Is not being in love a good enough reason....

[StopShoutingAtYourBrother]

I would appreciate your thoughts and experiences to help me during a difficult time.

Is not being in love a good enough reason to end a marriage, when there are two young children involved? The relationship is otherwise stable and (as much as can be in circumstance) stable, but the attraction and the love has disappeared and the two parents are more like good friends really.

Thanks.

It depends, for some they want the closeness, sex, love that they may be able to find with someone else.

I think initially it would be okay to stay together, but at some point one partner is going to want more.

How old are the children? I have found ime that young children can zap the energy out of you enough to make you feel that you are out of love, whereas actually you just don't have the energy to put into each other.

They are 2.5 and 1. The sex is crap, though honestly I'm not convinced it was ever that good.

the sex being crap isn't a good sign, has it always been shite?

Do not underestimate the power of sleep deprivation and the drudgery that comes with the first year or two of raising a child.
You have been in this space now for 3.5 years - it would be more surprising if you were swinging from the chandeliers to be honest.

Maybe a bit of time apart or some counselling might help?

DH and I went to relate for a year, and then we started a trial separation. He has been living elsewhere for 6 months now and I'm not certain we can patch things up but am hopeful. I miss him, and didn't realise how much I do love him until we had space and, as he has the boys 2 nights a week, a chance to catch up on my sleep.

I thought I didn't love him anymore, and that I would never want to have sex. We hadn't more than about 4 times within the year before he moved out. DS2 was 1 when he left.
We now meet up and are talking much more, and the sex is great. We are reconnecting but it is very hard - I have 3 dc's to look after and doing it alone is difficult. For us, the split is helping as it is giving us both chance to see that we miss each other and space to work at our individual issues BUT this situation gives me no guarantee that it will work out, and gives me no helping hand with the children on a stressful day ... DD is 16 and a huge help.

Do you have a good support network? Would you both consider relate? Does he feel the same or see that there is a big problem?

One thing I have learned is that good sex starts in the mind - if you don't think you love him and don't think it will be good, you won't relax and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Thank you for your messages. Having two young children is tiring but they sleep very well at night (touch all sorts of talismans) so it's just during the day it is hard work.

Iif I'm honest I'm not sure I love him, or want to love him for that matter. The sex has never been on fire partially because the intimacy isn't there.

I'm torn. If I didn't have children I would leave. I'm certain of it but I do and I suppose I have such a sense of duty to them because whilst husband has his faults so do i and he's not a bad person. Part of me wants to just hide away....

How old are you both? How long together? Do you work or SAHM?

As others say the sheer work of raising children often means that you lose sight of who you are as people. Relationships often suffer as a result, good sex can be as a result of good communication and the reverse is true.

Also if individuals are unhappy it's hard to be happy in a relationship. I think if you have 2 children you should invest in the marriage and make the effort to see what you can do to improve the relationship.

A good question often asked in counselling is - what can you do to improve the relationship/sex - focus on what you can do (not on what the other person can do).

Why do you think you would be happier alone? This might help you understand what is missing from the marriage.

Its a very hard decision what to do.

Most posters on Mumsnet seem to think you shouldnt stay together - that both partners will be eventually unhappy and that you bring children up in a cool relationship which skews them for life as they havent been brought up in a truly loving intimate relationship as their model.

Traditionally down the centuries though couples did stay together - its only really been an option not to on the last 50 years for most people in UK.

So yes a very hard decision. Sorry you are in this position

I think it is terribly encouraging that you are 'good friends' with your partner. Please don't under-estimate the value of having this mutual respect and common ground.

With young children involved, it doesn't strike me as at all surprising that you are struggling to sustain sexual attraction and perhaps romantic love - although I do appreciate how desperately painful this feels. Before thinking about searching for emotional intimacy and sexual fulfilment with a new partner, I would consider how to reawaken the love in your current relationship. Leaving is a drastic measure.

Given the depth of your friendship with your partner and the positive terms in which you speak of him, I have a hunch that he cares deeply for you. Having said that, many men feel overwhelmed by the responsibility of a young family and need to be virtually dragged into romantic intimacy at such a time. If this is the case for you, I don't think you have a problem with your partner as such - it's just the way men work when left to their own devices!

I suggest you don't go!

Perhaps you should consider what it will be like in twenty years time when the children have grown up and the pair of you will be together alone.
Are you happy with that thought?

Thanks again for your messages.

I work, and I'm very lucky because although I'd need financial support for childcare costs I would be able to manage financially otherwise (even if it would be tight). This gives me options.

I think i've over-emphasized the good part of friends. I respect his opinion in certain areas but in others becomes out with stuff that makes me cringe. As with everything there is a whole back story i've not gone into. I've not talked to any of my real life friends about this tho they know things have been rocky. I suppose with small children I believe you don't walk away lightly, you see if you can make it work, but staying in an unfulfiling marriage is not an option either because ultimately it will bring it's own set of problems.

The things which bother me now bothered me before children but for some reason now my patience threshold is substantially lower. As for twenty years.... It depresses the shit out of me. Ican't see that future :( on the other hand I don't know how much of this is normal and i simply need to get to the other side. Two small children, a demanding job and the other demands of life.....

I think people can only give you the benefit of their experiences and you have to take from that what you want.

When DH and I were struggling last year I just wanted out. I am able to support myself and the dc's in the main, which does make it easier as it gives you options. The flip side though is that you do have that option - in that you don't have to try to make it work as you can't afford not to if that makes sense?
Had you asked me last year if I could see us together in 20 years I would have shuddered but now it is different.

Nobody is perfect which you do acknowledge ... your patience threshold is lower as you now have two other people to look after and so don't have the time/energy/patience to put up with whatever crap it is that is bothering you.

How did you feel when you met him? How long have you been together? When you married, did you think it was forever? I had doubts before my wedding as we had issues, but we also already had DS1 which changes things.

The issues I had stayed with us for years and it was only when we were in relate and I started talking about a temporary separation that things started to change. We have now been living apart for 6 months and both of us are changing, and for the better. For the first time in a very long time we are communicating and being very honest about what we want, even if it's not what the other wants to hear. At the moment we are both trying to make it work, whether it will or not is another matter.
Neither of us believe in staying together for the sake of the dc's and so have done our utmost to put the dc's first - they have coped brilliantly with the split as we have done it very amicably. We have engineered the situation now such that if we don't manage to fix it, the dc's see us getting on and we are able to do things together as a family. We also are both happy individually with the relationship we each have with the dc's and the amount they see us both.

What the split has done for me though is make me realise that I do love him and miss him. With space comes relief from tension and a relief from always feeling irritated and angry. It has also brought the realisation of my part in all this and how I contributed to the situation. Relate has been brilliant in helping me see things from a different perspective to my own.