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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I abusive??

19 replies

bejeezus · 29/04/2011 20:15

I am really looking for some reassurance, but am seriously worried about this so please be totally frank with me;

Ive been trying to work out, probably for a few years now if my dh is being emotionall abusive. I feel abused. but there is nothing very obvious/serious going on. he is an alcoholic (not had a drink for 3 years- I wouldnt say he is sober, is the term dry-drunk?). weve been together for 10 years. He doesnt take care of me emotionally or financially or practically. I do all house work, child care, work full time, pay bills - he contributes minimal money and behaves like a single man, coming and going as he please. I feel that he is very manipulative and has a bit of a victim mentality. However, he says he behaves like this because I have been horrid to be with- I try to control him and treat him like a dog, in his words.

Ive started reading Lundy Bancrofts book- and it is ME that does the name calling- i do this because i get angry that I am being so disrespected and taken advantage of. but thats no excuse is it? I also did go through a period when he was drinking badly and staying out, when I would punch him in the arm...again I felt so frustrated and angry. I just wanted him to LISTEN to me. its horrible isnt it.

ive never been like this in any previous relatonships. ive rarely felt the need to even argue with my partners before my dh. I certainly never had any intention of being controlling and I didnt want to make him feel degraded. Is it subconscious if you are an abuser?

OP posts:
OnlyMe1971 · 29/04/2011 20:34

Hiya Bejezus,

You have showed abusive behaviours, yes, but this does not mean that you are automatically an "abusor". Personally I think this issue is not so black and white. I have been in a relationship in the past with a guy who was sometimes abusive towards me, as in, he would say "shutup" or "f-off" and whilte it was vile, it was usually when he was very very angry, often pushed to being so angry by me, and always regretted it afterwards. He never, ever laid a finger or me, or behaved threateningly in any way. We finished because I was not in love with him anymore.

Anyway, my point is, that some people might have deemed him an abusor, but I personally do not think that he was. He just got very angry and frustrated at times, and then lost his temper.

So you could be abusing your oh (who sounds extremely trying in my opinion), or you could just be reacting badly to an already horrible situation.

Sounds like your relationship has become a bit toxic. I would say you need to address the dynamic between you with a counsellor, if you and your DH are ready for something like that.

Best of luck, hope it works out.

maighdlin · 29/04/2011 20:44

you are not an abuser. he is just a selfish moany bastard who hasn't gown up.

bejeezus · 29/04/2011 20:44

thanks onlyme we are in the process of divorcing. but may see a counsellor for myself-Ive never thought counselling would be all thta effectivei dont usually have any problems knowing myself-It must work though, so many people go for counselling.

I fell really dirty about this

OP posts:
blackeyedsusan · 29/04/2011 20:48

there really is no excuse for hitting him (except self defense)

mrspnut · 29/04/2011 20:49

I always think it is helpful to look here for what is a normal relationship.

If you can tick more boxes on one side or the other then it gives you an indication of where you are.

bejeezus · 29/04/2011 21:42

maighdlin--lol--i am really hoping that is the conclusion that i can come to.

looking at mrspnuts chart...i have more friend characteristics than dominator, and he has more dominator traits than friend

but like besusan says, there really is no excuse for hitting

i cant believe how unclear my view of what is normal, has become

OP posts:
HerHissyness · 29/04/2011 21:43

bejeezus, you are in the process of ending all this? well that is it then, you know it's over, it's more than over, you are impatient for him to go, for you to be able to get on with a decent, peaceful and tranquil life. For too long he has taken all your energy and for what in return? NOTHING, and actually worse than nothing as he's been abusive on top.

I was exactly the same. when I realised what he had done to me for all that time, when I realised that he had abused me, belittled me and tried to destroy me, I stopped covering for him. I stopped keeping quiet and I stopped letting him walk all over me.

I do confess to having slung stuff of his in a bin bag, of holding the door and telling him to get the fuck out of my home, and I did once throw a brush at him to stop him shouting abuse at me in earshot of DS (Blush)

He called me abusive, because it's a technique they use to get us to modify our behaviour back to being submissive. But the genie is out of the bottle, there is now no going back. Of course I checked myself, but I still called him out on every lie, every snide comment or ridiculous act that weirdo pulled.

You know this shouty person is not you, it's the frustration, the fear, the grief, the disappointment of the relationship coming to an end and there is nothing you could ever have done to change it.

Try to remain calm, for your own sake. It'll be over soon love, and you will be able to get back to the business of being you, happy you, free you and calm you.

garlicbutter · 29/04/2011 23:26

I'm going to try and give you a complicated answer quite quickly (and drunkly!) so you'll just have to tell me if it hasn't come out right.

My XH divorced me for emotional abuse. Everything he said was true; I was abusive. He wasn't in love with me at any point - god knows why he married me - and he is a manipulative, insane control freak. I'm not suprised I acted like a screeching Valkyrie half the time we were together. However ... a saner woman wouldn't have married the nutjob in the first place. A saner woman, had she made that first (er, hundredth!) mistake, would have left him on our wedding day, when he was really insulting, or very soon afterwards.

I was not a saner woman. All of my life until then had been 'training' for that disaster of a marriage. Only I didn't know it then, I only figured it out in therapy. So, yes, I think your idea of getting a counsellor is a very good one :)
And, no, you're not an abuser. You're reacting. Hurray for the Freedom Programme's chart, and well done mrspnut.

Go well, bejeezus, you'll be glad you did :)

beingsetup · 30/04/2011 08:33

I would call it passive agression on his part- coming and going is not respecting you.

Not supporting you emotionally or practically or financially is terrible and he is letting down his side of your partnership.

I'm wondering what, if anything, you get out of this relationship? If you are worried about being abusive try acting. Your current behaviour isn't changing the relationship, and to be honest it sounds like there is nothing worth saving. So make a plan and get out. Try the silent treatment, as he quite obviously enjoys you screaming and getting upset, I'm sure he's doing it on purpose. Take your power back, and don't let him further bully you by telling you you are behaving badly, when quite obviously, he is.

I'm sure after a week or two of total silence, he is either going to explode or walk away. But you will be controlling the relationship instead of him.....

bejeezus · 30/04/2011 09:17

thanks hissy, garlic and being setup.

I really have always thought that I am reacting to the way I have been treated; but thta is the excuse HE is using for his behaviour too! I will find it harder to stomach if I am the abuser rather than the abused. I feel like I am a bit of a fog....I have read the term 'gaslighting' (is that right?) I feel as if that is what has happened to me?? Does your head become clear after they have gone Hissy? Im going to try counselling.

BSU- the relationship is in the process of being ended. Haha! I tried the silent treatment- he didnt care whether I was speaking to him or not. He only really ever spoke to me anyway if he needed my help. I tried every way I could think of to change things- I tried being extra extra nice instead of getting angry/upset - but he has an amazing capacity for taking, without giving. I dont have any thing left. I have no desire to control the relationship

OP posts:
beingsetup · 30/04/2011 10:16

If I remember gaslighting includes:-

Misremembering conversations that never happened
Twisting everything you say to make you look crazy/evil/unhinged
Starting arguments about random things
Making you second guess yourself and doubt your sanity

amongst others

There is no way to deal with a gaslighter apart from to leave them, or make a note of every single thing they say and query it which would be time consuming and draining....

Well done on leaving, there is someone out there who will treat you well and with respect and actually want to be in a relationship with you.

See it as having a lucky escape - 20 more years of that? No way!

blackeyedsusan · 30/04/2011 10:25

he is not worth hitting. don't get yourself into trouble for him. SOrry couldn't think of more to say before. It is not doing you any good staying with him..

LittleEasterHouse · 30/04/2011 10:29

Hi bejeezus

If you go back to Lundy Bancroft you will find he dismisses the possibility of women being abusers as exceedingly rare in his experience outside same sex relationships.

I have been where you are and accepted my behaviour was abusive due to years of resentment and bottled up anger. But I was not per se "an abuser" just and unhappy and desperate person. My H is clever manipulative and always in the right, and in the end it was just easier to take all the blame for ending the relationship and go.

Guess what? After 8 months apart from him I am back to the sunny happy patient person I know I am, haven't been angry or shouted once in all that time. It wasn't me it was him!

You don't need to understand exactly what is happening between you to know it is unhealthy and making you miserable. Just make an exit plan. You will be okay!

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 30/04/2011 11:38

Being angry with someone who is behaving very badly towards you (a dishonest alcoholic parasite, for instance) doesn't make you abusive. You will be fine once you've got rid of this knob. How long before you can make him leave, or leave yourself?

FabbyChic · 30/04/2011 11:42

YOu have responded to him in this way because you see that he is not manning up to his responsibilities, and he is a leach financially and emotionally.

You gave in the relationship and he took.

BodyUnknown · 30/04/2011 15:26

Hi Bejeezus

I could have written your post. I am also in a relationship with an alcoholic (who has finally stopped drinking during the day, but I do have my doubts sometimes), and I am the only earner with sole responsibility for the bills, the rent and the housework.

He stays home all day, ostensibly as a SAHD although this was never the planned set-up - we were both supposed to be working and DD would be in the care of family part of the time, and nursery the rest. Unfortunately, and largely due to the alcohol problem, DP has never held down a job for longer than a few months, and although he is supposed to be doing all he can to look for work as I cannot sustain us financially alone, he has never in two years managed to find work for himself (and is now not even bothering to look).

I wanted to reply to your post because I ask myself your question ALL the time. I, too, call my partner names when I am at the end of my tether - I have variously said that he is useless and a deadweight and have found myself crying with frustration at him. It makes me feel like I am losing my mind, as I have never, ever felt the need to insult any partner of mine in the past.

He tells me I am vicious, a right fucking bitch, and that because I am so clever I can use words against him, and all he can do is retaliate in his own way by storming off or getting drunk.

I would say, with biased eyes I suppose since I am in what seems like such a similar relationship to yours, that you are not an 'abuser'. It seems to me like the behaviour you worry about being abusive is entirely reactive. You have been taken for a complete ride, your ex partner sounds like an absolute leech, and in the circumstances it is not remotely surprising that your sheer frustration causes you to lash out in the only way you can. Bejeezus, honestly, my DP says exactly the same thing yours does, that HIS shit behaviour is in reaction to mine - but I have not so completely lost sight of myself that I would believe that, and neither should you. It's pretty obvious - look at all the things you have to react TO (the drinking, the lack of respect, the taking you for granted) - it's not you.

It's absolute rubbish for him to say that you are horrible to be with. Why, you have provided him with a house, with food, you've kept the place clean and brought up his children, and he is for some reason not satisfied? I think it's incredible that you lasted as long as you did, and I fully expect that when this awful divorce is over, you will become the kind, content, confident woman you no doubt were before this loser came in and walked all over you.

I also find myself using exactly your turn of phrase - I cannot believe how fucked up my view of what is normal has become. I am also in the process of leaving, and whilst I'm getting all my arrangements sorted so that the break can be clean and quick, I already notice the change in myself. I'm happier, I'm optimistic about my future, and I no longer feel the relentless helplessness and frustration that I've become so accustomed to, that I lost sight of what a normal relationship should be like.

You already made the decision to leave this drain on your emotional and financial wellbeing. That is good. I think you should not torture yourself over whether you are an abuser or not - just be glad that it's over, and look to your future.

Diggs · 30/04/2011 21:59

This is a very common concern for women involved in abusive relationships , it gets worse when you start reading these books because you always see some of your own charecter in them .

Its not talked about , but i think this happens a lot when you live with an emotional abuser who ignores you or doesnt respect you ect. I also dont think its an accidant , i think they push and push and continue engaging in shit behaviour until you lose control . I think this happens more if theyve got a victim mentality then they can bleat about being abused , and because were decent we end up apologizing which they love , as they can then forgive you . They do these things to deliberateley piss you off and knowing they have the power to make you snap gives them great satisfaction.

It sounds like you are reacting rather than being abusive . An observer of my marriage might have seen me and ex chatting quite reasonable and calmly . They might have heard me raise some issue , and ex quietly and calmly refuse to discuss it , or go into great long detail about why my opinion wasnt vaild ( politeley and calmly ). They might have then seen me explode with rage and shout and swear . It would look totally unreasonable, only i had been raising that issue for the last ten years and got sick of being ignored .

Emotional abusers are insiduous and snidey . You know you are being abused but they dont actually seem to do anything thats outright abusive. Its all mind games and power trips and a twisting of words and events . It can be hard to pull them on any of their behaviours , as they reason them away as being thoughtless or inconsiderate .

bejeezus · 30/04/2011 22:33

thanks everyone- whilst i am sorry for those of you that have been through the same sh*t, it is reassuring to hear that its not uncommon for the abuser to try and turn it round.

And LittleEasterHouse, it is even more reassuring to read that you have regained yourself- and after only 8 months - wow, well done

SpringChicken - not sure when he will be leaving; it was supposed to be the end of March...then the end of April - gah! he wants his name off the mortgage before he moves out...and he wants his share of the equity before he takes his name off the mortgage (HIS SHARE/?/??!!) Anyway, its not a lot of money...were fighting over principal rather than cash here---so Im on the verge of agreeing to his ludicrous self-entitled demand (just one last time!!) to make it quicker...

BSup---yes, it appears I have been gas-lamped then. He is ALWAYS saying that I have said something thta I havent!

Also, he always thinks I have some ulterior motive, a devious plan. Im quite an open and straight forward person and I say what I mean so i find all his twisting and turning really confusing. Eg I have said 'this is sht, I dont like you, you dont like me, we are miserable, we are in danger of damaging the kids. We NEED to seperate and my prefered scenario is thta you leave and I stay in the house with the DDs' He replies ' Ahhh...I know what your game is, you've been planning this for years' WTF?! He says thta I was only using him to have children and I always wanted to be a single parent, so thta I could claim benefits and give up work because I am lazy!!-yes, its an ideal life plan thta isnt it????? (btw-i like work and have no intention of living on benefits)....that doesnt sound that awful now Ive written it down, but its just part of many other ridiculous thouht and feelings thta he accuses me of owning. i am someone who will examine my PoV if challenged and because he is always telling me stuff like this; i started to think thta he must be really insightful and I must be holding these ideas subconsciously (otherwise, why on earth would he be telling me this stuff ALL THE TIME??). I used to get really sad and confused that after 10 years of marriage he didnt know me at allhaha!! its looking like he actually knew me after all (FKING W*KER). I dont know him mind; he feels like a shape-shifter to me

Well done on leaving, there is someone out there who will treat you well and with respect and actually want to be in a relationship with you.---are you kidding me??? I think I will remain single and collect cats and jam-jars into my old age!

Sorry- RANT RANT RANT!! Blush Angry Sad

Body Unknown- Im glad you are getting out too. Its really hard to get to this point. Im feeling optimistic about the future- mostly, i think- I still have giant wobbles, but its mostly about how splitting up is going to affect DDs. And this kind of sh*t, that made me start the thread. Keep in touch, if you like- we might be able to help each other

OP posts:
bitbybitbybit · 01/02/2015 21:04

Anybody still on this thread. I know it's been a while but ive just realised myself im dealing with a gaslighter.
Bejeezus would be good to know how you're doing now? And anybody else in a similar situation too
x

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