an understanding. Good for you as it does take a lot to get to this point, doesn't it?

Whether you decide no contact or low contact, imho, I think it is a question of becoming emotionally detached. The interpersonal connection can be eroded to the point that you have no empathy, sympathy, or feeling for the person...as if they were a total stranger, or a nodding aquaintance (I think of a check out person at the grocery) that you can exchange a few superficial plesantries (never anything personal!) with then move on mentally as well as physically.

This detachment will allow you to choose to 'not listen' to him. I used to be horrorfied that people would blatantly not listen to another person talking to them, but the choice is there for a reason. If you don't want to put the phone down, (in your example it was the right thing to do), you could just start cleaning the kitchen floor, or do something else while he is talking 'at' you, because he certainly isn't talking 'to' you, iyswim. When he understands that you are not focusing on him, he should move on. This is something my sister would do to me, but when I did it to her- she was highly offended, of couse.

Try to get to the point where contact will produce a "So what" and no further detox session is needed.

For some circumstances, this is impossible-so the full no contact is justified. It is justified in the name of maintaining your mental health.