Anyone else have an uneasy relationship with their parents since they have had kids? Long and possibly tedious.

[arabella2]

It's like they don't quite know where they are in the general pecking order of things and have never quite got over not being fully in charge (as they were when me and my sister were young) anymore. What has triggered this post is that we are having a party for ds who is going to be 4 quite soon and my parents are coming over for it (they live abroad but rent a flat quite near where we live and come over often)... On the phone today my mother asked me all the following questions: did I have a hospital appointment yet (I am pregnant but a bit late getting started with the whole hospital thing as I couldn't get into the hospital I wanted), who is coming to the party, is such and such a person coming, if not then why not, do we want sweet things, she is going to help with the games... Re. the sweet things I said no thank you and she replied that I wouldn't be the only person there (!) - so why did she ask me then??? Re. the games I said I was organising them pass the parcel etc... and she said in a bored tone (ie. I've done it all before and I'm the best) "the usual party games then"... Re. the food I said I was doing the kiddy food and cake - they will bring some stuff for the adults... But at the end of the conversation I was left with the usual confrontational feeling. She normally brings over loads of biscuits for us when she comes and I sometimes tell her not to because I end up eating my way through them really quickly but she does not listen and acts offended. Surely if someone asks you what do you want and the other person says nothing and no biscuits please (actually I think I said one pack) there is no need to get offended?
Also, and this grates the most - if I tell her anything about the kids she never really steps off her pedestal and just listens - after all I am their mother and I am with them all the time. She is the GRANDMOTHER and nobody can really tell her anything about her grandchildren unless my Dad or my sister whom she dotes on but also controls.
So we are often at loggerheads albeit under the surface - she is a very bossy controlling kind of person and has always been like that and recently, though both my parents are nice to the kids and it's great that they have them (my kids have my parents as grandparents I mean), their kind of bossy nature is getting on my nerves more. She gets annoyed by the fact that ds never stays the night at their flat as she has this friend whose grandson spends up to 6 weeks on holiday with them every year, but this grandson also has two parents who don't really seem to care that they don't see their son for 6 weeks in a row and are very career and themselves oriented. My parents are meat eaters and we don't feel that especially my Dad would respect our vegetarianism if my son were to stay overnight with them and I think this is the main reason such a thing has not happened yet. This and the fact that ds has never stayed the night anywhere else and I don't think he would at this point. I breastfed both my ds and dd until quite late (ds was over 2 and dd is just stopping now at 19 months) and this is one of the reasons also why they don't spend the night elsewhere. Last time or the time before last when she was here, Mum was going on about how if I had stopped at 6 months then things would be different. Maybe I am overreacting but I think this is just plain rude, it is absolutely nobody elses business this kind of thing. Also in another conversation my sister and my mother once had with dh, dh was saying how he thought ultimately "Mummy" is important and they both piped up with - yes with breastmilk up until 6 months...
I don't have this with anybody else, but where my parents are concerned the thought of my children's birth pops into my head - sorry to be graphic and TMI but the crowning head and how much it hurt and what an emotional thing it was - and surely there is a reason for this to be popping into my head only with them - I think they cross boundaries. My MIL is very much my kids' grandmother and can be bossy in terms of telling you what she thinks they need especially when they are young, but I never have (at least up until now) thoughts of crowning heads with her - ie. these are OUR babies and not yours. They see a lot of my kids when they are here - they come over to our house and go in the garden and to the park... and that's great. I know grandchildren need their own private relationship with their grandparents and I think both my kids are developing that, I just don't like my bossy know everything parents. Another example of the subterranean tussle going on is when, shortly after dd was born and ds was about 2.5, we all went together to a children's farm. My parents took ds away to show him one thing and never came back - we went looking for them everywhere but they had ended up taking them on a complete tour by themselves without telling us. They wanted him to themselves and we could b**r off as far as they were concerned.
My mother also has a very nice giving side but I'm afraid I find her overwhelmingness too much. Also, and maybe I should not have written this last, she is having chemotherapy and has been ill for a while now so in a way she is altered because of it and so is our relationship. Please tell me if you think I am being childish because it is possible that I am. But defintely I think my parents are controlling types who contributed to making me as shy as I am today.

Your parents sound like mine. My mum is the worlds authority on little children- or so she thinks- and I had years and years of criticism. Like you, we are vegetarian and my parents aren't and we did have a huge struggle in the beginning until the children were old enough to argue! My dad would often try to sneak them meat just because he knew we didn't allow it. We also had rows over sweets because I have such a sweet tooth that I wanted to avoid it with my kids. I was 'cruel' not to allow them sweets (as a 12 month old baby) and out would come the Smarties as soon as my back was turned.

No advice really except that it will eat you up if you let it. You have to make a decision now to either stand up to them (hard I know, especially with your mum being ill) or leave it and be prepared for the battle to last until your kids are grown up. if you do that, try not to let it get to you.

My mum did a complete about-face once my children were teenagers, and spends every time she sees them telling me what a great job I did with them. When I needed the support she just used to criticise (her favourite comment was "you should never have had four children because you aren't calm enough" in front of the children).

arabella, I have also experienced many of the things you describe. I think that some parents do find it hard to let go, and they do like to maintain the illusion that they are the heads of the family long after their children are grown up. And they can behave in an incredibly childish way when the worm finally does turn.

It is very hard when you realise that your parents interests are different from yours, and that you have to oppose them sometimes. I dont think that you are being childish, but I admit, that I have never really figured out how to set the boundaries for my parents. On the occasions when I have told them that they are being out of order, it has gone in one ear and out of the other. They described my not obeying them as "behaving disgracefully" when I was 29 years old!

We have now more or less cut all connections, and I am obviously a very unsatisfactory daughter for them. I wish I could have spoken to them as normal reasonable people, but I couldn't. I think they were unable to alter their view of me as the child they had controlled for so long.

arabella phew that was long but imo I dont think you are being childish.
I am going to give my opinion as both a parent and a grandparent so bear with me babe

Sometimes parents and in-laws can be a bit too opinionated and controlling but as you and your dh are the parents it is your decision in the long run.

dont be pressurised into anything else
you can do this either subtley or stand up to them
but imo it sounds like you have done this subtley but I would not have a blazing row iykwim

my parents and in-laws have said and done things that I have felt were out of order and I have tackled them and then regretted it sometimes, other times felt justified.

but

as a grandmother with a granddaughter who lives abroad (she came over this week and I have only spent 2 full days with her) I took over at every given opportunity and left dd1 in bed and had lovely morning with gdd and a day with her last sunday. Dd1 didnt seem to mind, but maybe she did, I dont know but I hope I have the relationship with my dd that if I became too controlling she would tell me to back off and I would respect her wishes.But because i dont see much of gdd I just hog her which I think your parents are doing and it is for only for these
love and time that is so precious.

I can understand both sides here
being a grandparent is so different as you dont have much of the responsilbility but you have the fun times when you can be with them, they are an extension of your children
also
maybe your parents cant see you as being independent(even though you are) as we still like to think that you still need us, even when you dont.

I know I am being hypocritical in my post but just trying to explain both sides.
Hope it all works out ok for you
xxx

i think that when our parents look at us, they don't see us as we are today - adults running our own lives with families of our own - but as their babies. i think that the change in relationship from parent and dependant child to parent and adult offspring can be a hard one on both sides. i know that i am somehow more childlike with my parents (i feel about 12 when i am with them!)

i think it takes effort and understanding on both sides to make the changes required. for parents to take that step backwards and for the offspring to establish themselves as adults within the relationship.

there really isnt anything you can do to 'change' somebody else. all you can do is be firm on those things that matter to you. when in comes to your kids, be clear to your parents what the rules are (eg no meat, or no nipping off with the kids while on a day trip, and so on and so forth) and also what will happen if the rules are not adhered to. (eg if you have said no sweets when you visit them and they give sweets anyway you will not allow the children to eat them / you will leave). Do not make empty threats - if you say it be prepared to do it.

Also though, you have to remember that they do have more experience than you - life in general and parenting in particular. that doesnt mean that they know everything and you know nothing, but it does mean that maybe they have insights that could be of use, or have encountered and dealt with things that you havent. they may yet have things to teach you! I dont mean accept and obey, but it is always worth listening, we can always benefit from someone with experience! They may feel better if they know they are still useful in your life.

Ultimatly, your children are your responsibility and your parents need to be made to understand that. let them know that you are a good parent and they contributed to that in the way that they raised you. But let them know that their role now is not one of active parenting and decision making, but of supporting your choices and decisions as regards your children.

I think all you can do is give them the very clear message that you are an independant adult and while their support is invaluable, you make the decisions regarding your children, which they do not undermine. the choice is theirs whether to accept a role in your family on your terms, or to step aside.

Thank you for your very kind and thoughtful messages. I feel a little guilty because my parents are not naughty parents in that they would never do the giving of sweets behind my back thing etc... but I think they think they know better about everything. My Mum would not give ds meat (anyway ds now would refuse any such thing but dd would not be able to as she would not know what it is) but I'm really not sure about my Dad. When ds was a small baby he used to say to him things like "what you need is a sausage!" in jest (haha like we thought it was funny) until I think my Mum must have told him to stop it. Then the other month we were in a cafeteria together, me, my kids and my Mum and Dad and my parents were eating battered fish... ds looked at the fish (having no idea what it was, the batter just looked attractive) and said he wanted that. My Dad looked significantly at my Mum and said (ignoring me) "he wants it!"... Ie. daughter and husband might be bonkers but grandson will turn out not to be.
I think I am being unfair in a way because really they have done their best to support me and they are nice grandparents and of course they want to spend time with them (thank you for grandparents' viewpoint doormat, I think it is hard for us only parents to understand grandparents' level of devotion). Just they seem to be getting a little more intransigent with age and I don't think either of them respect me in the same way they respect each other. Eg. they sometimes wipe my kids's hands with the kitchen cloth - I have told them not to do this as I find this disgusting, but they then do it again another time. Why??? My Dad is the kind of person who is always right and that drives me up the wall. I think these things got subtly worse after I went to spend almost 2 weeks with them at their home with the kids but without dh when my morning sickness was unbearable. Suddenly I was needing help and in their domain. I know, I'm clutching at straws here... I think I find it hard to talk to them as any opinion which is weird for them they tend to brush aside and as a result I kind of bottle things up but then do come out with aggressive outbursts (not necessarily in relation to the kids) which they find upsetting and which they cannot understand. One such occasion was when I was driving with both kids and them in the car (again no dh, it would help if he were around more!) and dd was crying in her seat. I looked around quite a few times which I am used to doing and I do when I know the road allows me to. They were ordering me not to look round and in the meantime trying to comfort dd as if they were the only people in her life. I reacted quite bluntly with my Dad and my Mum said "DON'T BE RUDE TO YOUR FATHER" in such a way that brought me straight back to some of the humiliation of being a child so I'm afraid I was verbally quite aggressive to her at that point as I really cannot see how they could allow themselves to talk to someone with greying hair and who is 36 bloody years old in that way.... How do you ever grow up if your parents remain so intransigent in their way of thinking. The thing is, I know we all think we are going to do better than our parents, but I could never be like that with my own kids - thinking they are one of my limbs and without me they wouldn't be here therefore they will always be part of MY FAMILY and never really their own person. I fully expect them to grow up and leave the home and do what they like and even maybe not want to have contact if they don't want to. Already now I think they are wiser and funnier and kinder than dh and I are managing to be at the moment. I don't think such a thought would ever have crossed my parents' heads. They were kind and loving and my mother can be incredibly nice, but I think they were too strict and my Dad always thought you could do better and never validated your point of view. With regards to the grandchildren I think the thought in their heads is as follows: without us our daughter would not be here therefore any offspring of hers is by rights ours as well. With MIL (who is veggie by the way) I think the thought is a much kinder one: my son has 2 children, I am therefore their grandmother and therefore I do and will love them loads. I prefer her way of thinking. My parents' way of thinking does not take into account the fact that my kids are the produce of somebody else's love story (a long time ago when ds was a baby and dd was not yet there I went to a park with my parents and ds and I think my Mum must have been pushing the buggy, my Dad, again ignoring me, said "do you think people will think he is yours???" - to her credit she poohpoohed this idea) and not their own. Maybe this is not fair, I just soon feel overwhelmed by them and I guess they are waiting in the wings to see what physical characteristics of theirs this new baby will have... Anyway, this post even longer and more tedious than the last! Tallulah' I'm sorry your mother was so disrespectful to you. Are your kids still vegetarian? Nightynight, I can relate to that unsatisfactory daughter feeling as I have it too sometimes though we are in touch and see each other. My sister talks on the phone to my parents several times a day even though she lives very far away from them and is very affectionate but also still calls them Mummy and Daddy and acts chidishly with them... in contrast I must me like the sphinx. My Mum refers to my Dad to me as Daddy and I must confess every time she does that I think she is talking about my dh as the "Daddy" in my life is my kids' father. My Dad is Dad and that's it. Anyway I am ranting and raving now. Thanks also for your interesting post mytwopenceworth. It sounds very grown up and mature and like something I should be aspiring to!!

hi (I haven't posted on this board before but this message caught my eye) arabella I so know how you feel

My mother has been driving me bonkers since the birth of ds (now 20 months). A woman who was cronicly depressed, cold and bitter throughout my childhood has now remodelled herself as a doting grandmother. Which is fine - however I do believe you have to make a stand and be firm about the things that you see important. Such as, not giving your child meat. I have issues with my mother putting salt in ds's meals (despite having been told several times), dressing him too warm (my mother wails and laments how my poor son is always freezing to death - one of many ways his feckless mother, ie. me, is apparently torturing him . That in addition to giving him tasteless food), force feeding him, fussing over him at bedtime and not letting him settle himself - all things that I have outlined very clearly. Plus, get this - my mother has now several times accidentally referred to herself as 'mummy' (as in 'mummy is going to get the ball for you) and I have almost screamed YOU ARE NOT HIS MUMMY!!!! FFS! She is harassing me on the phone about wanting ds to go spend time at their house (in another country...) but on his own as in 'I don't need to see you but I want my grandson to come see his grandmother'. I want my ds to have contact with his maternal grandmother but at the same time I need my sanity.

I think our responsibility as adults is to let go of the past and see our parents as other adults, without the emotional drama that we all have as part of that complex relationship. However, if someone that was not a family member behaved like that, would any of you care to spend any effort accommodating her - no way! Tricky. I think I'll just screen my calls for the next few weeks...
x

Sounds like my parents too. Mytwopenceworth covered my thoughts on it perfectly so i wont repeat.

but will say that my mother acting "devils advocate" on every decision i make does grate tremendously.

To be fair, she did say once that the only thing she thought i did wrong with my kids was not drying between their toes after a bath - she thinks thats mean!

I dreaded leaving my two with her the first time to babysit because she regularly tells with glee the story of when she babysat her twin neice and nephew and they wouldnt sleep so she slipped them some brandy in their bottles and has never owned up to her sister about it and knows how much her sister abhors alcohol.

Hi everyone, sorry mine is long & tedious too! ...I'm so happy to have come across this thread because I've had issues with my mum too, but they are so subtle that it has been hard to put it into words. Previously I have really looked up to my mum a lot, thought she could do no wrong, etc, and part of that might be down to the fact that she comes across like only she is right. She is nowhere near as controlling as your mum arabella, but I can relate to some of what you say. I think my mum is aware enough of herself to back off, but it doesn't stop her making comments that allow me to know exactly what she thinks. Luckily she also tells me well done etc too.

I think having a baby made me realise that my mum is far from perfect, and that my childhood/my relationship with her as a child was far from perfect. Having a baby makes you think about your childhood and what you would & wouldn't do, and I think in my case I found that there were a lot of hidden resentments in me about my mum. For example, she is always so connected with how dd is feeling, and because dd was always quite clingy & insecure, it really GOT to me that my mum would take that on herself, iykwim, ie not giving dd room to work herself out of it...don't know if I'm making sense. I think I always wonder if that is how she was with me and connect it to my own issues in a way. And, my mum didn't look after dd by herself until pretty late. I'm a single mum and was desperate for some time to myself in dd's babyhood but (and I know partly cos she was breastfed it must've been a scary idea) my mum refused, in a very passive avoiding sort of way. So, I'm the opposite to a couple of you whose parents completely take over and disappear with the grandchildren - I'd love that to happen more often!! At the same time I HATE having to depend on my parents for anything cos I want to be a fully independent and grown up person! (Which may be why it doesn't happen as often as I'd like, cos I hate having to ask for help!)

Also resonated with something someone else said about their mum wanting to spend time only with the grandchildren. I feel like that sometimes. My time with my parents has completely changed, it's dd focused all the time. We stay over nearly once a week, and the evening I'm there they disappear to the computers or whatever, no social time with me unless someone cooks dinner for us all... my sister & her boyfriend go over frequently and have dinner & socialise etc, but as I said, my time with them is very dd focused.

But I have to say, I always feel very guilty feeling grouchy about them because generally they have been fantastic... In conclusion, Arabella, I don't think you are being childish! Your parents sounds insufferable compared to mine! I would say, though, that you just have to let it wash over you and remind yourself: it IS my decision, my children, and not let their opinions bother you. It's about letting go of your upbringing and learning to trust yourself and not keep referring to your parents' way of doing things. I think I am aware of how imbedded that sort of thing is in me, I think I am always now, sometimes unconsciously, thinking of what my parents would think of a certain thing and then deciding whether or not to discard it.
I would also say that it is okay for your parents do stuff that you don't think is okay. You can't expect everyone in your dcs' lives to do everything your way. For example, my mum gives my dd more sweet things etc than I would myself, but I decide not to mind that as she is her grandmother and it is only when we see her... On the flip side, my parents never had a TV and dd watches a fair amount at home - my mum frequently tuts about that! The vegetarian thing is tricky though.

I think a lot of grandparents must find it hard to switch roles and let go. My mum totally ruined DD1?s 3rd bday party by taking it over, running party games, even making one child cry by telling them off too harshly for cheating at pass the parcel!!
DH was fuming that she was even there let alone taking over which made me even more miserable. WHy can?t families just evolve, adapt and be more sensitive to the other family members changing needs?
My dad has coped better. He now calls my mum by her maiden name to my siblings and me, which is nice. It is his little way at trying to treat us like adults. How come he can make such a great job of backing me up with the children without interferring and yet my mum, who I am closer to really, makes such a frustrating hash of it!!

I think understanding why parents find it hard to be grandparents and parents of adults instead of children helps to make it more bearable. Don?t think there are many solutions, just one of those nitty gritty rl issues that is all too common I think.

I'm having further thoughts, I'm on a roll...
My mum is very different actually from yours arabella. Fundamentally, though she might not be aware of this, I think she thinks the wider world isn't "safe". They never had a telly, look down on it to be frank. My mum didn't work till I was about 8-10yr old. I think she thinks that I am the only person who should be in dd's life, at least in a big way. I can't remember how old dd was, under a year I think, still breast fed, I suggested my mum have her for a couple of hours or something (a desperate attempt by me to try and break dd's clinginess and to teach her other people can look after her too, and being a single mum I felt that was VERY important. My mum was the only person I felt i could ask. I was upset when she said no cos I felt there was nowhere I could turn to help dd. Also of course for a break!) and my mum said "She only needs to be with her mummy at the moment!" It REALLY stuck in my throat, maybe because it affected me when a child, that attitude, too. Also, my dad goes on about when dd starts school, how awful it all is and how she'll come into contact with horrible children & bad influences etc etc. Partly true I'm sure, but I have realised that I think as a child i was (subtly) taught that the world isn't safe, that we don't really belong in it, and in fact now I have a child i am now trying to create a new attitude to the world, both for myself and for dd. I realised I've always felt slightly guilty for e.g. enjoying silly TV progs etc, not being interested enough in current affairs & politics, not doing enough charity wise etc, so I am now chilling out about that, and I'm not gonna be terrified about dd's exposure to "bad influences"!

I have to say it is so weird cos the general belief is that a child is better off in its first few years being at home with mum, mothers are criticised a lot for going back to work. But it didn't work for me (as in my mum staying home) - I am a SAHM but looking to go back to work part time, as I feel dd is ready for it and it would be very good for her. My mum is supportive, but her comments "But she's doing very well with you!" speak volumes about what she really thinks as far as I'm concerned. Plus, the ironic thing is, I don't really remember much real QUALITY time spent with her, just her being in the house, she was actually quite distant so her very connected attitude to dd makes me wonder.... (i don't know i'm so confused, sorry everyone!!)

It just occurred to me, I wonder if grandparents ever feel that their children's deviations from their way of parenting say anything about how their children feel about their upbringing? Doormat? It doesn't always btw - simple things like healthy eating, bedtimes, etc don't necessarily, but there is an element of truth sometimes in that! My decision to go back to work is based both on my instincts about dd's needs, but also underneath is also a view of what my mum should've done differently...

Sorry just read your post Firework, that's funny about your dad calling your mum by her maiden name. My mum does that with me about my dad sometimes and it actually really p's me off, cos I feel like she's forgotten who I am! I think she actually does it without thinking, but maybe because as you say she does see me as another adult now so that's what comes naturally to her...She also talks more openly now about what annoys her about my dad, and what annoyed her in the past about him too...I don't mind that actually, it gives me a bit of insight!
but maybe that's why I have a problem with her? Going back to proper time with my parents, it being dd focused etc, maybe I am a little bit jealous? I have a younger sister so perhaps I am unconsciously re-experiencing someone else coming into my mum's life!!
hmmm...have to think on that one!!

Lizita, how poignant your comments were - you hit a nail there. I have noticed that since becoming a mother myself, I have made connections to my own childhood, and realise things about my mother that I would not have been able to understand before ds arrived. I realise she must have suffered pretty badly from PND, and been horribly lonely in the middle of nowhere in a new town and new marriage. Maybe she even wants to make up for something she feels she could have done differently, maybe she even thinks that grandchildren are her 'second chance'? Perhaps our generation has evolved in that in general we are more capable of empathy - being willing to grant it to our parents even though we did not receive it ourselves when growing up. That is why I grit my teeth through her non-stop commentary about my parenting choices, although I think we are heading towards a showdown. I don't want to break her heart, but I need to establish boundaries.

It's weird, how you realise things that you always took for granted before. Like, when I was about 10 me & my sister spent a lot of time playing with other children in the street. At the weekends me & my sister would get so frustrated cos our street friends would be off somewhere with their parents so we'd be stuck at home without them (our friends I mean). It's only since having dd that I've thought, wow, our parents really didn't make that effort to spend time together with us, as a family! (You know progs like Wife Swap have made me realise this too!) I am determined to do the opposite with dd (well, within reason, I want her to have a bit of inependence too!!).