Inappropriate Texting

[hubbyconf]

Six weeks ago I got into bed next to my sleeping DW and found a mobile phone in her hand. It wasn?t her usual mobile. I had never seen it before. My heart sank. My stomach turned over. I instantly knew that she had been seeing someone else.

I gently prized it out of her hand and took it downstairs to see if I could find out who it was. It was full of the kind of texts a husband never wants to read about his wife but it was clear from their tone and familiarity that it had been going on for some time.

I went back upstairs, woke her up, and confronted her about it. She initially said she had never seen the phone before (hilarious I know!). She eventually admitted it was someone she used to work for. This is someone that I have never met but I knew that he had been in my house and even met my children within the last 6 months. She vehemently denied that anything physical had happened and that it was all just fantasy and an ?escape?. I do know that she was supposed to meet him in Glasgow for a business overnight stay but she backed out of it and didn?t go.

I was naturally devastated, threw the phone back at her (not literally) and went to sleep on the sofa. During a totally sleepless night I then checked her computer (something I had never done before ? I am not a suspicious person, more fool me) and found that she had been taking naked and suggestive pictures of herself and sending them to him. Once she even did this from the bathroom when we were on a romantic weekend away.

After much talking and soul searching over the past weeks we agreed to try and get over it and get past it and move on with our relationship. We have 3 beautiful and very demanding children of 7, 5 and 3. I work 9 to 5 and she works from home. I try to help out where I can with the children. I take them to school, I cook for them, I help with the housework (not one of her strong points!) and I try to make sure I take her to dinner or away as often as feasible. I do sometimes get grumpy (don?t we all?) and I know I can be hard to live with sometimes.

The problem is now that our relationship is just so hard. We try to be nice to each other but every little fight blows up into a massive fall out. We just don?t seem to be able to keep it on an even keel. The kids are very hard work at the moment and as soon as the stress levels escalate we just go to pieces very quickly.

My question is; well I guess I have a few actually. Am I being naive in believing that nothing happened between them and believing that it is now totally finished and over? Is it possible to get over something like this and get back to ?normal?? Do you think that having made a step towards another person she will always be looking now for someone else to continue that path with?

Sorry I know this is supposed to be a board for Mum?s but I would just love to hear an opinion from a female perspective. All I can get from my mates is ?I cant believe you didn?t find him and beat him up!?

yes it is possible to get over it if thats what you BOTH want and are BOTH willing to work towards

but it takes a hell of a long time and a lot of patience and tears

What are the reasons your wife is given for her affair? I notice you seem to be minimising this and calling it "inappropriate texting", when at the least this was an emotional affair. One of the first steps is to call this what it was.

Given that your wife told so many lies in her initial shock on discovery, it must be especially difficult to know whether she is telling the truth about what happened or is still happening.

Unfortunately, when women are unfaithful there is an unhelpful societal discourse that this must have meant unhappiness at home and I note that you mention housework, childcare and your grumpiness. Yet your wife is telling you that this was an escapist fantasy. It's entirely possible that on this point, she is telling you the absolute truth and that her affair had nothing to do with you, your marriage or her unhappiness with either. That this affair was all about an opportunity to escape the mundane trials of life and when an opportunity occurred, she couldn't resist.

After a discovery, it is especially important that an involved spouse is honest about what led her to have an affair, but that means being very honest with herself too and not hiding behind a marital dissatisfaction clause. If your wife is saying that this was escapism, then listen to her and start looking at her infidelity as a series of vulnerabilities.

You might find it helpful to order a book called Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass and this explains the holistic approach to infidelity that I am outlining. In this she states that there are individual vulnerabilities to infidelity, lifestyle/social vulnerabilities and sometimes relationship vulnerabilities. However, she comes at this from the perspective that affairs can and do happen in "good" (for "good, read "normal") marriages and that when they do, the affair has usually happened because of sliding boundaries, friendships that imperceptibly crossed the line and indicative of vulnerabilities elsewhere and not in the relationship.

In order for trust to be regained, an involved spouse must become an open book and volunteer passwords and phone bills. It would be the triumph of hope over experience to trust again so quickly and for a while, it is perfectly understandable that you will want to cross-check until you are sure that this relationship is severed completely. It doesn't sound as though she ended it in your presence, hence your doubts.

Recovery never happens properly until your wife makes very definite changes and works on her individual vulnerability to infidelity. She needs to understand how she came to give herself permission to do this and it is actually more important that she understands this, than you. She is the only one who can prevent her own infidelity - it is not something you could ever control, no more than she can control yours.

Try to see this as not returning "back to normal" because the normal that you lived before, produced this situation, especially the person your wife became, for a short time. It is better to think of creating an entirely new relationship, built on openness, transparency and emotional honesty.

What's also obvious is that you've got some social vulnerabilities too if your friends are making such unsupportive knee-jerk comments to a humanitarian crisis. At a time like this, you need emotionally honest friends who understand the pain you're enduring and will not judge you or inflame the situation. Do have a think about having some therapy yourself if they are in short supply.

Thank you, whenwillifeel, for the long and detailed response. It is really very much appreciated.

You ask what reasons she gave for the "affair" and it is hard to give a definitive one. We are childhood sweethearts for want of a better expression and have been together since we were 14. We have never, not to my knowledge, slept with anyone else. She says that she enjoyed the attention of another man. A man that had always told her what to do and so when he told her what to do, she did it.

She obviously wants to minimize its importance of what?s happened. She keeps telling me that it was so unimportant it?s not worth discussing. (not that easy to hear) Quite honestly I don?t blame her for what?s happened. I can understand how she has got herself in the situation she has and I do believe she is genuinely sorry for it. You are dead right in that she says it was nothing to do with her being unhappy with me or her life and I am prepared to accept that at face value. (again I hope I am not being naïve)

She is not however volunteering passwords or phone bills and I am too scared of rocking the boat to ask. I don?t get the sense there is something going on, and I am not overly paranoid that she is lying to me but she has certainly not changed any behaviour in terms of her privacy or daily routine.

What?s hard is that going forward our relationship is just in tatters and I don?t know what to do to make it better. I don?t want to be apathetic and just think ?Oh it?ll sort itself out? but equally I don?t want to be constantly talking about it and going over it as this would just wear us both out.

If she is not being more open with you than previously, it would concern me. Do you think she is seriously committed to making your relationship work?

I think you would be wise to perhaps go to Relate. If she is reluctant I would question her committment

Keeping as brief as possisble.My heart goes out to you.Was in a similar situation almost a year ago when alerted by OW husband found my DH had been exchanging many texts a day to woman he met at work-and they shared many lunchtime chats over months.Texts had become very intimate and explicit to say the least just before I found out.I was devastated and heartbroken-been together and happy many years with grown up DC's.Months later we have re-built our marriage but not been easy as I felt all the love and trust I had for him had been blown apart.We went to Relate and explored what had lead to this inapproprate frienship crossing boundaries.Talked for hour at times.I would say it's definitely posssible to move on from an experience like this but your wife needs to be as transparent as possible eg.access to her phone and computer,and begin to understand your need for details, and to talk if that's what you feel you need.My DH was willing to do that,and cut all contact with OW,and it was his idea to go to Relate.I know I'm very lucky he took those steps and truly believe he loves me and will always be sorry for the hurt he caused. I also believe that he hadn't fallen out of love with me when he lost the plot ,but got carried away by the flattery and attention.
I still have many quiet moments of reflection and upset but it does get easier.You sound a lovely caring guy and I hope your wife gives the honesty and reassurance you need, and that she understands even if not a physical affair it still feels a massive betrayal.Sometimes mobiles and computers are a curse!Wishing you all the best.

Having been in your position with my soon to be ex-husband, you appear to me to be very generous with her feelings.

I do not believe for one moment that this was just an emotional affair, especially if she was sending sexy pictures.

At least you DO help around the house, many men out there don't. And yes - we can all be grumpy.

Communication is the magic word in a partnership - in anything in life in fact. Without communication the wheels just grind to a halt.

You sound as though you need to get to the bottom of exactly what she's been doing (you know the who, half the battle). Sometimes the guilty party don't necessarily know themselves WHY.

Good luck to you, I sympathise.

But it isn't nothing. It was infidelity. She's minimising it more than you, it seems.

You're not being naive at all about the reasons for the affair. In fact I'm relieved she has at least been honest about its cause and that you accept that.

You are being naive if you think that you can get past this if your wife doesn't talk about it and make pretty radical changes to her behaviour and attitudes.

When infidelity is swept under the carpet, there is every chance it will happen again. The vulnerabilities still remain, except worse now, a taboo has been broken and it is far easier to do something when that has gone.

The reason your relationship is under so much stress is because you aren't dealing with this as the crisis it is. You are too busy trying to move on. You can't make this better on your own. Your wife needs to do far more work understanding herself and how she gave herself permission to hurt someone she loves. The conversations are painful, but absolutely necessary.

You shouldn't be afraid of rocking the boat. You'd gain far more self-respect (and respect from her) actually if you made some minimum conditions on trying to forgive this. I also say that because at this stage, you cannot say you have forgiven yet, especially as you are being met with so much guardedness and a lack of openness.

You need to fight the temptation to hope this will all blow over. It will come back to bite you far more ferociously if you don't deal with this now as a couple.

All very valid feedback - thank you all so much for your replies.

We did and have spent many hours talking about this and I think we both felt that we had reached an agreement on the best way to proceed. I didnt think that we had tried to move on to early just that we were trying to at least progress past it. But I take on board that we do need to discuss it further and that it will take time to understand the true nature of how she came to be in that position.

We just seem to be tripping over each other all the time, when she thinks I annoyed with her, even when I am not, she withdraws and seems to be grumpier than me. She does have a hard time with the kids, I accept that, and it is sometimes easy for me to escape to work.

I personally feel that she didnt realise how hard being a Mum and a wife was going to be, a position I am sure many of you can sympathise with. As I have said she doesnt find that running the house comes naturally to her and she seems to get worn out by the children very quickly. I think she feels the pressure of this and needed something that was just for her. I try to help with the house and the kids but ultimately there is only so much I can do. I want to list all the things I do but it would appear like I am after congratulations or sympathy, I am not. I just want to try and see things from her perspective so I can try and understand, and help her understand, whats happened.

Certainly one thing I do know is that I want her to know how much she has hurt me but I dont want to use it as a stick to beat her with. (metaphorically speaking)

I do hope I am making sense!

It doesn't matter how much you both do around the house. What matters is do you have an equal amount of leisure time? If that's unequal, it needs remedying and fast.

You're tripping over eachother because there is still no proper emotional honesty. You might have talked for hours, but perhaps not about the right things. You understand the nature of temptation and to your credit understand how affairs can happen. What you don't seem to understand and your wife seems unwilling to be introspective enough about, is how she gave herself permission to do this. Understanding permission is key to resolving her individual vulnerability to infidelity.

There is also a massive difference between conveying how very hurt you are and being punitive. It's okay to show her how vulnerable, hurt and damaged you are. In fact it's essential, because you both sound like minimisers. She really needs to understand the enormity of her actions and the repercussions. She needs to see your pain. That isn't punishment - it's just being honest.

You seem to be focusing too heavily on how burdensome your wife's life was before she did this and tried to escape for a while. As though if she hadn't been stressed about life, this might not have happened. One of the issues you'll need to discuss is whether this is in fact true - or whether pretty much regardless of the stress in her life, your wife would have responded to the opportunity for a romantic and sexual adventure, having met her life partner so young. I'm sure you've got stresses too, but what has stopped you having an affair yourself? Have there been opportunities you've turned down, or backed away from?

I'm going to stick my neck out here and tell you that one of the reasons unfaithful spouses often don't want to discuss an affair is because they have only given the partial truth. It's impossible to forgive when you don't know the extent of the offence. This might also explain the pair of you tripping over one another and the lack of real emotional honesty - the truth isn't quite "out there" yet and your wife is hoping it will all blow over. Secrets really damage intimacy and it's such a false dawn to move on without the whole, unabridged truth.

I think you are being naive and yup she did do a lot more than texting. Think about it she even introduced this person to your children and had him in your house.

I would get yourself to a clinic and get checked for STIs sorry /-:

If you seriously want to get your marriage back you need to go to counseling and find out why she felt the need to do this. What was wrong/missing in her opinion in your relationship.

She needs to be totally honest and open not matter how painful for both of you. If she isn't you will never sort this out.

You make a very interesting point actually. I have been afraid to push the point because I am concerned (obviously) that there has been a physical relationship as well as an emotional one, and in some ways I would rather just not know. But I am also conscious of not falling into the trap of not being satisfied till she tells me what I think to be true. I.e. that I won?t believe anything she says until she admits she slept with him even if in fact that is not the case.

I wouldn?t say that I have had opportunities to have affairs but I have certainly had connections with and attractions to other women over the years. I truly don?t believe you can be in a relationship with someone for 21 years like we have and not have the odd attraction or desire for another person, hence the reason, I guess, I am cutting her a lot of slack. But I have never followed up or pursued any of those situations. I have had lots of "girlfriends" over the years as I find, generally, women easy to get on with and good company but I can honestly say it has never seriously crossed my mind to sleep with any of them.

I think the point is, because we have been together for such a young age, and because we are each others only partner, sex with someone else is such a MASSIVE deal, that I genuinely don?t believe she would do it. It would be like your first time all over again. Perhaps I am wrong.

As for our leisure time, I would hope that its fairly even. She plays a lot of tennis and I cycle, a lot. But it pretty much works out about even.

Are you a professional councillor whenwillifeelnormal? If not - you should be ;)

I agree with Xales that it's possible your wife is still lying about the extent of the relationship, but I reiterate that there might have been nothing "missing" from your relationship. This is also what your DW is saying, hubby. Sometimes affairs meet a need that cannot possibly be realised in the primary relationship; the need for someone new showing attention and sexual flattery.

When I mentioned leisure time, Hubby I meant "free time". You are wise not to list on here the tasks you perform, because I'm sure what you mean is that you do your fair share and need no congratulation for that just because you're a man. However, do think hard about whether you both have equal amounts of "free time".

I think you're absolutely right that over the course of a long relationship, it would be unusual not to meet people with whom if circumstances were different, there could have been a connection. But you backed off and away and didn't see how far these relationships could have gone. You have a different individual vulnerability to your wife's and the key is seeing why you were so different.

I suspected you were not pushing the conversations, lest you learnt too much and that's honest of you to acknowledge it. But I think it will always be the elephant in your relationship if you don't confront it. I also wondering whether you are projecting your own moral taboos on to your wife and because it would seem like losing your virginity all over again for you, you are assuming it would be the same for her.

This might be what I call a well-intentioned lie - your wife might know that if she admitted sex with this OM, it might cause you personally more pain than an emotional connection (would it?) so she will admit to what she thinks you can forgive - and to an extent what you can prove. When people lie about their affairs and what happened, it would however be disingenuous to say that they are lying only to save their partner's pain; they are primarily lying to save their own skin and are not altruistic in their motives.

So here you are, wrestling with what you believe deep down (a combined affair), an overwhelming desire to forgive and get past this, a wife who may or may not be holding secrets and who hasn't changed her behaviour very much at all and you're both "tripping over" eachother with so much left unsaid and so much that is unresolved.

I'm wary of advising couples counselling, because lots of counsellors believe that female infidelity always has a relational cause and I fear you'll be led down a false track. However, while there are often minor niggles in a relationship that can be sorted fairly easily, the really difficult stuff is examining how you've both been socialised according to your gender and challenging that and the most difficult vulnerability to eradicate is the personal. If you can find a counsellor that takes a holistic approach to infidelity and doesn't operate from the standpoint that female infidelity always has a relational cause, I think that would be really helpful.

But you need proper emotional honesty first.

hi hubbyconf.

FWIW I have recently been in a similar position to you. I dealt with the first affair in the same way as you seem to be doing.

As WWIFN warns, it did come back to bite me ferociously 4 weeks ago when i discovered that not only is H still having contact with the first OW and has been all along for the past 4 years, he in now having another affair as well - only this time he used it as an exit strategy to get me to end the marriage because he is too cowardly to do it himself.

I reccommend the 'Not Just Friends' book. it's not an easy read but it will help you (both if your DW is willing to read it too and talk honestly about what led her to behave in this way).

I'm really sorry this has happened, but it is crucial that you don't ignore your own needs to have the truth (all of it however painful).

Wow! I cant believe how much youve helped and I also cant believe how much free time and energy you are allocating to a complete stranger. Without reiterating the point to the degree of annoyance I cant tell you how much I appreciate it.

I believe she would probaly win on the free time front in the sense that, certainly during term time, she has time alone during the day when she is not working and has no other commitments. This in part, you are absolutely right, is what worries me about going to councilling together. I can well see that my cycling will be flagged up as a possible "cause" for this situation. And once that has happened everyone, wife included, will be hanging their hat on that peg as the crux of the problem. I believe it is an irrelavance, but then I guess I would!

As to your question of whether a physical relationship would cause me more pain than an emotional one. I really dont know. It would certainly cross a line I would never believe she would cross but then I would never believe she would have got this far.

Really good to see Sugar on this thread and I'm glad she also recommends Not Just Friends. It's a great book.

The only note of warning I'd make about it though is that it was written in 2001 for a mainly North American readership and the surveys about female infidelity were conducted through the lenses of other therapists. Hence, there was a conclusion that when a long-married woman has an affair, there are dissatisfactions in the relationship. There has been more recent European research that contradicts that and there are several testimonies on here from women who admit that their affair was not caused by marital discord or dissatisfaction.

This is my only quibble with the book and I like to think that if Shirley Glass had lived, she would have conducted more thorough, up-to-date research because everything else she has to say about infidelity and affairs is spot-on, in my view.

Cycling? As a 'cause' for an affair?

How likely are you right now to accept this explanation, do you think? If it were you having an affair, would your DW accept something similar i.e. she spent too much time in Tesco's or somewhere?

Sorry hubbyconf. I just don't get it. I think it's good that you're able to post here, and you'll get lots of great support, but some of it may challenge you before you are ready to take it on board.

Keep posting though. I can't tell you how much it has helped me sort out everything from legal stuff to my DD's education.

Sorry, I realise its difficult to get all the intricacies of a relationship over in a few posts but I should say that I cycle a lot. I train for at least 8 hours a week and I race during the summer season, often on sunday mornings. It is one of the biggest passions in my life after my family and it frequently pops up in "domestic" discussions.

I can just see that it could be used as a concession or a point of conflict on which to hinge discussions about issues within our relationship. So you are right "cause" is probably to strong a word but ill bet she would try and use it as a contributory factor!

It's hard, I know hubbyconf.

My XH and me used to argue alot about the amount of time he spent 'working' away, or up in the study (every night until late, weekends away etc etc....) but it never occurred to me to take a lover to compensate for what I was not getting from him.

What would be the deal breaker for your DW do you think? Less time cycling and more time with her and the kids or you two alone? would you be willing to compromise if it is that important to your DW?

IMHO it is easy for the hurt partner to get into what he/she did to contribute to the situation. But by the sound of your posts your DW is unhappy about things which you might not be able to fix - she may have to fix these herself.

You sound like a decent bloke who is trying to make sense of what has happened, but without honesty and a willingness to go over and over what has gone wrong you could find yourself increasingly looking toward your 'failings' and your mistakes - I think that's entirely natural on one level but if you are the only one engaging in this, then it probably isn't going to help you and DW rebuild the trust that has been shattered.

You love her, that's clear from your posts. She's lucky to have you there and wanting to work things out. i hope she realises that.

So do you think your dw has eight hours a week plus regular days cleared to pursue her own interests?

I sometimes wonder if WWIFN IS Dr Shirley Glass..:-)

Anyway, some couples counsellors are extremely good, don't discount it. An open discussion about sex and your mutual attitudes to it guided by a counsellor might be very helpful. You might look to one also trained as a psychosexual counsellor.

You post that you are together 21 years from age 14 so guessing you are mid thirties? The old adage that men reach their sexual peak late teens and women mid thirties may not be wholly true but there is some truth there in women often gaining confidence, drive and curiosity later in life. You say that she did as she was told because she was used to doing as she was told by this man. She may be curious about a different sort of sexual relationship, maybe even with a dom/sub theme and feeling urges to explore it. After all, this sounds like very sexual contact, not a sort of romantic escape from day to day life.

Let's face it, it's very rare these days (in the UK today) to have just had one partner for life, sex is everywhere, and she may be curious. Discussing these feelings and difficulties openly together may help you both.

You are making a lot of excuses for her and seem to be putting yourself down in the process.
In simple terms she did wrong and is quite possibly still doing it. I'd be suspicious that she is not showing you her phone bills. I think you're entitled to ask to look at them as she has shattered your trust and she should be jumping through hoops to win it back.

I'm sorry that you are going thru this. You sound like a really lovly guy.

The only advice i would give is that you need to tell her you have been very hurt by this and that you need to see her email account, phone bills and anything else you feel you need.

She needs to be honest and be open for the both of you to work it out.

She needs to understand what she has done and she needs to be open to honestly work on rebuilding your relationship.

You cant fix your reslationship on your own she needs to engage too. That means talking about what happened, being open with each other and having full disclosuer.

You don't mention (I don't think) how she ended the relationship, or if you are confident that she has fully ended it, ie no contact whatsoever. I wonder, since she seeks to minimise the relationship by calling it a fantasy/escape, if she realised the importance of drawing a definite line under it to end it, or if she felt that it would be ok to continue with it as a friendship, hence not being open and transparent with you.

Why does counselling seem to be seen as a cure-all on this website? Jesus, this woman is taking the piss and insulting the intelligence of an obviously intelligent guy with her bollocks about escapism etc. Sitting with a counseller is only indulging her even more. In any case, what does it matter her motives. Fact is, she has done what she has done and sat pontificating with a counseller about the whys and whatnots wont change anything.
Forget counselling, just tell her she comes clean about everything or its over. If I found out my wife had been sending naked pics of her self - while I was in the vicinity! - tbh, I think that is a deal-breaker (although I am sure a 'trained counseller' - yeh, right - will find some way of negotiating a get-out clause for such behaviour).

Nothing is that black and white when there are young DC involved Bbird1. FWIW I think there was a physical relationship (my DH minimised his involvement with OW because he didn't want to admit to himself what he had done - some of the biggest lies these people tell are to themselves).

OP your DW needs to be an open book now period. That together with absolutely no contact with OM, is there bare minimal to get the marriage back on track to begin with. Without the security of those two things, there cannot be the beginnings of trust again.

Try the Beyondaffairs website as well, I would it very useful upon discovery of my DH's affair.

Good luck.