Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

what rights will the father of my baby have

39 replies

YummyMummyBella · 19/04/2011 08:53

My partner (unmarried) and I are expecting out first baby and have been having a horrific time at the moment. I won't go into it but he's hardly been there for me during the pregnancy, acts like he doesn't care and isn't treating me with the love and respect I feel I deserve. We were arguing once again yesterday and I told him I don't want him around anymore. His reply was that if I take his son away he'll take me to court. I continued to say he has no rights as we are unmarried. He became very nasty and was saying things like he has a stable family (my parents are divorced, his aren't), my mother is unfit (she has a treatable slipped disk) and so on. Well its got me thinking, what rights would he have if I was to walk away from him? I obviously don't want to do this and I do believe we can work things out but its always good to know what could happen.
Thanks ladies! X

OP posts:
smallmotherbigheart · 20/04/2011 23:08

He will still have rights of access but he should be warned that his legal entitlement will be limited compared to if he comprises with you. Also, you two might not have a great relationship, but if he proves himself as a worthy father I would say at least thats a positive.

At the end of the day, it is your body and I would never advise you to risk your sense of well being for someone who doesnt care for you, even when his baby is present inside you. People often forget that although you are carrying the child, it is also his responsibility to ensure that you are well as you did not create this child on your own. So, if you need to, take your two weeks away and spend it happily. After all, if he walks away its you who will pick up the pieces, and no government intervention is really going to help you solve that. Just take care of your happiness right now and focus on yourself. If he's going to be a good parent he will do so x

perfectstorm · 21/04/2011 05:44

Finallygotaroundtoit, I disagree. A child's relationship with their father should not be dependent upon the mother's personal feelings towards that father, IMO, and as long as the father is not being unpleasant and causing stress at the scans (and it is pretty explicit here that he is not - I agree that anything that stresses a pregnant woman should be avoided if at all possible, and that nobody has a right to be at the birth, come what may) then yes, actually, I think it important he attend. Bonding starts in utero for most women, and many men. You may feel it has to be two-way, but I disagree. I don't think it does at all. Just speak to anyone who has had a stillbirth. The notion you can't bond because it wasn't two-way doesn't hold up, I don't think. It seems a very rigid definition.

And a father's right to be on a child's birth certificate should not be dependent on the mother's whims, either. If the father is abusive, then no, he doesn't have that right, but otherwise I have no idea on this planet as to how you can justify that statement. The birth certificate is a formal recognition of someone's parentage and identity. It is not an ownership document. I find the failure to separate out the needs and rights of the child, and the needs and wishes of the mother inherent in regarding it as such to be, quite bluntly, repugnant. Short of actual abuse, nobody outside has the right to determine what does or does not go on inside a relationship, and you are advising a real person here on decisions that may affect her child for life, with an awful lot of conclusions being leapt to on very sparse information.

Solid I agree, but we don't have a scrap of evidence that that is what this guy is doing. All we have is: heated row in which he said if she tried to take the child away completely he'd go to court. Yes, that is arsey and not remotely constructive; no, of course he shouldn't have said it, but it was apparently in response to being told by his pregnant gf that she was dumping him and that he had no rights concerning the baby, as they weren't married. People in relationship breakdowns have horrible fights. Hell, people in relationships do. I am, truly, not an advocate for women meekly taking shit. I've told women on MN a stack of times to get shot of aggressive, scary, or just abusive men. But we don't have enough info here, IMO, to say that's what is happening. I think it's a bad idea to encourage someone to take huge steps without asking for more info (not saying you, specifically, just in general). Obviously some men use the legal system to bully and harass exes and don't give an airbourne fornication about their kids, but frankly I think it helps everyone if people considering a breakup, when kids are involved, don't start off antagonists. If at all possible. And while I am well aware some men make that impossible (vivid memories of my father swearing down the phone at my mother for no good reason, a decade after he married someone else) I think asssuming that a poster's P or H is that type and advising accordingly is a bit iffy.

perfectstorm · 21/04/2011 05:51

"TBH it is not that fucking difficult to refrain from stalking and threatening your former partner or to acceptwhat contact you are offered without launching lawsuit after lawsuit purely to make your XP dance around to your tune"

Again, obviously I agree... but can you find me anything in this post that remotely suggests any such scenario? They've not even split up yet, it seems. They just had a nasty scrap after a horrible few months, and it may be on the cards. (And OP, I think that 2 week break is a brilliant idea. Spoil yourself rotten, relax, and have a lovely time.)

CheerfulYank · 21/04/2011 06:06

I know a few men who are shit husbands/boyfriends but good dads.

There's no reason for him to be around you while you're pregnant if you don't want him to be, but if he'll be a good father I would see no reason to deny him.

Once the children are born, they're not property. One of my good friends went on a (drunken) rant once about how she would keep the DCs away from their father if he ever cheated on her. I tried to tell her this was both a terrible thing to do (he's a good dad) and not legal , but she was having none of it.

Congrats on your pregnancy, OP, and good luck to you. :)

gillybean2 · 21/04/2011 06:31

Wow, so much confusion here as to what is the actual situation.

OP basically neither you or your baby's father have any rights over your child. What you both have are responsibilities. Parental Responsibilities often refered to as PR.
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/ParentsRights/DG_4002954

The only person with any rights is the child and yes they do have a right to know both their parents and have contact with both. A court of law will uphold this right on behalf of the child if you can not come to an agreement between you both (where it is wanted by the father and there are no welfare concerns). However a father can not be forced to have contact if he doesn't want it (or to turn up even if he says he wants it).

You will automatically have PR as the mother. As you are unmarried your partner can obtain PR either by attending the registration of the birth and agreeing to his name being included (this can only be done if he comes with you), or by you agreeing to him having PR and signing an agreement, or by him going to court to obtain it if you refuse. Courts generally grant PR unless there are significant welfare reasons against it.

You can name the baby whatever you like. And that includes giving baby your surname even if dad is on the birth certificate. Please think carefully about that choice. There are many questions in the lone parent thread about how to get a baby's surname changed after splitting with the dad and there can be issues at school (they will call you Mrs whatever your child's surname is regardless) or while travelling abroad if your child has a different surname to you. The reality is that a surname is incredible hard to have changed unless the father agrees to it and a court is unlikely to grant it. So please look into it and think carefully if you decide to give your baby his dad's surname while it seems your relaitionship won't last.

There is lots of info on the lone parent boards here eg on what kind of contact level is suitable for a small baby, when to step it up, overnights etc.
I suggest you get reading there as you'll find many issues arise both during pegnancy and after and by and large your questions will have been answered there before most likely. You'll also find a whole host of other issues will arise so it may give you a heads up on what to expect and help you feel a bit better informed when he says he'll take you to court etc so you can respond with facts.

Best wishes and congratulations on your pregnancy.

gillybean2 · 21/04/2011 06:38

One more thing. You can add your baby's father's name to the birth certificate at a later date should you decide to do this. Don't feel you have to put him on there immediately if you're not sure. There are several issues you need to consider in this decision.

PR can be used by some abusive fathers to keep control over their ex partner and make life difficult for them. You also may want to wait and see if your partner does step up to the role and take on his responsibilities before agreeing to him having them legally. Or wait for him to take it to court to get it and he will have to show a degree of commitment if he does go to court (including paying maintenance). PR is rarely removed once it is granted, so once he has it he has it forever basically.

Maintenance is payable whether he is named on the birth certificate or not. It is also payable whether there is contact or not. You can't refuse or with hold contact just because he won't pay maintenance. And he can't expect contact just because he pays it either, or with hold it to try and force contact.

Come to the lone parent board. There is much you need to know :)

FabbyChic · 21/04/2011 07:33

Personally irrespective of personal relationships, I never think a child should be used as a pawn. Fathers should have the right to see their children whether a woman likes it or not, barring if he is violent and abusive.

Just because he doesn't pamper you enough and do what you think is acceptable does not give you the right to take away his child so he never sees it, that is just plain wrong.

hairylights · 21/04/2011 08:52

Sorry but it's not about what he deserves. He's the father and you'd be very unreasonable to not let him participate in scans . Sounds very tit fir tat. And when parents separate they should start at a 50/50 point on residence and childcare. Of course he has rights! It's his child foo. Fgs talk to him.

gillybean2 · 21/04/2011 09:03

He does NOT have rights. He has responsibilities to the child.
It's up to him whether he fulfills those responsibilities or not. Some dad's do, some don't.

Your relationship (or lack of) with him needs to be separate from that of him and his child. You can't dictate or assume he has no say just because he's an arse doesn't treat you the way you'd like. It is horribly tough to deal with, especially when things between you are bad and you possibly feel like hurting him. But as a mother you need to put your child's welfare and right to a relationship with both their parents before your own feelings on him.

Of course you want him to be a decent person and treat you nicely, especially when you are pregnant. But if he's not doing that now is he ever going too? And just because he is like that with you doesn't mean he will be the same with his child.

He has responsibilities as a father, but so do you as a mother. One of which is ensuring baby has a relationship with his dad and assisting in his right to have that relationship. That's baby's right to it and not dad's right...

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 21/04/2011 09:19

I am not saying the the man in this situation is abusive, merely pointing out the OP's right to keep him out of her life if this does turn out to be the case, as abusive men often like to convince their victims that the victim can never be free of the man's control if he is the father of any of her DC.
, that he will be able to take the DC away from her, that she can't keep him out of her home if he wants to come in, etc.

Ithinki8abee · 19/04/2017 20:15

If the father is a decent caring human being then he should be treated as such and not demonised just because your carrying. If he still wants to have a lot to do with the baby then isn't that the best for the child, obviously so long as everyone is safe and in no danger. I just cant understand why cutting someone off or stopping them from having a family part to play will help at all.

Haffiana · 19/04/2017 20:24

Zombie thread alert...!

NoFuckingRoomOnMyBroom · 19/04/2017 20:36

Do you know, I am finding myself wondering how people come across these threads from so long ago, just how much time do some folks have on thier hands?!?
Seems to be quite a few ancient zombie threads being resurrected recently Hmm

Willow2017 · 19/04/2017 21:03

Oh ffs, again?
Who the hell goes looking for all these ancient threads to start them up again? Why waste your time giving advice to someone years after the event?

There are loads at the moment.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page