Dh and his parents. Normal relationship?

[Piggyleroux]

Dh has always been close to his parents. He has an older brother who isn't as close to them but still speaks to them weekly on the phone.

When I met dh 8 years ago, I was a little surprised by how involved they were in his life. He consulted them on everything and still does. I mean, really minute things like what colour to paint the lounge then takes photos of it and emails it to them.

Things came to a head when we had ds last march. We moved out of our flat and bought a house. It was a choice of two houses, dh's parents liked the first one, so, that was the one we bought, despite my protests (the second one was more practical, but the first was in a better road) Anyway, they had lent us the deposit (again, something I didn't want to borrow but dh talked me into it) so I didn't feel I could argue.

My issue is, he seems to need their approval for everything he does. It's almost like he has massive self esteem issues and needs them to reassure him. the problem is, they talk to him like he is a stupid kid (he is a doctor) which kind of reinforces his need for approval. It's now got to the stage where I'm going to suggest going to relate because it is affecting our marriage.

Sorry if this is a bit jumbled. I am quite upset about it all. Would counselling help?

There is a term for this but I don't know what it is - someone much more intelligent will be along in a moment. My DH was very similar to this in the start - down to MIL choosing our bed, ringing our solicitor, DH ringing her for advice on stupid things - things that should have been things for me / us to do. It caused huge trouble between us, and was getting to the stage where I was going to walk away. Things have very much improved in the last couple of years, I think the fact that I stopped complaining about MIL to him, so he doesn't feel as if he has to "defend" her anymore. I can't give you any good advice really, but just to let you know that you have my sympathy, and I know how upsetting and frustrating it is. Unfortunately, unless something is done it is going to get worse and not better. Have you sat him down and talked to him about it?

Enmeshment?

Like Victor says have you explained to him how you feel about this?

You have my sympathy, it sounds utterly infuriating and 8 years is a lonnng time to have put up with it. He is putting his parents wishes before yours, especially in buying the house that they preferred over the one you did.

How do you get on with his parents? Do they seem to like you or is it a case of 'Nobody is good enough for our son'?

I would imagine counselling would be helpful but it is a case of persuading your DH to go. If he doesn't see anything wrong in his behaviour anyway then you are going to be facing an uphill struggle.

This is a tough one. The problem is your DH is used to this kind of relationship with his parents and they raised him for many years to think this co-dependent/reliant/controlling behaviour is normal.

My partner has parents/siblings who have a very set in stone mindset about what their relationship with him is, and will not accept anything different, he simply has to do what they want and no is not accepted. On top of that he was well-trained to talk to them about/involve them in everything, almost in a desperate plea for love. This started off being irritating to now actually destructive. He has recently chosen to go no contact with them, but that decision has taken over a decade and illness (which this has all contributed to) to reach. And to be honest his final breaking point was them demanding he choose them over me, so he could 'once again return to being the nice boy he used to be before we met' (in his early 20s). Now you could say that family relationships are intrinsically complex and that wrong was done on both sides, but then this is history repeating itself as the same happened to his grandparents/parent and uncle 3 decades earlier. I don't know how things could have panned out differently, when relationships within families are toxic and behaviour is learnt and even inherited through generations, the 'child' doesn't know that the way they are treated/spoken to/what is expected of them is not normal. I wish I had had the foresight to prevent this, but it was not in my power, and to be honest I always gave them the benefit of the doubt. To me how can parents not desire the best for their children, and do everything to help them in life?

In his family's eyes it was not no one is good enough for our son, but no one is good enough for us! No wife could have fit in, there is no room!

That said. My brother has a close relationship with our parents, he asks their advice on housebuying, paint colours, calls them daily for 5 minutes. But the difference with that relationship to the one which you allude to, is everyone knows their boundaries, and his wife is happy.

There is a good book, Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward, which might give you more insight.

I really dont think its a problem at all to involve your parents in purchasing a property.

We moved house recently and I took my parents back to look at ones we were intrested in on second viewings (though they never ended up seeing the one we actually bought)

Why? For a third opinion, a more netural detached opinion (as buying a house is emotional), because we were excited about the house and wanted to talk about it , to involve our parents as we have a good realtionship, because they have more experience in house buying... there was no sinister reasoning behind it.

But surely there is a difference between you and your DH both happily involving your parents/ILs in a big decision such as house buying because you value their opinion (my ILs took a keen interest in any house buying we have done and also kindly lent money for our last move) and the kind of relationship the OP's DH has? OP - does your DH think there is any problem and would he consider going to counselling?

But what example is there the realtionship is different from most people with their parents?

You have my sympathies! My ex was very much like that with his mother. Again, he borrowed money and that meant they had the right to dictate certain things. It pissed me off no end. We even discussed getting a lodger at one point as we had 2 spare bedrooms and could have done with the cash, and had a friend lined up to move in. That was "put a stop to" as a young married couple should obviously have the house to themselves.

She started on me though - nagging him about my "behaviour" - I was wasn't acting like a "proper" wife ie pinny, cooking, needlework etc. I liked going out with my friends (I was 23!).

I wish I had some good advice, but mine ended in tears (his). He gave me an ultimatum - I had to buckle down or move out. I couldn't pack fast enough.

Coco - the difference is, that at your second viewings, if your DH preferred one house and your parents another, presumably the ultimate decision would be YOURS AND HIS.

Here, the OP's wishes are being passed over in favour of his parents' wishes.

OP - it's not right or healthy at all. I'm not surprised it's affecting your marriage - it will most likely destroy it things continue as they are. Others have given better advice, I can only say that I've also witnessed a situation like this - the couple divorced. I can say, hand on heart, that she was a reasonable, loving person who considered his parents to be part of their close family and in no way wished to 'cut them off'. Their actions in overstepping the boundaries time and time again however, ultimately killed their son's marriage. By the time he could acknowledge that their behaviour was totally unacceptable, she'd had enough. So sad.

See it as a drastic situation and do something now.

Yes... but what were the DH wishes? Perhaps he agreed with the parents anyway and was inclinded towards flat 1 off his own back?

If it turns out DH liked the 2nd but went for the 1st due solely to his parents then, and only then is that a problem, but we can't just fill in the blanks.

No, Coco, it is still a problem if DH and his parents liked the property but the OP didn't - because the partnership is between DH and OP, not DH and his parents with the OP being allowed to live there.

If you are at the point of thinking you need to seek help from Relate then that is exactly what you should do. Obviously it would be best if you could persuade DH to go too (he should want to go too when you tell him how strongly you are feeling about this and the risk to your marriage), but even if he won't go you should go too to talk it through and think about your own responses.

??? We're not filling in the blanks though. The OP is telling us that her wishes, her opinions within her own marriage are being passed over by her DH as a result of him kowtowing to his parents.

It's coming from the horse's mouth - OP is not happy with her DH's parents' interference within her marriage.

The house is secondary.

Did the DH dislike property one,prefer two but has bought one anyway soley due to the say so of his parents?

I think maybe he feels that he does not want to disppoint his parents and therefore he is seeking their approval on all things, no matter how mundane.

Surely there is a little bit of all of us that do the same? It's natural to want our parents' approval as they are our very first role models as children and very often our parents' expectations are imprinted in our brains for life (rightly or wrongly).

However, I think your DH needs to realise that he is now an adult and thus he is rightly entitled to his own opinions and that his parents will respect any differences they have.

I agree this is is not so much about the house as about the unhealthy relationship dynamic between Piggys H and his parents.

Coco - you have fortunately come from a family where such dysfunction is thankfully unknown. I can see why you have said what you have but that would only apply to "normal and healthy functioning" families. The "normal" rules therefore do not apply here because such people do not abide by them; his parents are certainly not acting in the usual normal healthily functioning manner.

The dynamic between Piggys H and his parents has been always unhealthy and as an adult he is still subconsiously seeking their approval. He has not yet realised that it is actually okay not to want to continously seek their approval any more and they have not discouraged such a notion. His parents will not allow him to make his own decisions, they always want to be a part of what should be the couple's alone decision making. This is about power and control.

Piggy - your H's relationship with his parents is dysfunctional. They have the final say on everything and he has acceded to their demands. Their deposit was and remains not without emotional cost. It will damage your marriage further ultimately. Your H has been conditioned to all this, he may not ever change his opinion regarding his parents and perhaps will never see how wrong their behaviour is.

Piggy would also recommend you read Toxic Inlaws by Susan Forward.

I'm quite like this with my parents to my shame. After a long time in therapy it's blindingly clear that I have 'attachment issues'. The gist of it is that I was insecurely attached to my parents as a child (extremely well-meaning but slightly odd ones) - various reasons for this, anxious mother, time spent in care etc. The end result is that I suffer from low self-esteem, early onset and persistent depression, anxiety etc.
I constantly seek my parents approval, whether I realise it or not at the time.

Therapy helps.

Should also say that I'm a doctor too - again, education was my way of wining parent's approval.

winning

"The problem is your DH is used to this kind of relationship with his parents and they raised him for many years to think this co dependent/reliant/controlling behaviour is normal"

I agree with this comment from livinginazoo. Big symathies to you, what a difficult one. I think your main challenge would be to get DH to admit there is a problem. Only then would it be possible to get anywhere I would have thought.

I've often said it - I feel sorry for the poor woman my DSS1 ends up with. He has the most unhealthy relationship with his controlling mother and if I wind forward a virtual clock then he's the exact same as your DH

I have a friend who does this. Takes his parents with him when he buys furniture as so his house looks like an older persons house. He is single and I have been wondering how that would work if he met someone . . .

Quack - I think it is perfectly reasonable if you are single, it is nice to feel that you have someone to talk things through with and help you make decisions.

I don't see why the money has to mean control, especially as it is only a loan. My parents gave us the deposit for our first house, and had no say in what we bought whatsoever, they wouldn't have expected to.

Alibaba,

re your comment:-
"I don't see why the money has to mean control, especially as it is only a loan. My parents gave us the deposit for our first house, and had no say in
what we bought whatsoever, they wouldn't have expected to".

Money however can equal control in dysfunctional families. In your above case this was a loan without any conditions attached to it which is normally the case in emotionally healthy families. Dysfunctional families like the parents of Piggy's H do not and never play by the "normal" rules governing such family behaviours.

In this case the OPs DH's family are not healthy; there are unspoken conditions attached to it (i.e you will buy the house that we want you to buy).

OP stated she did not want her H to take the deposit that was lent to them by his parents but she was talked into it by her H despite her misgivings. His parents also liked the house in the "better road" (and this is the house that was bought) even though the other house was more practical.