How to deal with an alcoholic??!

[cheekymonk]

Hi All.
Person in question is my next door neighbour. Both her and my ds are good mates and I have got to know her pretty well. She is currently going through a divorce and has suffered domestic abuse in her marriage and sexual abuse as a child by her Dad
She has a massive drink problem and freely admits it. I really like her but sometimes don't think I am being much of a friend. She has a 7, 10 and 14 year old sons. She will drink herself into complete oblivion in front of them. I have told the youngest he is welcome to knock on my door at any time as he says her drinking scares him.
She has loads of mates but noone seems to tackle the drinking. People have told me she drives when drunk but I have never seen this. I do think she is a good mum but the extent of her drinking scares me. I opened my front door on my way for school run the other day and I knew she was there before I saw her because I could smell stale drink. I know when she has had a drink because she is hyper and loud. She tells me she is happy and all is fine and then will be in tears and asking for a hug the next minute. I try to just be there for her but don't always spend alot of time with her as I don't know what to say/do. Her life is her business but its hard to see someone on self destrruct mode and sometimes her youngest little boy, well he just looks so sad . Any thoughts/experience?

Awful for her children, imagine what their lives are like? Bet the oldest one does most of the 'parenting'. She needs to get help or the social services need to get involved.
They prob have to get their own food, dress themselves, do their own washing, bath themselves, drag their mum to bed when she's drunk, clear up her sick, listen to her telling them she hates them, listen to her telling them she loves them, listen to her crying, laughing at nothing.
Totally totally demoralising for them.
Somehow you need to convince her to visit her GP and get her on an alcoholics programme. Or call social services. Regardless of what demons she's battling, her children come first.

I am a retired social worker (30 years experience) and I agree with popalot. These children are being emotionally abused and will affect them throughout their lives to a greater or lesser extent. I think you need to contact social services. If you can be straight with her and tell her what you are going to do, that will be best. However you can make an anonymous referral, but people usually realise who it is that has referred them, though social workers will never confirm or deny who has made the referral.

You say this neighbour and your DS are good friends - presumably he is an adult. What does he think about the effect her drinking is having on the children. I am sure your neighbour has had more than her fair share of stress, and she drinks to block it out, but the children must come first.

I'm sorry to say this but you are being complicit in knowing what is happening to these children and not doing anything about it.

Popalot says you need to convince her to see her GP and get on an alcoholics programme - this is not your responsibility and she is highly unlikely to take such advice. Your responsibility is to contact social services so that the children (especially the younger ones) canbe kept safe and not have to live with a mother who is always drunk. This might be the wake up call that she needs to get her act together.

If you don't want to do it, you can PM me and give me the details I will do it!

Just got chance to catch up-dd been grizzling all night!
Trouble is, its not that black and white. She seems to be able to hold her drink pretty well (I know this sounds pathetic) but the children go to school clean, well dressed, fed and on time. She takes them to football clubs etc. I notice that apart from these clubs they don't go far and can be all weekend playing outside on/off. The eldest is highly depended on and was off school for a week due to stress she told me. I have noticed all kids are ill a fair bit and have quite a bit of time off school.
Social services are already involved and liase with the school as her husband often reported her for being an unfit mum so they seem to be monitoring her (he was navy aand away all the time. I questioned well if she is unfit why are you happy to leave her with them?!)
I know she does make them get up at 6 to do chores before school but this is part of her parenting ethos. She does housework too when they are at school. She never sleeps and barely eats which can't be good for the kids to see nevermind her own health.
I don't know that she is ever abusive to them, I have never seen it and they don't seem scared or uneasy with her, more fiercely loyal and protective.She is up and down like a rollercoaster which I agree must be awful to live with.
Sorry I meant my ds aged 6 and her son are good mates hence how I have got to know her.
I don't think the children are in physical danger but yes I do feel they are being emotionally damaged. Neighbour seems to have no help or support from family either which i find shocking.
I just feel that I help neighbour to think the drinking is ok when it is clearly not. I just think if I make her feel worse she will drink more!

Parenting ethos my fucking fat fanny, NOBODY should be hauled out of bed at 6am to do chores unless it's voluntary and they are being paid.

3 kids could get a day's chores done in an hour.

She is not doing the donkey work in that house, her kids are.

Cheekymonk- I have been in a similar(ish) situation with my sister.

Sis has a massive drink problem. Not sure she's technically an alcoholic as she doesn't drink everyday, but when she does, she doesn't stop until she's drunk everything in the house. As far as I know this was happening 3-4 times per week. She was (and I suspect still is) frequently paralytic whilst solely responsible for her 7 year old son. Husband, (who she is currently getting divorced from) is often away on business during the week.

Sis is also up and down like a rollercoaster, to the point that it is suspected she may be BPD.

After having tried and failed to talk sense into her & her DH on countless occasions, myself and another family member finally made the decision to report her to ss.

What they did was the following:

Contacted the school to see if there were any concerns there.

Spoke to sis and her H (via telephone) about the situation.

Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it), the school did not report any major concerns, and as Sis & H did not deny the problem (although they did minimize it), the case was closed. It was closed on the understanding that sis would visit GP to get help with her drinking, but infuriatingly, ss do not have the power to check that she has followed through on this promise. (and I would be gobsmacked if she has)

ss also told me that if at any point I became aware that she was in sole charge of DN whilst paralytic, the best thing to do is to make a 999 call to police, who will then do a welfare check. Could this be an option for you?

I agree with other poster that said best thing could maybe be to talk to neighbour about your concerns first of all, but if it carries on make a ss referral. You will be complicit otherwise.

You can't make an adult stop drinking against his/her wishes. And there are limits to how much a person can or should be forced to conform to what the neighbours feel is acceptable behaviour. You say this woman's DC are clean, well fed, attend school regularly and appear loved - and that SS are not seriously concerned about the family.
I think you should keep your judgy beak out.

Baggy

"Not sure she's technically an alcoholic as she doesn't drink everyday, but when she does, she doesn't stop until she's drunk everything in the house."

Personally, I'd call that an alcoholic. Drinking every day has nothing to do with it. Not being able to stop once you've started has everything to do with it.

just my opinion, of course.

SGB- I agree that you can't make an adult stop drinking, and also that parents should not be made to conform to a neighbour's ideals.

However, being inebriated whilst in charge of a minor is a police matter- and clearly this isn't a one off- it's a frequent occurence.

MIFLAW- yeah, that's my opinion too. But it's surprisingly hard to find any concrete guidelines, which makes the whole thing quite subjective.

Its not black and white at all, I agree. That is useful to know so thanks baggypussy that I can call police if I know she is totally out of it whilst looking after the kids. She drinks most in the school day and then at nights. This is most days from what I can tell. Last night my ds was playing outside with her ds. She was at the end of the road in other mums house drinking. Kids were outside my house so I was keeping any eye out but this they were out for a couple of hours.(I question myself if I am being neglectful but have 67 week old dd so cannot always check as much as I should).
I disagree with the chores thing too but then I notice how well behaved her kids are, always very well mannered and polite and they do have a good relationship with their Mum as her ds told me he can tell his mum anything. Its just far from ideal but I agree it is none of my business. I just can't help but care thats all.

7 week old not 67 week old!

There aren't any concrete guidelines. The best advice I can give you comes from AA which is, "if your drinking costs you more than money - THINK!"

People waiting for an "objective" decision on this one put me in mind a bit of someone on a bike who refuses to swerve for a car driving on the wrong side of the road and gets knocked down. Objectively, they are in the right; but how much satisfaction can that give when you are in plaster from head to foot or in a six-foot pine box?

As the wife of an alcoholic, the answer is there's little you can do to help your neighbour, all you can do is try to provide protection for her kids, as I do for our DS.

Thanks to DH's addiction, DS has to spend time with CMs early in the morning and after school, as we cannot guarantee that DH will be sober to be in charge and I work full time. Feel angry with him at times that he is depriving our wonderful DS of time with him before and after school - how can he put the drink before him? But they do, and they will - they have no control over their intake, their life, in AA parlance, "has become unmanageable".

Only your neighbour can recognise she needs help and then seek it, accept it and work her butt off to get sober and start healing inside.

Cheeky- the other thing with ss is that (in my experience) they have very little power to intervene in the early stages.

It may be that this lady is already on their radar, but if the situation has been brought to their attention solely by an estranged partner, it may be that they have to be wary of treating his testimony as fact.

If you, or anyone else were to also bring the situation to ss attention, it is likely to give more weight to the claim.

How well do you know the other mums in the area? Have you spoken to anyone else re your concerns?

Cheekymonkey - am glad that SS are involved even if it is only to the extent of checking with the school, and if the kids are clean and tidy the teachers will probably report no problems. SWs are horrendously overworked these days and they may not think this case meets the threshold for intervention, but I certainly think it does. The other thing is that referrals from ex partners (usually men) are often perceived as sour grapes and just a chance to get one over on the ex. (sorry just read Baggypussy's post making same point!)

You could report this matter to your local councillor, and say you want to remain anonymous and he/she will pass it on to the Director of SS and I can assure you that these referrals get dealt with, because they have to feed back to the councillor. As Baggyp says have other parents in the street noticed that these children are being neglected and emotionally harmed. Just because she takes them to football does not mean that they are being cared for in a proper manner.

Cheekymonkey - you sound very caring but I think you are trying to convince yourself that it's not too bad really, and I understand that, but believe me, living with an alcoholic parent is really very traumatic for children and I think you (or someone else) should speak to SS and relay your concerns or the children.

Thanks Snowiebear for that insight. It must be so hard for you and your ds. I can totally understand how angry/resentful you must get at times however.
As for the other mums, they are all friends with her. She knows EVERYONE. my other neighbour says that she likes said alcoholic neighbour but not when she drinks. A mum at school told me that said neighboutr drinks and drives but I have never seen her do this (I know this doesn't mean she doesn't do it though) and also the same as me how her ds's face drops as soon as he sees his mum if he can see she has been drinking when she picks him up from school.
It is the fact that all all mates seem to just accept it as normal that makes me question it more. I doubt they are real friends. I do say to neighbour that I know she drinks and that she uses it to get through life but have not gone so far as to say I worry about both her and the kids.
I have spoken to my health visitor and she says that there is little that can be done...
I think NanaNina I am trying to say she is not your stereotyped monster alcoholic mum, shouting at and hitting her kids. But yes there is more emotional damage going on than I perhaps have first acknowledged

cheekymonkey - emotional harm does as much damage as physical harm. I am really struggling to understand why all you mothers who know what is happening are not prepared to take any action to protect these children. I cannot believe the HV said there was nothing that can be done. That is appalling - at the very least she could have relayed your concerns to the SSD and indeed she is failing in her duty if she does not do so.

There are a variety of things you can do:

Phone SS and tell them how bad it is and say you want to remain anonymous (if this woman knows all the neighbours) then she won't know it was you.

Talk to any of the other neighbours to see if they are willing to contact SS

Talk to your local councillor and tell him/her about this problem and ask if they will report to SS

Yes as someone says if you know she is drunk and the children are at home or out in the street, you can phone police who will do what is called a "safe and well" check to ensure that the children are safe and well. Mind it depends on what else the police have on and by the time they get there, she might have sobered up.

PM me with the details and I will phone SS. You can be assured on total confidentiality.

But FGS please don't just assume because she is not shouting and hitting the kids, they are not being harmed because they are. The thought of a litle child coming out of school and being able to see right away whether his mom is drunk or not is so very sad.

I am not over reacting - as I think I said I have 30 years experience in SSD both as social worker and team manager and very often I answer some posts saying that there is nothing really that the SSD can do, but these children are suffering significant harm and that is the threshold for social work intervention.