do you need ex's permission to

[mumof4sons]

take the children on holiday?

I want to take my 4 DSs (17, 16, 13 & 11) to America this summer to visit my family and friends. I have asked ex if ok and so far haven't had a firm yes or no. He avoids the question all together and brings up other stuff relating to the divorce. Every day I put off booking the flights, the price goes up and the availability becomes less.

Should I just book the flights?

i think it's over 2 weeks you need permission to leave the country? might be wrong thou.

You'll need a letter of permission from him to get past US customs. They're very concerned about international child abduction.

You have told him about this trip, they are going to see your family, you have a right to take them.

Book the flights and then Google wording for permission to traveland you will find some threads and suggestions, draw something up, print it off and get him to sign it.

He's just hoping you will give up. Why the hell should you.

Both US and Canada require letter from absent parent. The letter is stamped at immigration on entry to the country and you are advised to keep it with you during your visit. I did not know this when I took my then 6 year old DD to Canada 6 months after split with ex H. Both DD (who was stunned into silence!) and I had a grilling from a French Canadian officer at Montreal airport - they explained its is all about child abduction fears and let us through with a warning to have a letter next time.

Funny thing is, they only picked me out because I was travelling alone with DD - her father could have been a sperm donor, one night stand or dead, but they pounced on us and asked where the child's father was.

Since the Montreal incident I have taken a letter from ex H each time - never been asked in Europe though (Spain and Sweden).

How is anybody going to know that you are seperated or even divorced?

Ring a solicitor and ask but am sure you do not need permission to take your own children on holiday.

Sorry this is going a bit off track really, but my DH works in Canada, when I travel with my DD to visit him will I need a letter to get into Canada?

Any parent travelling on their own in theory needs the permission of the other parent if that parent has PR for the child to leave the country. In practise I think it is hit and miss if you are asked

I have never been asked about taking DS2 out of the country on my own even to the US last year, whether this is luck or not I dont know. I dont know what criteria they use as to who they question. I wouldn't mind being questioned so long as it was in an appropriate way (I have heard on MN of immigration directly asking a young child "where's your Dad ?", and have had my older son indirectly questioned "have you left Dad at home?") as I would know they were doing their job.

I assume hoping they have some secret criteria as to whether they question you or not

Holly if he has PR it would save you some hassle as I have heard Canada ar very hot on this

Do you think your XP is refusing to co-operate out of malice ie he wants to fuck up your holiday? Or is he just vague and forgetful?
I would be inclined TBH to print out a letter off the interent and forge his signiature on it.

I wasn't asked leaving Canada with my 2 boys' but coming back in I was asked if I had DHs permission and had to show the letter. I had photocopied his passport page onto the bottom of it as well do they could verify his iD and signature. I would definitely try to get one from him to ease your passage, but if he won't do it, surely your DC are old enough to state you're there for a holiday and you have your return to tickets etc...

I am afraid some of the advice here is wrong. You may need your ex's permission. As far as the law is concerned, the position on taking your children out of the country is as follows:

• If you have a residence order for all four children you do not need your ex's permission unless the trip will last over a month
• If your ex does not have PR you do not need his permission
• If your ex has PR and there is no residence order you need his permission for any trip out of the country, even if it is just for a few hours

If you need his permission but take your children out of the country without getting it he could report you for child abduction. However, you will not be convicted if the courts conclude that he has withheld permission unreasonably. Forging his signature as SGB suggests will not help you if he does decide to complain to the police.

Assuming you need his permission, I suggest you give him a deadline to respond. If he refuses permission or misses the deadline you can apply to the courts for a Specific Issue Order. For a genuine holiday you should have no trouble getting one. The authorities in the USA and Canada should be happy to accept an SIO as evidence that you are not abducting your children.

US customs are inconsistent. I took my kids without a letter, didn't know I had to have one. My 14 year old was pulled aside and questioned to make sure that I wasn't trying to abduct her and her younger brother. She got told off for laughing too.... obviously I pointed out that I had a return ticket etc and in the end they let us through. My sister who is also divorced went on ahead with her kids no problems.... Have travelled all around the world with them as a single parent never encountered any problems before.

My ex has never had PR as he's not on the bc. I've taken DS abroad several times on my own to various countries including the US and never been questioned about it. I don't know how they'd know that ex doesn't have PR though as I've only ever taken DS's passport which I don't think mentions it.

I travelled to and from Egypt with DS (who has a different surname to me) no letter, and never once got asked for a letter. UK Border control ONCE advised me to carry his birth certificate to show the link between me and him, but never was I asked, even in NYC, for the father's permission.

I do actually have a signed to whom it may concern in perpetuity letter now though. I plan to have it laminated.

Does it depend on who has parental responsibilty?

Not sure what you are asking.

If the question is about whether permission is needed, see my earlier post which sets out the law as it currently stands. Briefly, to take a child out of the country you need the agreement of everyone who has parental responsiblity unless you have a residence order in your favour, in which case you can take the child out of the country for up to a month without needing anyone's agreement.

I'd have thought that a 16yo and a 17yo didn't need permission from their parents to go on holiday. I would think that they would be old enough to make that decision themselves.

I have never had 'permission'. My ex does not have PR and it is my surname on the passports. I am really surprised to read this.

You don't need permission.

US customs may ask, but they may not. I took my DD to Florida last year, with a group of friends (all with different family set ups) I had a letter from XP if needed, but no one questioned me, and we had 3 flights one from uk to usa, then internally within USA. I have been taking DD on flights alone for 7 years, I have never been questioned.

On the holiday mentioned above, I was also traveling with friends, none of them were questioned either. Basically we were a group of 6 adults with 5 kids all with different surnames, mostly different from the adults and no one batted an eyelid (even although the kids were acting crazed from travelling for over 24 hours! ).

Ainsmum you do actually need permission, its just for some reason Immigration dont seem to follow up on this, I dont know why this is.

direct.gov

Cymar - Permission is not required once the child is over 16.

handsomeharry - As your ex does not have PR you don't need permission.

Aimsmum - Sorry but you are wrong. I have set out the legal position in England and Wales twice on this thread. If you take a child out of the country you need the consent of all those with PR. The only situation where you don't need consent is when you have a residence order in your favour and you return within one month. If you do not have the appropriate consent you are committing the criminal offence of child abduction. Of course, you will only be prosecuted for the offence if the absent parent chooses to report you to the authorities and even then you may not be prosecuted.

Sorry, I am in neither England nor Wales. But I have traveled in Europe and the USA with DD and we have never been questioned or asked for any proof.

I would book the flights if it were me.

Although having just read the direct.gov link it would appear that XP doesn't have PR even although I have always assumed he has!!