serious advice - gender identity

[joannexd]

I have dressed in female clothes for as long as i can remember, not continually and punctuated by long periods of guilt about it and purging of my wardrobe etc

I have been married 20 years and in the most sensitive ways i can imagine I have tried to broach the subject or introduce the topic or provide hints. Everything I have garnered from this exercise tells me that it would be unacceptable to my wife - so I dont do it in her presence or even mention it

However I do have a very strong need to dress and feel comfortable when presenting as female. I have attended one party en femme and dressed appropriately as a 40 something woman sensitively made up with a natural looking wig and coordinated accesories I was accepted by other women as at least an acceptable 'person' No doubt that iwasnt a natural female but i had very normal conversations with women my age and younger and was refered to as 'she ' and 'her' , complimented on my outfit etc and it all felt very natural

I have ventured out at other times to bars etc and found that men respond to me as female and i loved that feeling of even just an inkling of female sexual power.

I have frequently harboured fantasies about being a 'real ' woman i.e gender ressignment , hormones ( not that they work so well at my age) facial surgery etc and altho i have a very healthy sex life with my wife and I adore her I still fantasise about sex as a woman , being seduced and made love to by a very masculine man , oral and vaginal sex . I have had cyber sex with many men fully immersed in my female persona , some of whom have known i was male some not

My take on all of this is that i can be accepted as an attractive person in a male or female persona and that all i may be doing is to have found a rather aberrant way of expressing the feminine side of my nature , or making it even more explicit for whatever reason is rooted in my sub- conscious. I feel sexier as a woman than i ever felt as a man and even more so when men respond to me Unfortunately I cant be female because my genetics are male and as it would cause untold hurt to those i love most dearly i accept what i must be

What do the panel think about keeping this aspect of myself hidden for 20 + years? If I came out to you how would you respond?

Do you find your desire to dress as a woman and explore that side of your personality is becoming stronger as the years pass? Or is that your ability to become excited/interested/whatever requires more stimulation? I don't think spending much time having cybersex with other people is good for any relationship because it takes your focus away from your relationship and puts it elsewhere.

Do you want to make this fantasy reality or not? Because if you are not prepared to undergo gender reassignement procedures, your chances of making that romantic dream come true (of being seduced by a man romantically etc) are possibly a little unlikely to meet your expectations. I don't know how old you are, but what I am saying is that many mature women of a pleasant appearance find it quite difficult to find what you are fantasing about. Not to say it wouldn't happen of course, but something to think about.

Gay, he asked for honest answers as to how people would respond to such a confession, that's what I gave, my honest answer, I really don't care if that makes me seem unhinged, I can't think of a much worse betrayal personally.
I can't stand liars, and the magnitude of his lie is such that it ruins lives.
He hasn't mentioned children , if he has them that just shows what a self centred man he is.
It's not what he lied about (although that would be a deal breaker for me, to put it politely) it's the fact that he entered marriage based on a lie and his wife has had all her choices taken away and has been made a fool of for over 20 years.
Just because someone is confused about their sexuality, it doesn't give them carte blance to deceive their partner, he doesn't deserve one iota of sympathy for what he has done. Save any sympathy for his wife, she is the true vicim here.

I'd get off Mumsnet and go somewhere with proper advice regarding transgender issues such as coming out, thinking about transitioning, etc. Maybe look for a local group and see about talking to some people face-to-face about how you're feeling and what (if anything) you want to do next.

I think a big part of it is going to be telling your wife, though.

I second Helend OP if you are stil reading, MN is not the best place for advice on gender issues. WHile there are posters with a sensible outlook, there are a lot of monogamyst screamers and anti-trans bucketheads, as well as people who are just utterly ignorant and proud of it.

joannexd one of our closest friends is in her 50s and is going through the gender reassignment process. She had been married for 20 years to her partner and luckily they are still very close. She has now lived fully as a woman for over 2 years while having hormone therapy and is booked for surgery in September. She has had amazing support and years of counselling through the Charing Cross Gender Identity Clinic and her GP.

Gender dysphoria is a very difficult thing to live with and you have all my sympathy - please PM me if you want to talk or want more information on support systems.

No judgement made on your marriage except to note that open communication and honesty is what kept our friend and her wife friends through the process, though they did get divorced a few years ago, all very amicably. As soon as she sat her wife down and told her about her gender dysphoria, her wife admitted she had known all along that this was the source of her very serious mental health issues and suicide attempts. Since beginning the gender reassignment process she has completely come off all anti-depressants, no MH issues in years, and it's a complete miracle - that was the clearest indication to me and everyone around her that gender reassignment was the absolute best thing for her to do, even in her 50s and even with the fear of losing her marriage, friends and family. Her very traditional family have been amazing about it and very supportive.

My father is a much happier person now he is female. He had been forced to live a lie for his entire life. He is also now in a happy, permanent relationship with a nice man. As I said before, please feel free to PM me if you want some support.

Well, SGB, I couldn't have put it better myself. Heaven forbid anyone should deviate from the biblical model.
Mal, you talk about deception. The biggest deception that goes on is actually with the trans person themselves, who try and try to make these feelings go away, try for a "normal" life and succeed sometimes, but sometimes don't. Yes, there's the ripple pool effects of upset with partners, family and friends, but it's nothing compared to what the person has gone through inside and without being able to share it. I do feel for the partners in these situations, who often feel deceived and betrayed, but I also know that most trans people have tried to avoid hurting people and tried to maintain that steady family life as best they can. And are devasted by the hurt they cause their loved ones.
Neither is the OP's wife a victim - it sounds to me like she's just not very receptive to hearing him at all.
In a way, it is a bit like people who are gay but do not want to be and who get married to try and make all those confused feelings go away - and that is still shockingly common - but if you have been brought up in a narrowminded household, then often that is the outcome.
Your response shows how very little you know of the range of human sexualities out there. Bit sad, really, as presumably you are surrounded by a society of folk who do not conform to your perfect model.

Fucks me right off when people parade their misguided ignorance. No wonder trans people still get murdered every day.

Nice post Gay40 I have to say, when my Dad told me I wasn't in the least bit surprised, I can't say why but I think I'd suspected for a long time. I don't understand why people feel they have the right to judge others based on their sexuality. My Dad went through a lot before he realised what he needed and how to get it. I'm proud of him (her) and I'm glad that I have stood by and supported him. My dcs are fine with it too, it really isn't the worst thing that can happen

I would be fine if my partner told me he liked to dress as a woman. We are both bisexual anyway, so I suppose our model is not the hetero, monogamous, 'normal' set-up, but I just don't think it's weird. And I don't think it would affect our relationship in a negative manner.

Mind you, for that reason, I know that he'd be able to tell me immediately. He wouldn't be forced to live a lie for 20 years rather than worry about what my reaction would be. We communicate incredibly effectively.

i'm assuming joanne's gone off to the beaumont society?

there are some friendly people on tv chix too - assuming you have found most of the tv/tg sites already, despite choosing to post on mumsnet? presumably you were after relationship advice rather than anything else, but the beaumont society is really the one place you need to go. there is a forum for your wife as well.

Well done Gay40. God, so many people on here are so f judgemental - life is not black and white, people have complicated emotional inner lives which don't always fit neatly into suburban marital 'bliss' with 2.4 children etc.

Joannexd- I completely understand why you've kept your feelings hidden -transgender/transvestism is one of society's last taboos. People (as witnessed here) are generally still very uncomfortable with it. I hope that changes over time now trans is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act.

My advice would be: life will no doubt be difficult in a very different way if you come clean. But then it seems to be horribly difficult for you now (otherwise why would you post about it here?) so you need to weigh up what's most important to you. Do you feel like you're living a lie? Or is it just one side of you you'd like to explore further (I'm sure many of us have sexual desires that we'd like to explore outside of our normal monogomous relationship but decide not to act upon it because it's not worth risking what we do have and are mostly happy with.) If however, you feel you are compelled to explore life as a woman more meaningfully, then you need to discuss this with your wife. If it happened to me, and you told me everything, I would be anxious about our relationship, but would probably want you to explore your needs, if they are as strong as I think they might be (oh and I wouldn't flip out too much about the cybersex either even though it's undoubtedly not your finest moment :) )

Get some therapy-it will undoubtedly help in your decision-making process. Good luck!

Yes, but when one partner is determined to fit into that model and won't entertain anything else, and the other clearly can't, I'm not sure where blame can be laid. Not that blame should come into it, if you know what i mean.

The suburban standard just doesn't seem to be working for an increasing amount of people.
I just sense Joanne's frustration at not being able to discuss it, and I'd be more upset at the thought that my partner felt they could not bring someting to me for fear of my reaction.

My take is this. You have known for some time, probably before you got married, what you are. You have been dishonest to your wife. You have a secret life from her which is not on. Im guessing you'd like to live full-time as a woman whilst remaining with her. You also seem to be into self-pity when you should be considering how you have misled her. There is nothing wrong with wanting to live as a woman but to hoodwink someone else into your fantasy and keep it going for 40 years? Try thinking of her for a change. Sorry, but you did ask.

I agree with DrGruntFotter

Thank God this thread has become a bit more sensible, thought I'd inadvertently logged onto MailOnline for a minute.

Yes infidelity is wrong but really, people!

a little more background , My wife is the only sexual partner i have ever had. She had several affairs in the early years of our marriage which we worked thru because we have a deep love for each other and have 2 children , one especially emotionally vulnerable, to think about and she had major issues which i dont want to expound upon

Sorry, who has major issues, your wife or your child?

wife

How do you see this progressing joanne? How much longer are you prepared or able to live like this? Are your children at an age where they might be able to understand at least some of this? It isn't going to be easy for any of you but if you want to change your life I would seek professional support and try and explain it. Maybe your wife suspects more than she is willing to admit...

Bear in mind that the Beaumont society can be a bit old fashioned, boardering on fuddy duddy.
Try the site www.transpartners.co.uk/.
You are TG and always will be. It won't go away.
You can always send me a message.

(TV/CD-transvestite/crossdresser-wears clothes of the opposite sex. TVs usually a bit more serious about it. TS-transsexual-wants to change sex. TG-transgender- covers all those categories and a few more.