What is "normal / acceptable" please

[FedUpCantKickoff]

I have decided that I'm totally confused when it comes to what is normal / acceptable in a relationship and what isn't. Obviously physical violence is not acceptable. Verbal abuse, shouting, putting down, silent treatment, accusations (false), controlling behaviour. My possibly stbxh used to have these arguments with me where he would browbeat me until I was crying and then comfort me. The thing is I know that not seeing eye to eye with someone does not necessarily mean that the relationship should be shelved. (On some things, as long as you can work round them), but how much upset is acceptable, or is it a case of "as much as you can take?" and it's a personal thing. Some people do put up with being abused / hit regularly. But I want something different. I want my home to be a place of respite, not at war zone, because my job is pretty stressful, and it's still usually better than being at home. I once said to someone: "I have to put up with that at home, I'm buggered if I'm going to take it at work too." They said "You shouldn't have to put up with it anywhere." Any thoughts? Also I need to get out and am stuck.

Well none of us behave ourselves perfectly all the time, so the occasional bout of shouting, sulking or unreasonableness is probably to be expected in a long term relationship, and getting the wrong end of the stick can happen too. However it sounds as if this sort of behaviour isn't occasional at all in your relationship but part of a pattern of behaviour in which case it's not acceptable at all. In a good relationship both parties should feel supported and loved and that they (most of the time) want to be together.

From your colleagues comments it sounds as if your husband's behaviour is fairly extreme (I'm assuming you work in an environment where you have abusive clients?) and I'm guessing you know that too. I don't have any advice about getting out, but I'm sure people will be along with some ideas for you.

Well I've got a friend who is quite hard work at times in terms of moods and being erratic etc, but there's enough good stuff to balance it out and at no time does it get turned into a personal attack, and also I do feel that my opinion matters and we discuss things, there's no dictatorship involved.

Are you still together with your husband?

Can you give an example of the kind of argument?

I would say if you are feeling that you need to watch what you are saying, tread on eggshells, then the relationship needs reassessing.

Browbeating until you cry - why is that not emotional abuse?

One thing you could begin to change it is the pattern. If he is the one than upset you do not allow him to be the one who comfort you too. I think that really can screw up your head. I think it would be healthier to stop the argument and remove yourself, and find solace in friends, by yourself, with relatives or professional (on here too! ;-)
I guess that the making up is the nice part of an argument but I have read/seen this type of advice given over and over and I feel it is right (pls other poster feedback) It is a pattern that must be broken and will allow to have a clearer head and picture of what is going on.

Browbeating until you cry - why is that not emotional abuse?

it is indeed!!!!

I recognise how you are feeling. I put up with an awful lot from H for several years after dc arrived. I thought it was 'normal'. Only when he became abusive to dc did I realise something was wrong and it wasn't because I had cooked dinner badly, or loaded the dishwasher incorrectly, or made his coffee the wrong way etc- it was him.
It took me a fair while in therapy to realise this. In my case I had had depression and I though he was behaving the way he was because I was so difficult to live with (as he told me over and over). Once I realised the truth, I became incredibly angry for about a year. H is also having therapy and has made big changes in his life now.
It's just not acceptable now for H to take out his anger (which was always a 'blaming' anger) on any of us.
Therapy helps.

Can you agree some ground-rules with your partner for a fight, eg. no name-calling? If you can talk to him some time when you are both calm, and get this agreement, and then implement it, then the relationship is potentially worth keeping. If he says no, because he likes to keep open the possibility of hurting you, then personally I would leave.

My general rule of thumb these days is :- if it upsets me more often than it makes me happy it has to go. I was in an abusive relationship for 6 years and then a job where I was bullied & taken advantage of for 2 years. Life is far too short! It may sound simplistic but I wish I'd had that outlook in my 20s, it would have me a lot of pain.

saved me a lot of pain!

I think it's what's acceptable to YOU!

Squeezing the toothpaste in the middle of the tube, leaving dirty pants on the bedroom floor can sometimes make you want to scream (especially if you've asked him 100 times not to) and can be very annoying but IMO it's not relationship crushing issues. Controlling behaviour, jealousy IMO is relationship crushing.

Unreasonable behaviour in a divorce court can be anything, it's what's unreasonable to YOU!.

I always try and look at the relationship as a whole, if the good times outweigh the bad times then I consider myself to be doing ok. It's when the bad times outweigh the good, in either time or severity that I consider it a problem. Treat other people the way you want to be treated, and expect the same back. If you aren't getting that then maybe it's time to evaluate what it is you want and who it is you are getting it from.

Browbeating till you cry then comforting you? Kick him in the cock and file for divorce. This is about him liking to exercise power over you - it's up to him whether you are crying or comforted. And I bet that runs through the whole of your relationship - that he has set it up so he is in charge and your role is to submit, obey and please him. Just like a well-trained dog or pony, because that's how he thinks of you.

No we are not actually together any more. Just found he couldn't do "nice" and I was very unhappy, but I don't know if it's because i'm tired or something. I'm just in a bad situation because we're still living together and so have to put up with his nonsense still. I'm at breaking point now though, need something to change.

Oh God... no wonder you feel like that, get him out asap or get out yourself...I can't think of anything more draining or dispiriting (other than a nasty illness).

Well, if you'd rather be at work because home is not a pleasant place to be, that sounds like a relationship that you're best out of.

Your partner should be someone you can confide in, who you can come home to and unload about your stressful day at work, who makes you feel better about yourself.

Any relationship which brings you more stress and worry that joy and comfort is not a good one.

Ah well, it took me ages to realise what the problem was, ie him and not me. Trouble was I was also sleep deprived this morning and felt generally as if I couldn't cope with life. I do generally just ignore him, but I also wonder what makes me go for blokes that treat me badly. Have decided that if I like someone, even if they seem nice, they're probably an arse and so best out of relationships, but do wonder how long he's going to keep this situation, of refusing to leave, up, and what it would be like to be with someone who was genuinely nice, and not just to get what they want.

Ah well, it took me ages to realise what the problem was, ie him and not me. Trouble was I was also sleep deprived this morning and felt generally as if I couldn't cope with life. I do generally just ignore him, but I also wonder what makes me go for blokes that treat me badly. Have decided that if I like someone, even if they seem nice, they're probably an arse and so best out of relationships, but do wonder how long he's going to keep this situation, of refusing to leave, up, and what it would be like to be with someone who was genuinely nice, and not just to get what they want.

I'm another one who's decided I can't trust my own judgment! Like you, I was badly bullied at work and at home - there was nowhere I could just "be okay" iyswim. I also thought it must be me; I must be 'faulty' or why would so many people keep telling me so?

Turns out I'd been trained by my lovely family to consider myself the cause of other people's problems As a result, I attracted people who enjoyed having someone to blame for everything - we do go round with an invisible sign on our foreheads, flashing "BullyMe! I can take it!"

Your title question, "What's normal?" is a really important one. If you've never really known what it's like to be accepted/liked/loved for who you are, then you're either going to carry on attracting fuckwits for the rest of your life, or have to learn a whole new set of criteria. It's a pain, but I have to believe it's worth making that effort - I can't imagine doing it without therapy.

First of all, you've got to get these fuckwits out of your life! How come he's still hanging around, poisoning your air? Any chance you could just leave? Or get support to kick him out?

Yea I agree, what you grow up with becomes the norm, I'm still untangling all that as well...

Trust me - when you find a nice, normal, respectful man and a good relationship it will seem almost too good to be true. It is amazing. Liberating. It doesn't ever feel like hard work either. Breaking the cycle is difficult but you are well aware of the signs now.