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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

OK I'm scaring myself now. Help please or possibly reassurance.

29 replies

SarahStratton · 15/05/2011 12:13

I've just read the list on the Sociopath thread. And I tick most of the boxes, which obviously scares and worries me. The only people in the world that I love and care for are my DDs and Mr Wrong/Right.

Can you tick those boxes purely because of childhood/what has happened in the past, which has made you 'shut down', or does that automatically make you a sociopath. Because, fairly obviously, I don't want to be one.

I'd say both my parents tick those boxes too, but nobody would know outwardly, with the exception of one friend, who calls my DM The Dementor.

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IngridBergman · 15/05/2011 12:16

Sarah I didn't see the thread, will look for it now. Try not to worry - you seem normal to me Smile

IngridBergman · 15/05/2011 12:20

'Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them'

Fail Grin

sorry

well it is a long list...but are you really a pathological liar? Conning and manipulative? Really? You just come across as sincere and funny on here.

SarahStratton · 15/05/2011 12:22

I am though, I genuinely don't give a shit about anyone apart from myself and the DDs (and MrWrong/Right, but that's a whole other thread). I have 'acquaintances' but no true friends, I never have done. I don't trust people. Seriously don't trust anyone with the exception of DD1.

My family is lovely on the outside, picture perfect parents and childhood etc. But not when you get to know us.

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SarahStratton · 15/05/2011 12:24

I lied all the time to XH. And when I was growing up. It always, in both instances, seemed better to lie and maybe get away with it than face up to the consequences of what I deemed to be unfair.

I can 'talk the talk', listen sympathetically and respond appropriately. But it doesn't feel genuine to me, more like I'm playing a part. I have nobody I could ask that in RL so I don't know if that's how everyone else feels.

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IngridBergman · 15/05/2011 12:30

I have wondered about that before as sometimes I don't feel genuine empathy - I just pretend - but OTOH I never, or extremely rarely, lie to anyone about anything.

I came to the conclusion that I was probably on the autistic spectrum after taking a test for that and scoring 47 out of 50 (you have to get 32 to consider yourself probably AS, normal score is 16).

Sorry you are so worried. I have to say I have no idea.

FabbyChic · 15/05/2011 12:37

don't be worried, you can be one and still live a happy life. if you know your failings why not try to work on them so they no longer cause you to be the way you are?

SarahStratton · 15/05/2011 12:37

Oh, oddly I've often wondered if DD2 is on the AS spectrum.

WRGT the lying, my XH and both my parents are very controlling and manipulative people. I used to lie to my parents about where I had been/who with etc because I wasn't allowed to play with the children where I lived. They were village children and they are seriously snobby about them :( XH was more controlling in other areas. It wasn't worth telling him if I had been out at lunchtime at work because I would get it in the neck for going out with men. I also had to account for every penny I spent so I lied about that too. I seem to have spent most of my life with him avoiding telling him anything.

It's comforting that you pretend to do the empathy thing too. I think I possibly come across as sincere and funny because I do want people to like me and I like making people laugh. I just find it v difficult to take a relationship any further in RL.

Probably why I feel at home on MN. Everyone is at arms length, just how I like it.

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IngridBergman · 15/05/2011 12:40

Same here with MN. RL situations and I am a bag of nerves. Yesterday at a children's party the adults all stayed and chatted and I felt totally, I mean totally uncomfortable as though everything I said was potentially weird or wrong.

I still feel dreadful now, going over everything I said.

WRT your ex, that relationship sounds abusive and to lie to your abuser is completely OK in the circumstances.

I think you could use some counselling. Have you had any before?

SarahStratton · 15/05/2011 12:45

Yes I've had counselling. It wasn't much good as I'm no good at talking about myself to people. I just sat and talked about trivial stuff and wouldn't discuss anything deep. Group therapy was even worse, I hated it and only went once.

I'm ok in social situations, I tend to disassociate myself and watch people instead. I find people fascinating to watch, they are so bizarre sometimes.

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beckibicker · 15/05/2011 13:00

oh for heavens sake

i ticked most of the boxes on an are you depressed list

never had a days depression in my life lol

SarahStratton · 15/05/2011 13:12

Yeah thanks for that. Very helpful. I wouldn't have bothered posting if I wasn't genuinely concerned.

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FakePlasticTrees · 15/05/2011 13:13

(can someone link to the thread, or at least bump it, I can't find it)

SarahStratton · 15/05/2011 13:15

It's this on FPT.

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FakePlasticTrees · 15/05/2011 13:21

OK - I think there's a big difference about not actively caring about others, and wishing them harm/enjoying harming them (physically or emotionally).

SarahStratton · 15/05/2011 13:23

Ok I don't want to actively hurt people. I'll confess to a death-bed hit list, but I wouldn't actually carry it out.

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OppositeOfBlooming · 15/05/2011 13:26

I think with things like being a sociopath, or even a psychopath for that matter, being depressed or being autistic etc etc, they look for human traits that are markedly exaggerated. So if you're human you tick the boxes but without the exaggeration that is an actual signifier. You have moments of irrationality, you lie, you feel down for no obvious reason, feel full of rage sometimes, wish it'd all go away at others. I think most people feel these things sometimes. Have you seen the threads on here about uncontrollable urges? Like wondering what would happen if you stabbed yourself suddenly, or wanting to shout arsebiscuits in a library or wanting to tip boiling water on the cat? You have these urges, but you don't follow through. Same with sociopathic tendencies. You admit to lying but as a response to something. Most people lie and there are probably reasons for it. When it's your default setting, that's something a bit different and still not necessarily an indicator of sociopathic tendencies even then.

What I'm clumsily trying to say is that we can all tick boxes if we're honest and largely it doesn't mean a thing. For example, when dd was a baby I did that PND ticklist thing and was utterly honest. The midwife said she'd never met a new mother who didn't feel guilty or like she was getting it all wrong and that she actually thought most people could tick boxes and be diagnosed if they were honest. But that actually being depressed or pathologically different to the norm is something far more complicated than ticking a few boxes.

You don't come across as a sociopath fwiw. You sound like you've had a horrible time of it and adapted to a way of living that gets you through. I bet you're more 'normal' than you think.

Find me a person who doesn't worry about how they come across. Doesn't pick apart things they've said in public, cringing with how they thought they sounded. Doesn't lie. Doesn't think 'fuck it I don't want to go out and interact' with blooming people. Doesn't think 'oh shut up moaning about your boring issues'. Honestly, they don't exist. I would diagnose you using my amateur skills and my fairly useless psychoanalysis modules from my degree as 'human'. Not as content as you could be probably. But not sociopathic.

SarahStratton · 15/05/2011 13:47

Thank you blooming, that does make a lot of sense. I see what you mean about being able to tick the boxes, and I can self justify the boxes I tick. I'm just a bit angsty about the self-justifying bit.

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bullet234 · 15/05/2011 13:49

Sorry Opposite of Blooming, but I never worry about how I come across. Nor do I pick apart things I've said in public. Not particularly bothered about interacting with people in the real world either, I can take it or leave it and prefer to leave it.
I also only think about other people when I make a concerted effort to do so, which means that I can go for years not bothering about my sisters and can forget about people, not caring about staying in touch when I move away from them. The exceptions are my DH and my children, a large part of the children is probably some instinct, but also because they are nearly constantly with me.
I have very little empathy, in terms of being able to see things from others' perspective and feel little emotion for most of the time. I don't think "oh shut up about your boring issues", I usually tend to not think about them.
It's one of the reasons why my Aspergers took so long to be diagnosed. As a child and teenager my parents refused to have me assessed and as an adult how I come across to other people and how I interact with other people, or what other people were thinking about are things I am not fussed about. I like people, but had no concept of peer pressure, of wanting to belong for years and now I know the concept but not fussed about it.
I have no ability to manipulate though and am definitely not a pathological liar. In fact I have the opposite, whereby I will tie myself in knots wondering if I am lying if I say I've had half a pint of milk when it's really been 575 ml, for example.
And I'm not authoritarian or have a need to control others.
So probably not a sociopath Grin.

OppositeOfBlooming · 15/05/2011 14:04

Which proves my point bullet. I meant somebody will always have some of those traits. They're not 'desirable' and can be found on various lists of various personality types/disorders. But they're also traits that most people have at least one of. You have some of the traits that could mark you out as a sociopath but aren't one. And probably don't have some of the traits that indicate Asperger's even though you have it iyswim.

LoopyLoopsBettyBoops · 15/05/2011 14:24

Lovely Sarah

Although Bekibicker's post wasn't very understanding, she does have a point. It is quite dangerous to try and diagnose yourself on the internet. We've all done it, but the problem is, we can identify easily with symptoms without actually displaying them enough to count as having them (if that makes sense?) I've copied and pasted below a host of other lists of symptoms. I bet you (and I) can identify with many of thsese issues. It certainly doesn't mean we suffer from the problem. Please try to remember that you are who you are; a nice person who loves her family and whom others love. That's all you need. :)

And Sarah, PLEASE don't look through the lists below if you are going to start worrying about having each of the issues listed. You simply don't. I just want to show you how easy it is to make a positive self-diagnosis when you don't understand all the facts.

List of Asperger Traits

It is very important to remember: No two people with Aspergers are the same?they all just share some traits.

If you are here because you suspect your loved one has AS, remember that the best thing you can do is arm yourself with information about the syndrome.

If you are here because someone tells you they have AS and you can't believe it, the best thing you can give them is belief. No one knows what a person goes through in their interior life.

I have taken these from various books and websites on AS. They are listed in no particular order. However I have arranged them in three categories: Personal/Physical; Social Interactions; In Relationships.

At the end of the page, I list the oft-overlooked POSITIVE TRAITS of Asperger's Syndrome.

Personal / Physical

* Repetitive routines or rituals
* Can engage in tasks (sometimes mudane ones) for hours and hours
* Flat, or blank expression much of the time
* Doesn't always recognize faces right away (even close loved ones)
* Strong sensitivity to sound, touch, taste, sight, and smell (e.g. fabrics?won?t wear certain things, fluorescent lights)
* Sensitivity to the texture of foods 
* Eccentric personality
* Idiosyncratic attachment to inanimate objects
* Being "in their own world" / Preoccupied with their own agenda
* Highly gifted in one or more areas, e.g. math, music, etc
* Single-mindedness
* Likes and dislikes can be very rigid
* Can spend hours in the library researching, loves learning and information
* May have difficulty staying in college despite a high level of intelligence
* Limited interests / Intense focus on one or two subjects
* Unusual preoccupations
* Collects things
* Early in life they often have a speech impediment
* Clumsiness / Uncoordinated motor movements
* Speech and language peculiarities / hyperlexia
* Non-verbal communication problems: difficulty reading body language, facial expression and tone
* Word repetition (they may frequently repeat what you've just said)
* Excellent rote memory

Social Interactions

* Desire for friendships and social contact but difficulty acquiring and maintaining them
* Shuts down in social situations
* Social withdrawal / may avoid social gatherings
* Lack of interest in other people
* Lack of empathy at times
* Difficulty understanding others? feelings
* Can obsess about having friends to prove they?re ?normal?
* Rigid social behavior due to an inability to spontaneously adapt to variations in social situations
* Has an urge to inform that can result in being blunt / insulting
* Preoccupied with their own agenda
* Great difficulty with small-talk and chatter

In Relationships (these mainly pertain to AS men in relationships. Sorry to split along gender lines but there are differences.)

* Can often be distant physically and/or emotionally.
* Often are attracted to another purely because they are attracted to him  
* He has a hard time saying I love you, showing physical affection; as a result it is difficult to find out if they do love you
* He can be very critical and takes it personally if she won?t wear something he likes, or wears something he dislikes  
* Can stop putting any effort into relationship after a time, and doesn?t understand why she then stops giving too
* Often times they will make no motions to keep a relationship (be it friendship, or something more) going
* They won't call, and you might not see them for days. That doesn't mean they don't care.
* He will do what he thinks is best for the both of them but seldom talks to her about her feelings or opinions
* If she tries to share her love for him, he may find her need to ?connect? smothering
* His attention is narrowly focused on his own interests
* Men with undiagnosed AS often feel as if their partner is being ungrateful or ?bitchy? when she complains he is uncaring or never listens to her
* He can become quite defensive when she asks for clarification or a little sympathy. The defensiveness can turn into verbal abuse (usually not physical abuse) as the man attempts to control the communication to suit his view of the world.

A List of Symptoms - Low self-esteem

* You make negative "I am" statements all the time.
* You don't spend very much time living in the present
* You fear new experiences, change, and you lacks trust.
* You always want something someone else has or something that is beyond your means
* Your responses to defeats or disappointments are exaggerated
* You desire perfection, but see yourself as far from perfect.
* You boast about and exaggerate the nature of your successes to cover up feelings of inadequacy.
* You engage in self sabotage
* You are a 'people pleaser' you have an overwhelming need for approval and support.
* You put down and denigrate yourself, even your self talk reflects this with thoughts like "I don't deserve..." or "I'll never be able to..."
* You neglect your physical appearance
* You have difficulty making eye contact.
* You avoiding real intimacy and deep relationships
* You have a large desire for material possessions.
* You engage in 'busy work' to avoid confronting your personal issues
* You seldom express your ideas and generally don't believe in yourself.
* You feel hopeless.
* You struggle with a lack of energy;
* You are passive
* You see small task as very large and intimidating.
* Job-Hopping
* You have a low level of self-awareness
* You use lots of energy to maintain a false front
* You tend to be anxious.
* You are very sensitive to criticism
* You are overly critical of others putting them down
* You are socially isolated lacking a support network.
* You struggle with addictions
* You focuses on and obsess about the past.
* You are always apologizing

A Checklist for Depression

What's the difference between a bad case of the blues and the painful mental disorder known as depression? According to the experts, impaired functioning is usually a clear-cut indication of a major depression.

Here's a quick checklist of depression symptoms. If the list sounds familiar, you may want to see a counselor or a psychiatrist.

*

  Depressive mood: Do you suffer from feelings of gloom, helplessness or pessimism for days at a time?
*

  Sleep disturbance: Do you have trouble falling asleep at night or trouble staying asleep?waking up in the middle of the night or too early in the morning? Are you sleeping too much?
*

  Chronically fatigued: Do you frequently feel tired or lack energy?
*

  Isolation: Have you stopped meeting friends for lunch? Increasing isolation and diminished interest or pleasure in activities are major signs of depression.
*

  Appetite disturbance: Are you eating far less than usual?or far more? Severe and continuing appetite disturbance is often an indication of depression.
*

  Inability to concentrate: If you can't seem to focus on even routine tasks, it's probably time to get some help.
*

  Dependence on mood-altering substances: If you depend on alcohol or other drugs to make it through the day, you may be suffering from depression. Often the substance abuse causes symptoms that mimic the appearance of clinical depression, but are in fact due wholly to the drug use.
*

  Feeling a sense of inappropriate guilt or worthlessness
*

  *Recurrent thoughts of death or suicide or a suicide attempt


 Bipolar Depression Symptom List - Depressive Symptoms*

    * Low self-esteem or self-loathing
    * Fatigue, lethargy, or feeling slowed down
    * Increased need for sleep or the ability to sleep as many as 18 hours without feeling refreshed
    * Social withdrawal
    * Loss of emotional control; cries easily or for no reason
    * Headaches, backaches or digestive problems
    * Unable to concentrate, make decisions, or remember details
    * Suicidal thoughts
    * Inability to feel pleasure or happiness 

Bipolar Depression Symptom List - Manic Symptoms

    * Delusions of grandeur or inflated self-esteem
    * Increased performance of goal directed activities
    * Alcohol or drug abuse
    * Irritable or angry
    * Irresponsible spending
    * Engaged in dangerous, unprotected sexual activity, or other dangerous acts
    * Hyperactive
    * Flight of ideas, racing thoughts
    * No need or little need for sleep
    * Rapid, pressurize speech that others can't understand
neuroticmumof3 · 15/05/2011 14:37

i think there's a big difference between the lies you have told and the ones that sociopaths tell. They lie in order to manipulate people and get their own way, regardless of damage done to others. You HAD to lie to survive the abusive situations you were in. Also, if you were a sociopath you would have no guilt about any of the lies you had told, you wouldn't even see them as lies.

Jux · 15/05/2011 14:44

SarahStratton, I'm no expert so feel free to ignore me, I won't take offence.

On the very little that I gather about you, you had a rotten childhood and rotten role models, and a rotten relationship with XH.

Your inability to trust (even anyone) is a direct result of that and it doesn't mean that you are incapable of trusting in the future. You are in self-protection mode because of your exdperiences. I don't believe for a minute that you were born like that and that even with 'normal' and loving parents you would still be like that. Your experiences have made you what you are now, and future experiences can change it. You already trust DD1 and that is an excellent example of how experiences can change you.

I know you hated therapy and couldn't/wouldn't talk about yourself, but I think if you make a concerted effort to confront your early experiences through therapy/counselling/what you will, that you will find it immensely helpful, whether or not you have an underlying condition like AS, though it won't be easy and you will probably find yourself hiding and running away from it; keep trying because life is fab and well worth the pain.

SarahStratton · 15/05/2011 16:57

Actually, I think you're all right. I've also managed to diagnose myself as having AS and being bipolar and depressed/low self esteem from the other lists. So I think I will step away from the online self diagnosis and enjoy what I have.

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LoopyLoopsBettyBoops · 15/05/2011 17:03

:)

We all identify with a lot of those lists, you see? I hope you're not now worried about each of those things as well, I just wanted to show you how easy it is to think you have something when confronted with a list of possible symptoms. I doubt very much you are a sociopath or anything other than a genuinely kind yet anxious person.

Please take care of yourself. :)

SarahStratton · 15/05/2011 17:05

I'm glad you posted those Loopy, it has made me realise that you're right. I could self diagnose myself with pretty much anything if I thought about it long enough :)

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