Ending an EA relationship - advice and support needed!

[basilboo]

I?ve decided enough is enough and I feel I?ve reached the end regarding my relationship. Its been a volatile 11 years, I?ve always known that it wasn?t ?right? and I?m pretty sure that my dp?s behaviour falls within the abuse spectrum. Not physical but emotional and mental. We?ve been to counselling ? both relate and private ? a couple of years ago. Relate left me confused and raw, the private counsellor told me to leave him which I intended to do but somehow got sucked back into cycle again. At the time I was exhausted with a full time job, very young children ? I was wrung out emotionally trying to make sense of the relationship dynamics and, although I wasn?t aware of it at the time, I was going through an early menopause.

Also, he is very convincing. Always makes me feel he is the one putting the effort into the relationship and that I am the one causing the problems. Arguments often result in me being told I?m selfish, cold, that everything is always about me. Very subtley disconnecting me from family and friends. My best friends have never liked him, my mother has his measure too, telling my sister it upsets her the way he talks to me. But my mum can be quite unreasonable/irrational in her behaviour and expectations too and he?s used this to back himself up ? dismissing her opinions as nonsense with lots of examples of her failings. Similarly with friends.

I?ve always been sensitive of other peoples feelings and eager to please I suppose. I think this is probably why I?ve tried to see things from his point of view and accepted my imperfections as being reason enough to give it another go and see if things can change, particularly as he?s always given a show of making a big effort himself. I am also quite strong and independent in many ways and have kept up friendships and family relationships so thought that I was able to retain myself in all this.

Recently several things have happened ? none of them major but in quite quick succession ? which have made me shut down towards him and start to plan an exit. I?ve told him his behaviour is unacceptable and he is in full on ?lets try and convince her she?s the one with the issues? mode. The things I have a problem with are nothing apparently, I?m imagining things. He is trying to tell me my memory of events is wrong and that it is my behaviour which is damaging. Again I start to doubt myself and seek validation. In fact, part of me is scared to put on here what the incidents have been for fear of being told not to be ridiculous and that I need to get a grip.

I know that the charm offensive will start soon ? and as life continues in the usual busy routine of juggling the children, work, home, etc him being lovely and helpful and sorry will wear me down. But I don?t want it to. What I want is some idea of how to keep hold of this indignation ? this sense of worth and self-respect ? and make things move forward in a way which means things will change and I?m not going to be back in this position in a year?s time.

I?ve read that with people like him the best thing to do is not engage ? not try to and explain yourself, not to get sucked into the ?let?s talk about this? thing. But that goes against my nature so much. And I feel it gives him more fuel to his argument ? that I?m selfish, unyielding, cold. One thing I?ve heard is to become as boring as possible whilst planning your exit strategy. I can?t just up and leave, if I ask him to he?ll just be ?oh here we go again? and be totally dismissive.

I suppose I want some advice from people who?ve been here ? and from those who recognise these dynamics in a relationship and can help give me some strength/insight/support. I intend to go to counselling on my own and have told him this but I?m not convinced that will help an awful lot after my previous experiences.

Sorry about all the ?s - copy and paste job from writing it first in word in case I lost it!

That trying to make out you're mad thing is called gaslighting and there's a lot of it about.

I found keeping a diary helped. My solicitor recommended it although I wasn't keen, it felt kind of like spying. (Later I found that XH had been keeping notes on me for 25 years - most of them inaccurate. Totally creeped me out.) As a result I have two years' worth of rather sketchy notes of how often we had arguments, times he let me down, agreements he went back on etc. Next time you start to doubt your memory, read back and there it is.

Also resist strongly any further attempts to isolate you from family and friends. The plan is to remove your reality check. Working may tire you out but it also brings you in contact with other people, none of whom will be perfect but many of whom will have a sound perspective. If you want to run something past them, do. Their reaction will tell you a lot. Of course your OH would have you believe this is disloyal.

Re the counselling: it is a well-known fact that couples counselling is a Bad Idea in an abuse situation. A skilled counsellor will detect it and refuse to counsel the couple. A less perceptive one may carry on trying to get the clients to work together on overcoming their mutual problems, never realising that all the problems are deliberately caused by one party, and even giving the abuser more fuel by exposing the abusee's weaknesses. Individual counselling won't have this unhealthy dynamic at all. I think you will probably benefit from it.

Re the not-engaging thing: I too am one who believes in the power of communication (for which read, I talk too much). For many years I didn't give up the hope that the light of sweet reason would illuminate his gloomy brain eventually. I could run rings round him in a fair debate, but somehow I never won an argument. You can't convince someone who refuses to hear what you're saying let alone acknowledge its validity. The problem was that even after I'd given up trying to convince him, I still had to engage because the DCs were listening and I didn't want them to take lack of challenge for agreement. So he would throw some wild accusation into the air and I would have to waste time and energy disproving it, when the sensible response would have been "You may say that, but I couldn't possibly comment" (to quote the classics). I did eventually find a chuckled "oh, what rubbish" was more effective than a half-hour refutation, but it didn't come naturally.

The bottom line is it doesn't matter if you prove anything to him or not. If you are not happy in a relationship, you aren't. It's no good saying you ought to be happy. You two are not a good fit together. Of course it's difficult when you have a young family, for both practical and emotional reasons, but it can be done. Just think to yourself that in a few years he will have driven you mad, then you won't be a good mother (something he is already telling you, I'll wager). Get out while you still have your marbles!

"I've read that with people like him the best thing to do is not engage ? not try to and explain yourself, not to get sucked into the 'let's talk about this? thing. But that goes against my nature so much."

OK, both of you actually..... the reason why they manage to keep hooking us back in is precisely because of this nature of ours! You got that?

There IS no reasoning your way out of this or back into that elusive and fictional happyland they sold us. It was a front!

If you haven't already read Why Does He Do That basilboo, I suggest that is your first move today, off to Amazon to get it ordered! It will tell you about the cycle of abuse and the phases, why these men do these things to us and also, most importantly, that none of it is our fault.

Basilboo, you are not mad, you are not going to go mad, not ever - your thoughts, feelings and instinct are as true as ever. Trust yourself, believe in yourself. Keep posting and we will help you do what needs to be done.

Annie is on the other side, as am I, it gets worse and worse before you leave, X had a list of my sins/offences apparently. I asked him how much paper he had, cos my list on HIM would run to quite a tome! When you do finally rid yourself of their lunacy, it feels so much better.

Thank you both of you for your replies - you talk a lot of sense and it's exactly what I need to hear.

Annie - the first counsellor we had initially said she wouldn't counsel him as the questionnaire I did at the start revealed him as abusive. He managed to talk her round though and she did see us both but it was a nightmare. She told me I was too sensitive and that I should try and to not let him affect me so much. Played right into his hands. At the time I WAS very sensitive but it was the effect of years of walking on eggshells, horrible arguments which escalated from the most mundane requests, hostile communications which had all made me incredibly sensitive. I could tell from a look what kind of mood he was in and what to expect.

The second one - found by him as she was a specialist sex therapist and as the problems with our sex life were, of course, all my fault (and still are apparently) he thought she might be able to 'fix' me. Thankfully she was brilliant, recognised that other issues had to be dealt with before getting onto the sex side but then when she found out the extent of them she refused to see us. The last thing she said to me was 'always, always trust your instincts'. He refused totally to believe the abuse label but said he realised he had some problems and he could see he's let me down at times. I was all fired up to leave but his mum died suddenly and I got drawn into it all again.

So here we are. Now I know more about it I know to hold back, not expect normal reactions from him. At one point I did kid myself that now I knew his measure I could handle it and just take the good from the relationship. What a daft thought that was. As you say Annie, we're not happy and HerHissyness, I realise that even the good bits are all part of the facade he's created to kid himself and the rest of the world that he's a great guy. In fact he'd even convince me for a while that abuse was too extreme a label for him and he always had my best interests at heart!

I will do counselling for myself. I've told him I'm going to do it - no reaction apart from asking why. I just said there were things I needed to sort out. Not sure how it's going to go, I haven't told him that for me it is over. Biding my time. How long did it take you both to get free? Did you have months of living in some horrible limbo? And how has it worked out maintaining some kind of relationship as parents of your children?

Will do lots more reading up - have read Lundy Bancroft back at the time when I was ready to leave before but lent it to a friend. Must get it back!

When I left XP I was stuck in limbo for 3 months where I had started to make plans to leave, but he didn't know. That was horrible, really hard, but I think in a way better (for me and DS) than if he did know we were leaving and had stepped up the abuse or tried to change my mind.

At first I just kept contact through a third party, then when he calmed down I got my phone back and let him text. He started to text a lot about DS and then get increasingly more aggressive if I didn't reply straight away. I think because I'd had some space from him I recognised this as a control thing rather than an actual concern for DS, so I texted saying "You are seeing DS on Saturday. Please don't text me again unless it is urgent." and I felt like a superbitch, but he stopped texting. I've always had a really strict policy of only practical conversations about DS, since then and also since I tried asking him not to give DS fruit shoot and undiluted ribena when he was only 16 months old, which he ignored, I just decided unless it's life or death (or DS is really upset etc) I would leave him to do things his way, and it's been fine generally. Lately though it seems as soon as anything else happens in his life he can't be bothered to see DS. Last time I heard from him was about 5 weeks ago and he told me he couldn't see DS for a couple of weeks because his head was a mess, and he hasn't seen him since.

If you want to have a read of the Narcissistic Personality Disorder thread that might be interesting to you as well.

How long? Depends how you count it. We courted for a year, then (despite the various incidents I would now recognise as red flags) got married, 23 years later I realised it was all over, then it took another 2 years to extricate myself from the marriage during which time we still shared a house (and "hell on earth" doesn't begin to describe that interlude). We were married just a few months short of 25 years. So 23, 25 or 26 years depending what you call "together". Divorce was finalised just over three years ago and I moved out about four months after that.

Fortunately three of our DCs were already semi-independent. There was a bit of a tussle over DS4, initially solved by agreeing to 50-50 residence (one week with each of us). We both lived near his school so the logistics were easy enough. Nowadays, though, he lives full time with me but sees his dad quite often on an ad hoc basis. He's nearly recovered from the experience.

Ah, another convert to the Church of Saint Lundy of Bancroft. Amazing book. They're all in there, aren't they?

I could have written your OP basilboo. In same position as you are almost to a T. Are you sure you're not me!
Its awful though and I get exactly how you feel.

I already have gone through the motions of telling him I feel I don't want to continue with the relationship. I even moved into the spare room. At first , as usual he got angry, then accusatory, then verbally abusive to defensive to blaming me. Now he is going through his perfect man phase again in an effort to prove me cold and uncaring again I guess. I feel like its a neverending groundhog day.

Only this evening I allowed myself to be hugged. Part of me wanted to be though , when he approached me I didn't move away. My head is so confused and messed up as it is. Its getting harder to end it the more that I want to if that makes sense. Sometime I just allow sex because I can't bear the thoughts of another huge fight when I refuse.
The sense of claustrophobia is intense and I get anxious and panicky.
Its like a form of torture feeling like this

TBH, life in Egypt was hour by hour torture. I pinned my hopes on getting back to UK and then it might be OK. I felt I owed him a chance to change back to acceptable/manageable control as opposed to despotic all consuming domination. For history's sake, for DS sake.

I came home with DS and 8m later X came over, from the airport it was clear he was keen to get right back in there telling me what to do and intimidating me.

But I'd found MN in that middle time.... OK I wasn't totally there yet, but well on the way. I knew that I had a right to be heard, to say NO and to decide what I wanted in life, after all I had been doing it all for the previous 8m.

Last straw was the telling my friend's H, that among other things, I was in a mental institute for FIVE years, in the hope he'd forbid his wife from being my friend. He totally humiliated me, himself tbh, and caused untold stress to my friend who couldn't sleep when she was told what X had said to her H.

No sex from then on. Oh he tried, but that was it. He left in mid-March, the limbo was hellish, the day he left a blur of bewildering head-games. I literally turned on my heels and left him at the side of the road at LHR terminal three.

DS asked me if Daddy ever hit me, I told him yes. I'm not going to cover for X again, why would I lie to DS, how will he learn to be a decent man if I teach him to believe the way his dad lives is acceptable.

On DS birthday, X went to see friends the night before, and didn't come back until late. never even rang him to say happy birthday. Typical; he can't handle anyone having any good feelings, any nice, he has to sulk or ruin it. Of course X was the host with the flaming most on the weekend for the party, and my face was a permanent in his direction and I was sure people would think, why is she so non-plussed with him, when he's getting stuck in etc. I never introduced him to anyone, no point. Didn't want him pissing them off, or embarrassing me. That's no life is it?

Breakfree - hope my dp isn't leading a double life - not content with making one woman's life a misery! Sadly, these arses seem only too common though, as I've found by reading these boards.

Totally get you regarding it getting harder the more you want to - and the anxious, panicky thing. And with the hug thing - my dp always goes through the same thing after arguments - always hostile to start with, trying to get me to admit my side in it, throws in a few damning personality insults and if I don't submit accuses me of being unable to work on the relationship. His last resort is always the hug - usually in the morning when he's calmed down. For him that's a sign of him being the grown up and able to forget, forgive and move on. By then often I feel I just want and end to the tension and give in but really the last thing I want is to have him anywhere near me. So I feel angry with myself and with him. God, it's a nightmare cycle isn't it? Hang on in there, keep looking to a better future and I'm with you, willing you on!

Hissy - god, I can't imagine what it must have been like so isolated in another country - and one with totally different culture. It's amazing what you've done. It makes me feel inspired as my situation hasn't anywhere near the practical problems that yours had. Thanks for sharing it. It shows how tough we have to be - and there lies part of the dilemma cos by being so tough we play up to cold, heartless bitch label. But I feel I'm over that now.

Last night dp told me he wasn't prepared to put up with my behaviour any more and that if I wanted to he would move out at the end of June. Hurray! I quietly said yes, that's a good idea. My joy was short lived though as this morning he tried the hugs again, the insults and it's clear he's going to do bugger all. He cannot comprehend what my problem is as he has done nothing at all apparently.

Broken record. We agreed you would leave at the end of June.

Don't let up on this, let him go. Insist on it.

I am 43 this year, I think when you ease yourself into your 40s, and realise what's important in life, that it's then you gain the truly marvellous point of view that means that you couldn't give a shit what anyone thinks of you. That you are making the right decisions, that you are not mad, that your DC are great, well brought up and thriving - all down to you - and this other person is the only one that is trying to ruin your day/week/month/life.

As Dr Phil says, the only thing worse than being in a bad marriage for 11 years, is being in one for 11 years and ONE DAY!

Another quote: The fear of suffering is worse than the actual suffering itself. - Paulo Coelho. This one is profound, this quote really resonated with me. It is SO true. I couldn't have seen it from within the situation itself though. You just have to trust me.

Remember your JOY at thinking you would finally be free, only for him to dash it the following day. That joy was yours, that bliss was yours and he tried to take it by going back on his word. Don't let him, keep at him.

Just got back from seeing 'Made in Dagenham' with a friend. Bleedin' brilliant! What a great film to see right now. Very empowering. Am sticking with it. His treatment of me has been appalling. He might not see that but I have a choice not to put up with it anymore. Thanks Hissy, I'm 43 and agree, if I can't trust myself and believe in myself now then I'm buggered. And yes, the quote is spot on. Another quote - this one from the film tonight 'What do you mean how will we cope? We're women. Now bugger off!'

'What do you mean how will we cope? We're women. Now bugger off!'

What a fantastic quote! I think MN should get permission to use it for a page banner.

XH was always on about leaving. Sometimes he was going to emigrate, sometimes he was going to "go off a high place" because he couldn't stand the aches and pains he got every winter. For the first few years I consoled him, for the next few I said "send us a postcard", and finally it was "would you like me to pay the fare?" Eventually, though, when he said the marriage was all over and I thoroughly agreed, he changed his mind and wasn't going to go anywhere. So I had to divorce the bugger and get the house sold instead. I wish they wouldn't make these promises...!

During this process he had a health check at the GP who pronounced him "fit as a fiddle" (XH kept saying - three or four times in a sentence - argh!). I said what did the dr say about the aches and pains? He said "what aches and pains?". (He also announced proudly that the dr had given him some Viagra. I told him most politely what he could do with it.)

he he he, you just reminded me annie, once X said I feel like buying a ticket back home.

I said "Make it a Single eh?" He was really wounded by that apparently!

One's heart bleeds for him

Still at stale mate here. Still trying his arm every chance he gets only for him to erupt into "what have i don to deserve this" rant when I refuse him.
All goes well and everything is civil and then he carefully tries to wiggle his way back in and so far I've been strong but its so so hard because it always ends in arguement about how selfish and horrible I am. Apparently I'm also brainwashed by Lundy Bancroft and that hes NOTHING like what I think he is. So there is a family event on his side coming up and he is saying now that I amn't to go because he's not going to "act" . Fine by me. Until he said "I'll bring the DCS, or actually I'll just bring DD2" You will in your ass.
Then he accused me of using the DCs as a weapon? Is that all Abusive mens favourite line? Following that he accused me of cheating on him and using him as an excuse to get out of the relationship because I'm guilty of cheating. Crazy idiot. Then he's all "what do you want me to do" "what am i supposed to have done?" He doesn't get at all that its not something thats happened overnight.

How you basilboo?

How far have you got through the book BreakFree? I'm now on a bit that is talking about recovery... ok skimming though it as there is no chance of that, but reading for others I suppose.

There is NO chance EVER of him ever changing unless he realises and fully owns and accepts responsibility for what he has done.

Him saying you are mistaken about him, brainwashed by Lundy Bancroft even [pmsl] is all you need to know!

Stay resolute, you know what is right and what is wrong, he's just trying to manipulate you back under his control. You are stronger than that.

Breakfree: remember your previous post:

"I already have gone through the motions of telling him I feel I don't want to continue with the relationship. I even moved into the spare room. At first , as usual he got angry, then accusatory, then verbally abusive to defensive to blaming me. Now he is going through his perfect man phase again in an effort to prove me cold and uncaring again I guess. I feel like its a neverending groundhog day. "

This is the cycle of abuse. recognise it.

Thanks Hissy, I've joined the other thread on EA . I am totally recognising the cycle now. Its sooooo hard this though. Need nerves of steel to keep strong and not be sucked in. I feel weak at times and susceptible to falling for his bullsh** again.

Darling of course it is, it's bewildering love! I know, I was in shock for days when I realised that there was no other explanation/excuse I could give myself, that he IS abusive, that he'll never change. The third, and actually most important truth is though that IT IS NOT OUR FAULT! I can't tell you what relief that has brought me.

Still don't understand much about it all really, but tbh, it's not my problem to understand. I can just shrug and say, LOOON!

I'm watching this with great interest as well..