Abuse & Rape - Sensitive

[SequinsAndSparkles]

I did post this on chat, but was advised that I might get more helpful responses here.

I hope I don't upset anybody. I'm just trying to make sense of something.

All of this today with Ken Clarke hit a sore spot for me. I was abused as a child, and was raped by my boyfriend when I was 17.

I had a brief amount of counselling for this, but found it unsuccessful and so didn't continue with it. But one of the things the counsellor said always made me think, and I wish I had questioned it at the time. She said to me that she often sees patients who have been sexually abused as a child, who have gone on to suffer similar abuse as an adult, and found themselves in several abusive relationships. I never asked why that would be, but I find myself asking now, why that is?

I am married now, to a lovely man. I believe I managed to break the chain. But whilst I confide in DH about my childhood abuse, I have never told him about what happened to me when I was 17. I don't know why, I didn't tell anybody. I guess it's because I worry it would seem unrealistic that I would have gone through that as a child, and also been through rape later in life. If I could understand what the counsellor meant by the pattern/chain of abuse victims, I may feel more confident in discussing it.

I hope this makes sense. Perhaps my counsellor was talking rubbish, but I'd be interested to know if anybody could shed any light on this.

Again, really sorry if I have upset anybody with this thread.

I think it's because when you are exposed to something like that in your formative years it can affect how you view relationships. Your sense of right and wrong or what is 'normal' can be skewed, therefore it is difficult not to simply accept harmful relationships later in life.

I was abused/taken advantage of by men in positions of power over me as a young teenager. That conditioned me to believe that someone paying me attention should be rewarded by getting something sexual from me in return. My ideas of love and sex and friendship were damaged by those early experiences and as such I wasn't in a position to understand that such relationships weren't healthy. It took a concerted effort through counselling for me to be able to view things differently and get a sense of self-worth that wasn't dependent on whether I pleased someone sexually. I did realise that what I had gone through as a schoolgirl wasn't right or acceptable but I actually put up with a lot of shit from later boyfriends because it wasn't as bad as what happened to me as a kid therefore I didn't see it as being unacceptable.

Not sure if that makes any sense ...

I had a similar experience of childhood abuse and them getting into a very abusive relationship.

In my case the catalyst for both was need for acceptance/affection. My mum had very bad PND that she failed to accept and treat it (not slagging my dad, he was there and good, love him, but as a kid I wanted my mummy y'know). So my relative managed quite well to manipulate me. Then I was a victim and the family pushed it all under the rug in (to me) a horrible way and that made me feel even more of an outsider and put me again in the position to be manipulated.

It seems really horrible to say, but the reasons it is likely to occur again is fear or like with me that the fact it has happened makes you more vunerable and predators seek out easy targets, people they can scare or manipulate easier than someone with a strong sense of self and self worth.

Does that make any more sense? i have to say I'm not a huge fan of counsellors myself, but in this case my own experience tells me theres truth in it. And in regards Mr Clarke... typical male response, ignore it hes an ignorant twonk who cant comprehend it. Unfortunatly my nice side hopes he never has to (my vicious side thinks elsewise... and that he needs to be strung up by his ankles ;) )

Sometimes people follow abusive relationship patterns because they feel that is all they are worth, that no one worthy or decent would want them, so theoretically they settled.

Thankyou for the answers. Yeah I totally get that, and it makes sense to me. The guy who raped me, when I was 17, had actually bullied me all through school. Then when I was 16, and we'd left school, he began to be incredibly nice to me. And stupidly, I was flattered I was relieved that I must have finally changed into somebody who he didn't want to bully, but who he liked. But once we were together, things started to change, he became very controlling, very critical of me and would try and stop me from seeing family and friends. He would drive me to and from college so that I couldn't spend time with anybody. And then one day, instead of driving me home, he drove me to the middle of nowhere, and he raped me. I have a scar, that he gave me. But after that, I left him. I was strong enough to leave him, I was strong enough to play it down when he was leaving me abusive messages, following me home from work. He then moved away from our local town.

But it bothers me, all the time. I am angry at myself, for being so stupid in the first place. I am angry because when he was being so vile to me, my friends turned their backs on me, they couldn't understand. I don't blame them, they were 17. But I never told anybody, I felt like nobody would believe me, or those that did would see it coming.

I can ignore it for the most part, but sometimes, when the topic comes up. It's so painful. I feel so angry, that despite only being 22 I feel like I've had to handle a lifetime of pain, which started when I was 4 years old.

Reading your posts, I see now that he must have seen how weak I was. I mean, I let him bully me for years - he made my life hell. And then the minute he started being nice to me, I lapped it up. How pathetic of me.

Hi Sequins

I'm so sorry you have been through such a terrible time.

I wish you could read your post as an outsider looking in and see just how much you appear to be blaming yourself for those horrific things that happened to you.

I think, in these situations it is easy to blame yourself or at least search within yourself and direct the blame and anger inwards. You truly need to absolve yourself from any blame whatsoever, it wasn't your fault. Are you worried what your boyfriend will think of you if you told him? Again, if so, this is common to feel like this. But you did nothing wrong.

I don't know what else to say apart from could you work through the anger with a different counsellor? It may help you absolve yourself from feeling responsible in some way. Do you have anybody else in real life to talk to about this?

Thankyou for your post Nicole

I guess I worry about telling my DH, because he has already supported me through so much. He knows about my childhood abuse, he has supported me when I was in hospital with a serious illness, when I was mugged, all of those things. Sometimes, I look at my life, and even I can't take in everything that has happened. I worry that he would doubt me, or be like 'Oh god, not something else'. It might not make sense, bu that's just how I feel. I get so angry with myself, because I just feel like I've got 'Victim' across my forehead. It has made me fiesty in a lot of ways though, especially when it comes to my daughter, I seem to take on a different personality when I deal with my daughter. She's 2, and for me she was the start of a new, pain free life. Most of the time I can keep the things that happened to me in the past. But then I have days like today, when I just feel so sad. I just feel tired.

I do blame myself, to an extent, for what happened when I was 17. Because I look back, and can't believe how stupid I was, being flattered that he'd stopped bullying me FGS. How pathetic is that?

Also sorry to hear, you are an extremely brave survivor.

If it keeps coming up for you then maybe it is something that you could do with fronting even if it will feel hard and raw again working through it may be worth it in the long run?. If it was me I would be sorely tempted to get the support of you other half. You speak so highly of him and if he was supportive over the child abuse he is likely to be understanding about this too.

I hope whatever you choose to do you get to put this to rest at some point soon x

you dont have victim stamped on your head! and he wont doubt you, if i listed all the stuff happened to me that my DH has had to believe, well...

And dont blame yourself, it wasn't something you were party to. The relative who abused me as a teenager stopped bullying me and started being nice to me, and I couldnt see through someone I had been close to my whole life, why should you be able to see through someone you knew in school? Own it, yes it absolutely positively sucked ass but it also made you the fab person you are that your DH loves to bits (i hope). And if DH knows all, like mine, when you feel shit he knows why and (in my case) knows to bring home the ben and jerrys

Oh and rust me, where ever he is now someone knows hes a nasty little ratbag and hes getting his. My gran (who knows nothing) told my mum last week the only one of her decendants she is ashamed of is my abuser, and thats just on the face he shows. Made my year cos god knows I thought I was the family fuckup black sheep

Gosh, you are all so nice, thankyou.

The thing is, people always say how cheerful and carefree I am. Which is funny really, I have become an absolute pro at putting on a brave face. I don't really think my friends would have any idea of the things I've been through, because really, they don't know that much about me. My mum always says it makes her so sad that I don't let my friends get too close to me. But if people really think I am so cheerful, they might not believe me? They might think that surely nobody is that good at pretending. But I've been doing it from an early age.

When I was abused when I was little, I was told by the abuser repeatedly, not to tell anybody because they wouldn't believe me, and they'd send me away. He moved on to telling me that if I did tell anybody, he'd make my mum 'very ill until I couldn't see her anymore'. I have been frightened my whole life. Even after my mum found out, and got rid of him. My whole life all I have felt is just a general fear.

I'm rambling, aren't I?

Sometimes it just feels all too much, I wish I could erase all of the bad things from my memory.

Thankyou so much for speaking to me. Really, thankyou.

I totally get the blaming yourself thing. I did that for years. I felt it was my own bad decisions or stupidity that led to me being used. I was a teenager, not a little child, and there was no violence, so that meant I had wanted it or at least that I could've stopped it and failed. I'm 26 now and it's only after several failed attempts at counselling/therapy that I happened to find the right counsellor to help me through it. He was the first person to suggest that in order to feel happy despite my past was to forgive myself (not the abusers) for what had happened.

Looking back now as an adult (17 is still pretty much a child imo) and a mother do you think you are that same person, the 'victim'? If a friend or even say someone on here told your story as their own would you think it was their fault? I doubt that. You weren't in control if what happened to you and you weren't to blame. You were hurt but you have grown into a strong woman with a positive relationship and a daughter. You mentioned breaking the chain of abuse and that is something you've managed on your own and should be proud of and draw strength from when you do feel down.

Sequins You are not rambling! Everything you are feeling/saying makes sense in the world that you experienced. Thinking patterns and responses are made up from our experiences in life. You had a terrible, terrible experience and as a child, how on earth could you process that?

The only way a child knows how, ends up with them turning it inward. Feeling the shame that it was somehow your fault, when consciously you know it wasn't. You become extra vigilant, sometimes without realising it. But at the same time, wanting to be accepted and feel loveable.

Why is it so shitty to want someone to like you? The guy who turned on you when you were 17, well God knows what was going on in his brain, apart from being one sick individual. But again, the pattern seems to be turning it inward and blaming yourself. It really is not your fault.

I understand the feeling of just wanting to erase things. If only eh?! Unfortunetly, sometimes we need to go through stuff in order to be free of the attached emotions and to be able to come out on the other side. It's clear you have your coping mechanisms (putting on a front/cheerfulness), but it also sounds like you have had enough of this being on the back burner, lurking, waiting until you feel a bit vulnerable before it rears it's ugly head to the surface again.

Have you thought about trying counselling again, with a view to expoloring absolving yourself and then building your self esteem? (would also help with the fear you mentioned).

Perhaps after that, if you still felt like you wanted to tell your DH, you may feel more confident in doing so?

Also, to answer the original question...patterns of behaviour can sometimes happen, in that it's possible adults may engage in abusive relationships because this is what they know, this is their 'normality' and also self esteem dictates what we believe about ourselves and how we should be treated etc.

It sounds to me like you have a major plus on your side, called resillience. You sound feisty and you sound like you want to change things. It's bloody scarey, but can only get better with the right support?

Good luck x

P.S. So sorry for my spelling errors, but hey, I'm still an ok person right?!

Again, thankyou for your responses.

I realise that I do need to begin the journey of properly working through the things that have happened to me, over the years. But sometimes I just feel like there is so much, how the hell do you know where to start? Do you just begin right at the start? It's hard because on the days when I let myself feel it all, it's absolutely overwhelming. It makes me feel angry, and it makes me sad for the little girl that I should have been.

Thankyou for the assurance that the things that happened to me weren't my fault. That's one of the things I struggle with most tbh, and I think that's what stops me from telling anybody. Because I blame myself.

Thankyou for saying that I sound strong and resillient, I think that I am these days. I don't feel that I'd ever let anything like that happen to me again, I just hate the way I have been shaped by those things. I hate how anxious I am, how my self esteem is none existent.

I just feel that everything is bursting to get out of my head now, that things need to be dealt with, if that makes sense.

Thankyou for being so lovely to me, you have no idea how much your posts have all helped already! Thankyou, it's so nice to hear kind words.

I am going to look into counselling, I think.

Sequins, please have a huge unmumsnetty hug.

I have had counselling on and off for the last few years to come to terms with my abysmal childhood and it's after-effects. Everyone I know sees me as a bubbly, bright, articulate, feisty woman, but underneath I am a crumbling mess of anxiety.

However, counselling has given me the tools to deal with this. It has been a life saver.

And no, no, no, never has any of this been your fault, ever, not for a second.

Thankyou Katie, that's nice to hear. I'm glad it's been helpful to you. It sounds very similar in the way that people view you!

Thankyou for your post. It's so nice to get some assurance from people who have been through similar things.

Appreciate the hug

My counsellor says I have developed a persona for public consumption that ensures I will never be hurt IYSWIM?

As much as I love DH, he hasn't a clue about my inner madness, mostly because I find it very hard to articulate how I feel. Talking to my counsellor seems to make me feel "lighter" and able to put things into a manageable perspective. It is also extremely difficult for me to talk to anyone I know about things, so an impartial outsider is a life-saver.

I get totally what you said about not wanting to appear more of a victim. That's me to a T. However, you are not a victim, you are a survivor and deserve huge credit for that.

Wow, so many similarities in what you've said. Can pretty much agree with all of that.

It's hard because I feel like I'd be making myself more vulnerable by telling people about things that have happened to me. But yes, an impartial outsider might be helpful this time round. I was maybe too young for it to be a success last time.

Just these past couple of days, having it more predominantly in my thoughts, I've felt so tired and hazy, feel like I've got a fog in my brain

Is there anybody else that could give me some advice? Feeling rather low

I don't have much in the way of advice as I'm not very knowledgeable on this, but I am here if you need to talk x

Sequins I was abused as a child and raped by a boyfriend when I was 16. I have lived in fear for most of my life too. I am on the verge of making a statement to the police. I just literally have to pluck up the courage. My life is in pieces at the moment and I am trying very hard to get better (depression).

I have had, and I am still having, lots of counselling and I can't believe how this abuse has blighted my life. I trust no-one, have no self worth, am unable to form friendships as I push people away and don't let them 'in,' or alternately I will over-share and send people running for the hills!

I have only had one abusive relationship, I seem to have broken the pattern by marrying a lovely man.

I think that the effects of abuse on a person are very visible to people who are domineering / controlling / violent / abusive. They sense almost instinctively that the abused person will 'accept' further abuse. A 'healthy' person would say 'don't treat me like that! How very dare you!' iykwim. An abused person will blame themselves (I wound him up, I provoked him) and absolve the abuser of responsibility.

They look for people with little or no self esteem. And let's face it there's plenty of us out there!

Sequins...you are not pathetic, you are not to blame, you are not weak.
You were the victim of a thief. As burglers steal possessions and murderers steal lives, so do child abusers steal childhood and trust and innocence. You were an innocent, trusting child and you fell victim to a thief.

How well you have coped with this, you are strong and courageous and have tremendous grit.

Often, a woman who was abused as a child, finds that the emotional pain and the trauma returns when she has a daughter of her own, particularly when that daughter is close to the age her mother was when the abuse started.

Please think about the counselling. A good counsellor will help you to work through your experiences and to move beyond them.