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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Would you recommend contacting OW?

34 replies

toomanyeasterbunnies · 03/05/2011 13:37

I'm so angry today. H been having an affair and today I found out that some of the small details that he told me about it were lies and that also he had never used a condom with her. I am just so angry with him and I'm also livid at her and just want her to know what she has done. I've written a text just now and now I am starting to hesitate whether to send it. It would make me feel so much better but I am not sure if I would regret it.

Have you ever contact OW and did you regret it. I'm just full of anger right now.

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 03/05/2011 16:53

Well that's a start.

What does he say were his reasons for having an affair?

What are your core instincts telling you about his description of this affair as a mutual "bit of fun" with no feelings on either side involved?

You see, whereas I think some affairs do fall into that category, I hadn't gained the impression that this was one of them, at least not from your H's side. As I recall, the process of discovery all started when he delivered the usual speech of "I'm not in Love with you" and didn't he also go out of his way to contact the OW from a phone box, so that you wouldn't hear what he said or find out about the call?

I think I may have said on your original thread that on discovery, lots of involved spouses try to minimise the sex, the feelings or sometimes both. If he thought you would have found it more hurtful at the time to hear that he had genuine feelings for this woman, I wonder whether he thought it was better to pretend this was a "sex-only" affair? The problem however with this is that if that was a lie, you are a) trying to rebuild a marriage based on an untruth and b) trying unsuccessfully to rationalise this behaviour with the man you thought you knew and loved very well.

You don't know the OW, so you can't speculate about her feelings at all, but you do know your H. If this version of events doesn't sit easily with you and something doesn't ring true, then trust your instincts. If you think it is more likely that he had feelings for this woman (and the "I'm not in love" speech tends to be associated with perceived feelings for someone else after all) then I think you've got to get to the bottom of this with him.

I've often said that the lies people tell cast them in an even worse light than the truth, but I guess you've got to try to rationalise whether your H really is the sort of man who could have had no feelings for a sick woman over a period of 9 months - and whether that's someone you want to be with.

toomanyeasterbunnies · 03/05/2011 20:07

Well she does have cancer. I've just asked her in a very polite and restrained text. She replied that yes she had cancer when she saw H but she is now in remission. So I just wished her well in her recovery....I wanted to say so much more but just kept thinking about most of your advice about remaining dignified.

Anyway, where does this leave me now? As you have rightly put WWIFN, I need to work out in my head how my H could have no feelings for a sick woman he was shagging. It is making me very unsettled as I don't believe he could be so callous and then on the other hand he isn't the person I thought he was. I never even thought his morale character would allow him to be an adulterer. My honest opinion is that he has more feelings for her than he's letting on in order to "protect" me. On the other hand he insists it was just physical. arghhh...so confused!

OP posts:
greencaveman · 03/05/2011 20:19

Well done for remaining dignified. I remained dignified (met in person with OW once). If you are dignified and decent, the OW will eventually feel guilty about her actions. Anything less than dignified and you lose the moral high ground and justify the affair (in her mind).

How long is it since you discovered this affair? Personally, I needed to know all the details in order to "deal" with them. If you don't deal with all your feelings surrounding the affair, they will come back to bite you and healing will take much longer. Your H needs to understand that by sparing you the details that he thinks you find hurtful, he will actually hurt you more because he's not allowing you to deal with them.

Sorry. I know how much it all hurts.

toomanyeasterbunnies · 03/05/2011 20:36

greencaveman It's been just over a month since I found out. Previous Thread. I thought H had been telling me all the details but today after asking him some questions, he said how they ended up back at her place wasn't the same as he originally said. I obviously got upset that he had lied again and so he then said he now realises that he needs to be honest with me so that is when he told me about the unprotected sex. I just feel like I am back at square one as he already knew that I only wanted the truth. :(

OP posts:
carlywurly · 03/05/2011 20:48

Well done for being restrained. Don't now contact her again, no matter how much you want to. She is never going to be a reliable source of info, and you'll never feel you get all the answers you need. Don't put yourself through it.

I never contacted Ow, but practically had to sit on my hands to stop myself at times. I know she's shitting herself at the thought of ever bumping into me, as we haven't spoken since, she's no idea how I will be with her. (I will be calm and polite, but she doesn't need to know that!)

FWIW I agree with WWIFN - the OW's in these situations should have some accountability for their actions towards others. I personally believe it creates horrible karma to go round doing exactly as you wish without ever considering the feelings of anyone else.

Anyway, back to the OP. I think you should be very gentle on yourself. You've had an almighty shock, and have indeed discovered your DHisn't the man you thought he was. It will take time to work this through. At the end of the journey, you may decide you don't want him after all.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 03/05/2011 20:57

I really don't think you'll regret that very dignified exchange and as green said, your response is far more likely to induce guilt that a rant ever would have done.

I think your instincts are spot on about your H's feelings, but only because that fits with how he was pre-discovery and immediately afterwards - and because of what you are saying yourself from your knowledge of his character and personality.

What conversations have you had since the latest revelations?

What reasons is he able to give for why this happened?

When I asked you what was he doing, I meant in a proactive way i.e. will he have any counselling, has he read anything about infidelity, does he initiate conversations about it and most of all, is he fighting for you - as a romantic partner and not just to keep the status quo of marriage, children and shared assets? Has he talked to anyone about the affair?

I think in the early days especially, apart from getting the unvarnished truth, you need to see your H doing some really difficult things. On your last thread, it was evident that there were significant individual, lifestyle and social vulnerabilities present and that having come up for air after having 3 DCs in quick succession, your relationship had actually improved recently.

What's he doing to address all those vulnerabilities?

greencaveman · 03/05/2011 21:05

toomanyeasterbunnies - agree with carlywurly - be kind to yourself - it's only been 4 weeks so it is still terribly shocking and (to be blunt) much more time is needed. I am over a year after finding out about my DH's affair (with a colleague, our kids aged 3 and 1 at the time so similar sort of thing - my attention on DCs etc) and it does get much easier but only if he can be brave and straight enough to give you the whole truth and not hurt you bit by bit or floor you with new revelations in the future. In my case, I still cannot reconcile the actions of the OW - why she did it, what was going through her mind etc but it has ceased to matter to me - I have reconciled my DH's actions and that's what really matters. I think you need to understand why your DH did it and it's not really a question of just asking him because he may (still) be very confused and not actually be able to make a rational analysis of the events/situation. I found lots of stuff on MN very helpful. I started threads under different names as I was humiliated by what I was posting.

I am sure that someone has said this either in this thread or your other one, but (regardless of what was happening with you, the marriage etc) it was your DH who decided to cheat. He made the decision and is 100% responsible for that. Whist you are free to take partial responsibility for any marital problems if you think it's appropriate, your responsibility for this affair is zero.

toomanyeasterbunnies · 03/05/2011 21:33

WWIFN I'll try and answer some of your questions. What conversations have you had since the latest revelations? We've had very little conversation since he told me. It's been down to me though as he wanted to talk about it and I told him to go out as I was about to explode and say something I'd regret. Since he's been back I've been avoiding him. Just want to get things straight in my head first.

What reasons is he able to give for why this happened? He has told me he does not blame me at all for the affair. He said he was in "a dark place" and he thought I didn't love him and that he wasn't needed. He doesn't know why he didn't raise these issues at the time. When he first mentioned being unhappy after the affair started, I did make an effort to show him more attention but he has said he didn't notice any difference. However, I personally think that the affair would have completely overshadowed anything I had done to improve things. He was seeing what he wanted to see.

I also don't see how this time was so different from when my other DC were tiny and I devoted my time to them at the expense of H. Why did this time he go off with someone else? As you have mentioned before, it was probably the opportunity was there. Part of the revelation today was that he called her and arranged to meet her knowing that he would have sex with her as she mentioned having a threesome the first time he ever saw her. Shock

When I asked you what was he doing, I meant in a proactive way. He wants to go to counselling and we are waiting for an appointment. He has dipped into the Shirley Glass book twice as far as I know and has read small bits that I've highlighted. He was initiating conversations about it but this has since decreased over the past couple of weeks. He tells me almost every day how sorry he is. As far as I know he hasn't talked to anyone about it apart from me. He is very ashamed of what he has done. Only one set of our close friends know and that was only because I told them.

What's he doing to address all those vulnerabilities? This part hasn't been tested yet. I know he has declined going out with his own friends but in terms of travelling with work this has not been an issue yet.

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 04/05/2011 01:41

I have PMd you some stuff that might help you, OP.

The others are right - it is very early days. It is also true that your H won't yet understand all the thought processes and what things meant for some time.

However, I wanted to pick up on a couple of points. I may have said this on your original thread, but if he came to you after the affair was underway to tell you that he had grievances with your relationship, it is an astonishingly common manipulative trick, that even he might not have acknowledged he was doing at the time. It is so common in infidelity cases that I have coined it the "setting you up to fail" moment. This is is sometimes motivated by an unfaithful spouse needing to have an excuse for their imminent or continued infidelity, to give "fair warning" that the marriage is in peril or to have a convenient "I told you things were bad" excuse on discovery.

In reality, your H had absolutely no intention to improve your relationship by having this chat and all the efforts expected by him were going to be yours. I bet you'll recall that this conversation didn't include the efforts he would make to revitalise your marriage - and I bet you'll recall that in fact his efforts and attention worsened. That nothing you did in response to that chat seemed to make any difference.

If that chat had truly represented an honest attempt to improve your marriage, your H would have shared the responsibility, he would have obviously told the truth about his affair and the efforts you made would have been matched by his.

If he didn't come to you before he met the OW to say he was unhappy with your marriage, then I'm going to suggest that he wasn't unhappy at all. In more cases than you'd imagine, an affair causes marital unhappiness, not the other way around.

The only difference this time around (after your youngest's birth) was that he had the opportunity and the lifestyle that permitted it. You had the most enormous trust default too and infidelity was the last thing you would have suspected. I expect he thought that this was a fairly risk-free adventure when it started out - and didn't think it would cause the devastation it has.

I hope you get a good counsellor and don't have to wait too long. In the meantime, it will be helpful to keep up the lines of communication and talking. He really should read that book.

You might find it helpful to time-limit your conversations, but ensure you have them every day or so. Don't be afraid to take time out when your anger or upset overwhelms you. Don't be be afraid of your anger either - it's a really healthy, galvanising emotion, as long as it doesn't harm you and as long as it doesn't have the effect of making your H clam up and with-hold information you need to hear. The truth, although horrendously painful at times, needs to come out and ultimately, it will liberate you, because your imagination will be far worse.

But do bear in mind that people in the midst of an affair very often tell as many lies to themselves as they do to others. The truth he believes now might be very different a year on from now, when more distance and objectivity provides hindsight.

I'm going to give you an example of something that might be apposite. During the affair, your H might have told himself that this was just about sex and it was therefore not threatening to your marriage. He may have believed he was compartmentalising the two worlds successfully. However, in reality he might have actually been what Shirley Glass calls a monogamous infidel, of which there are various shades.

At the most extreme end, the monogamous infidel cannot share intimacy with two people and the attachment to the affair partner is so great that having sex with one's spouse is regarded as the greater infidelity. At the other extreme, the person cannot share sexual and romantic intimacies with an affair partner if he keeps up the strong connection to the spouse he has always previously adored. He has no strong emotional attachment to the affair partner, but he literally cannot have an affair with someone else while there is a strong connection to his spouse, so he seeks to reduce it to allow the affair partner in, if only for a short time.

People in this latter category often speak of how marital intimacy would feel "unfair" to their wives, or receiving love and affection from the spouse they are betraying would feel "wrong somehow". At one end of this continuum therefore, the attachment to the affair partner is greater, at the other, the spousal connection is stronger, but what provides the common denominator is that monogamous infidels cannot compartmentalise to save their lives.

This is often subconscious, especially the latter extreme, but what the person is completely oblivious to is the damage this is causing to his marriage, because it becomes obvious that there is a disconnection, even if the trusting spouse doesn't know why. Usually, she will blame it on work stresses and so will he, if confronted. Some of that, he will even believe himself, because he simply won't confront that he isn't compartmentalising this at all, in reality.

On discovery, it is sometimes only when the recovering couple share their stories; the individual and very different stories of the past 9 months in your case, that greater understanding is achieved. Your H would really benefit from hearing what your life has been like for the past 9 months. One of the best things you can do to prepare yourself for that conversation therefore is to re-construct the story of your life since last summer, only this time with the information you now have. Betrayed spouses often have a compelling need to fill the gap in their life history - to accurately record a chapter of their life when they were being deceived.

It is part of the process that Shirley Glass discusses when she suggest you co-construct the story of the affair and what life was really like for each of the protagonists in the triangle - and the collateral effects on others, such as the DCs, friends and extended family members.

Your H might therefore be lying to himself in part when he says this was a sex-only affair, but I suspect some of this is also to spare your feelings and to minimise his own culpability and how much he risked. It can be a slow process with lots of denials and battles, but it might need to start with you giving your H permission to be honest about any feelings he had for the OW and how they reduced towards you in inverse proportions, as a result.

As you will see from the Shirley Glass book and the stories, many people find some peace when they finally settle on a version of events that makes sense, both in terms of the evidence all before them - and their knowledge of their partner and his attachment style. Many people are able to forgive their partner having infatuation-type feelings for someone else, or even very strong feelings, because it accords with what they know about their partner and is often more permissible and understandable in the end than someone who was a compartmentaliser and utterly devoid of feelings or kindness towards the woman he was having sex with.

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