Mothering Sunday indifference? ... if only ....

[StickleTick]

OK, how many other MNers are there out there who feel like my sister and I?
We're nearing 40, and we still mindboggle at our mum's dysfunctional parenting. It hurt my sister so badly, she's not had children cos she's scared of copying what she witnessed, [unintentionally, of course.]
I'm the opposite, and have 2 lovely children becuase I'm optimistic [!] that I can do better.

... A bit of context, [although that isn't why I'm posting, ...to get sympathy about my sad childhood, that is] ...: "Just before my sister turned 6, my mum said to her. "Oh no. You're going to be 6 soon. I don't like girls older than 5, cos that's when you start to go nasty." [my sister was my mum's third DD, so mum reckoned she had enuf experience]. The result: Instead of looking forward to it, my sister spent the next few weeks dreading her birthday, believing her mum would soon stop loving her, and there was nothing she could do about it.

So ... The point of this post!
1 Who else out there can't stand mother's day, in relation to their own mother?
2 Why must we send cards, which never say the truth, like: "I used to get so hungry and headachey, when you didn't feed me that I'd disappear into the cupboard and eat dry dog biscuits. And when you eventually found me, you'd laugh"?

Our Mum denies we had a bad childhood. She thinks we 're self-indulgent if we complain. For Mothering Sunday she expects lunch out, and wall-to-wall charm! We did take her out yesterday. [She never goes anywhere otherwise,] but, while I bought her drinks, and everything else, I made her pay for her food. It was a bit of a point, especially cos she chose the most expensive dish on the menu. I've not been so adamant before, and she was very much nose put out!

So ... Here are my other questions?
3 - Why do I still feel guilty and a bit sad? Even if my stand is mostly for self-preservation?
4 - How many other MNers feel that there must come a time when you can stop treating your mother on MS, because she hasn't deserved it?
[Oh, and by the by, 5 - When am I going to get over her random mothering? She's never going to change. Alcoholism is just one of her many issues.]

Thanks, :)
or :( ... not sure yet?!

Ok I know you didn't post for sympathy. But I'm so sorry you had a crap childhood, nobody deserves that.

My DH grew up with an abusive mother. It was never confronted (his dad was away with the RAF) so it only ended when his mum buggered off when DH was 15, and he finally told his dad what had gone on.

He has only been happy since deciding to end contact once and for all. His sisters still talk to her, but to be fair they didn't get the brunt of the abuse like DH did.

If you feel that bad about this you might just have to accept that you will never 'get over it' - counselling could work, but it's not quite the same. It doesn't mean you have to forgive or forget.

You mentioned there were 3 DDs - What do your sisters feel?

funny that. I spotted the thread just before posting this, when I was searching "mothers day". Will check it in more detail later....

Hi Stickle

I did not buy my mother anything for Mothers Day as she doesn't like it and even if she did I would be in two minds about buying her anything anyway. She is more disinterested/self absorbed than anything else.

Many children now adults of such toxic parents like your mother (these people amongst other things often deny the extent of the abuse meted out at their hands, never take any responsibility and never ever apologise for their actions) is often suffer what has been termed on here as FOG - fear, obligation, guilt. My guess is that even in your late 30s you still have a combination of all of those with regards to your mother.

Have you considered ultimately going no contact with your mother?. Does she have any sort of relationship with your own children?.

I think the ladies on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these relationship pages would certainly know what you are talking about. Please do post on there as well for their support.

We still seek their approval even though they have acted appallingly. It is okay not to seek their approval any more. It is certainly okay not to take your mother out to lunch and buy her drinks just because it was Mothers Day. She does not deserve your company or hospitality, she failed you and your sister utterly and abjectly and btw still does.

I think there is a type of grieving process that is undertaken; the fact is that these women are not and will never be the mother figures we want them to be. This is not our fault this has happened and in your case you certainly did not make your mother the way she is. My guess is that her own parents treated her abusively as well as a child. Its a reason however, not an excuse.

You do not mention your Dad; is he still in your life?.

If you haven't already done so I would suggest you read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward. One of the chapters in that book is about alcoholic parents. This is a good starting point for you.

Another option here is to have counselling for your own self; BACP have a list of counsellors and they don't charge the earth. May be worth looking into as well.

Hi Freud.Slip: It's also concern for one of my sisters that has brought this q to the fore. My older sister has liver failure, COPD, and low self-esteem, but lives for today, and doesn't seem to question her past. My younger sister now has the career, having spent ages training, and is doing really well, but is eaten up with self doubt. We need to acknowledge our mum's shortcomings, so that we can all move on, and stop it.
I think being able to let go of this farce [for us] that is Mothering Sunday, would be a good start :)

What Atilla said.
No, you're not the only one by any means. I have always hated buying my mother a lying card for Mother's Day, I always buy the plainest or else a jokey one, and then only out of a misplaced sense of guilt and obligation--like you, a lot of other people who had toxic parents suffer from those feelings.
Sorry you had such a horrible childhood, and congratulations on working through it to get to the point of understanding it wasn't your fault and for trying to help your sisters too.
You would be very welcome on the Stately Homes thread.

Hi Atilla, I received counselling while a student, and also as part of my old job. The first was very good, the second, was hilarious! I was stressed at work, and wanted to learn time-management, positive-thinking and other personality management techniques. I didn't want to drag up my childhood, again. The "consellor" insisted, so i played along, very unenthusiastically ... Obviously, the boredom in my tone was catching, and she would fall asleep during our sessions :) . We soon cancelled.

Knowing that good vs. bad makes all the difference, not sure how to find good councellor for my little sister? She lives 200 miles away, and is very dubious.

It's interesting how there's already been more than one suggestion of no contact with mum, whatsoever. I feel this is a bit drastic. But, maybe, I should change my view. [Feel bit mean leaving younger sister to deal with her, just because they live close].

How does she get on with her grandchildren you ask? We invited her to stay for DS's christening when he was 1-year old. I was decorating his 3-tier cake. First tier, first name; second tier ... second name. Seeing me pipe "Sam" - ie, not DS's first name, she exclaimed : "Oh, I didn't realise this party would be for more than one. Who's the other boy getting christened?"

My dad and mum divorced when I was 14. Til then, we'd spent our childhood thinking mum's unhappiness was his fault. [He's also an alcoholic, domestic abuser]. At least, he now says sorry for what happened, and tells us repeatedly how proud he is of us.

Hi StickleTick

Just read your post and wanted to add my support as i really do feel for you. The abuse you and your sisters suffered as children is both horrifc and unforgivable.
I cannot offer advice from any experience of my own but it sounds to me as if the strain of going throught the facade of Mothers day is really taking it out of you and your sisters.
Attilathemeerkats post made an excellent point I think, your mother does not deserve the company of you or your sisters on Mothers day. What has she done to deserve it and why should you all subject yourselves to such stress? Next year I would seriously consider collectively telling her that you will NOT be taking her out and why. She can shout, cry and tell you that you are overreacting all she wants. You and your sisters know the truth so why should you have to continue aiding her in her self-denial? You may not be able to make her face the truth of her past actions but why should you make her life easy for her and spare her feelings? God knows she has never considered yours.
Sending you (and your sisters) hugs and well wishes.

You are not alone.

I took ages this year hunting for the right card. Finally found one which just said "Happy Mother's Day", not one that had a sickly glurge poem saying how wonderful a parent she was inside, but it did take me a long long time.

Nor did I invite her out to lunch this year for the first time ever. I do feel guilty, as if it's me being childish and punishing her, but it was so much more relaxing despite the fact that ds1 had sprained his ankle and dh had a bad migraine so it was very low key!

I totally relate to Attila's comment about it being a grieving process - I'm currently oscillating between anger and denial and it isn't pretty. I'm already starting to value myself much more though and there is an underlying feeling of relief finally having some boundaries in our relationship.

Hang on in there, come over to the Stately Homes thread. You'll be very welcome.

Toxic Parents. Good suggestion. Need something for little sister to read too.
Don't see why BT should be the only ones to benefit, as we spend hours on phone, going over and over it all. I feel I have moved on [although having your own children is a REAL shocker and makes you revisit your childhood again, quite painfully.]

Oh definitely.

My mother does this thing where she says "one day you'll understand" pointedly or gleefully telling me how I'm getting my karma as ds2 is just like I was that age (in an isn't he awful sort of way when he's not - he's an excitable 6 year old boy - she scapegoats him, but that's another rant) but the older my two children get the less I understand how she could be like that.

StickleTick I totally get where you are coming from, and could have written most of what you posted about my mum. Ditto the mothers' day dilemma. For the first time this year, i didn't phone yesterday, as she never phones for my birthday,so decided I would return the favour for once. But i still feel quilty of course.

Am working on my issues in therapy and it's taken 4 years to really start processing it all. You are not alone. I will post more when I have a bit more time and feel stronger.

I am glad you have the support of your sisters - v. important to have someone to corroborate your memories. My brother flatly denies we had an awful childhood, as he was the golden child. It's very lonely sometimes and I find myself doubting my own version of the truth.

I usually send a card, but didn't this year. I don't feel I have been mothered for years and feel very distant from my family. My mum still does loads for my brother and sister who live close to my parents, and basically my parents still support them financially. I doubt my siblings will have made any effort. Bit sad really.

Well, cremeeggs and bluebell, that's a really grim take on it.
Having had a tough childhood yourselves is bad enough, but then to have your siblings either refuse to agree that life was that bad, or, to see them still getting on with your parents well, regardless of your experiences, must be very tough.

I find writing things in a diary really does give validation if there's ever a moment's doubt how awful something was. [I'm lucky though, cos my younger sister has an excellent memory].

Can we petition the likes of Clintons to sell honest mothering sunday cards.

Here is the Mother's Day card I would have loved to have sent

www.code-d.com/tesco-cards/mothers-day-card.php

I didn't send one this year - usually I'm hunting for the one's that say "for you on Mother's Day" or something equally noncomittal.

Blast, can't spell, can't punctuate, thinking about my mother does my head in ...

The card is brilliant!

I never gave my mother cards for Mothers Day because she said she didn't want us to. (She liked a little treat on her birthday though.) I didn't feel guilty about it because she was not one for laying guilt trips on people. But then, she was the Right Sort Of Mother. She had her issues - who amongst us doesn't? - but she loved us, not as ego appendages or old-age insurance, but as her babies, the people she had the huge privilege of bringing into the world. She made us feel good about ourselves. (And dad undermined it, but that's another story!) It makes me cry a little bit whenever I read these threads by people who didn't get that kind of love. And well done all of you for growing up as well as you have done, and being determined to set a better example to your own DCs.

You should give cards, presents, posh lunches etc to your mother because you want to, because she was a lovely mother and you want to show how grateful you are for everything she's done for you. Not to a mean self-centred woman who happened to push you out into this world x decades ago, and has made you pay for it ever since, because she'll throw a huge strop if you don't. Ironically, the sort of mother who makes you feel guilty is the sort who is least deserving of consideration.