'I don't know if I love you' means 'I don't love you', doesn't it?

[hurtandangry]

dh says he doesn't know if he loves me anymore.

We started relate counselling a few weeks ago, on his instigation because he's not happy. It's only just dawned on me that this isn't an attempt to make the relationship work, it's part of his exit plan :( . Although I don't think he'd realised this himself tbh.

I don't know what to do.

Our relationship has been rocky since dd1 arrived 6 years ago. I think we had got quite dysfunctional (sniping and resentful on both sides), and was glad to get into counselling to address that, but I had no intention of ending the relationship.

Oh god, I don't know why I'm posting. I just feel totally heartbroken. I so want my beautiful dcs to have a happy family, and I can't see a way to make that happen.

I've told him this afternoon that I can't wait around for him to make up his mind about what he wants. But I think we should continue with relate as we need to establish some kind of healthy relationship in order to raise dcs together. But should we give it a few weeks before making a decision? to see if we can mend things? to see if he does still love me after all?

Dd1 found us both crying this afternoon and looks so sad and scared. Shit shit shit. I don't want to hurt the dcs, but I can't see a way of avoiding it.

I just feel so sad and angry and let down. I've tried so hard to give him a happy home and allow him to achieve his ambitions. I should have looked after myself more and him less.

:(

I'm going to post this even though is rambling nonsense. Sorry :(

hurtandangry - I don't think you are an idiot, he is for treating you and your children that way.

I can be hard when everything you have is so financially intertwined and to top it off he is unreasonable at the best of times to see how you could get through a split.

It will be a whole heap easier than dealing with another 10, 20, 30 or so years of angry resentful dumping by your DH and potentially more infidelity.

You are unhappy, he is unhappy your children will pick up on this and be unhappy. The best thing sometimes is a split for all concerned.

BTW, it has never crossed my mind that you are an idiot.
It is very difficult to look at the reality of things, even more difficult to acknowledge it so that you can take a concious and rational decision.
You are starting that process, that's a huge thing in itself.

God, it's terrible that you have been treated like this.

Don't do relate with him anymore or talk about his issues with him anymore. Or give him any support. Think about yourself. see if you can go to relate on your own, or to other therapy for yourself, these are complicated issues. And seek support in RL, even if it's hard to broach, is there someone who might listen?

Legal/financial advice a good plan too.

How, given what has happened, do you trust him working away? He sounds very selfish.

I know someone with personal experience of issues with a parent's hidden sexuality having an impact on them, stuff was hidden from them for many years and they feel like their childhood was a lie.

Feel awful for raising this, but in other threads on here men who use the "I'm not sure I love you" line are often having an affair. And the problems with the relationship were caused by the man detaching, givng themselves permission to stray, while the woman is made to feel that it was her fault, she must try harder etc. There are lots of good posts from whenwillifeelnormal on this stuff.

Really hope this isn't the situation here, but even if there is no affair/ sex with men, some of the advice on those other threads is still relevant.

You sound really brave.

I don't think you're an idiot, I think he has treated you with terrible cruelty.

Whatever caused his behaviour is no longer really relevant op, there is no point in fighting for this relationship, it's beyond repair from what I can see. He doesn't want it, he just wants you at his beck and call, while he does his thing. Whatever that is.

Please see a lawyer for advice. You do not offer your h support throughout the divorce, those days are gone.

How are you feeling tonight?x

Thanks for all your kind words.

I'm feeling fairly terrible just now. How on earth did I get here? It just seems ridiculous! If somebody else was writing this, I'd be incredulous that they'd let it go on for so long. I think I've been tied up with looking after the dcs, and working full time and studying and just life in general and have not wanted to face all this pain :(

He'll be back soon, and I don't know whether to tell him it's over tonight, or to wait for relate tomorrow or to wait until I've spoken to a lawyer or what.

I've asked him about an affair, and he swears there's nothing going on, but who knows?

Thanks again.

I would keep quiet for just a few more days if I were you op. There is no harm in waiting until you speak with a lawyer. The relate session may give you some clarity tomorrow as you are looking at him through different eyes.

Do you have family/friends for support?

have you brought up these past issues in the Relate sessions?

and i totally agree with whats been said already - its not your place to support him through any split - you have been too supportive of him and his emotional needs already and completely ignored your own.

definitely get some legal advice and i truly think you would be so much better off if you do split and so will your DCs. This man has given you nothing, except deception and heart ache and then made it your place to see him through it.

what an absolute twat. i dont very often shout leave him on these threads because i know nothing is ever black and white in a relationship - but i think this is one of those rare times it is.

leave him. and speak about this in the relate session - has the relate been purely for him and his needs?

you need to find some self esteem. and you wont find it in this dead beat relationship where he goes and sleeps with other men and then makes it your job to support him. god almighty. what would you say if your friend told you this? or your mum? imagine how your kids would feel in years to come, and what message your are sending them about a womans place in a relationship. What would you say to someone else in your position?

sod him. use the relate for yourself. get some legal advice and get out.

I haven't brought up these issues at relate, except for mentioning the money issues (as an aside and not in any detail).

I'm going to at today's session. I've told dh that I need to talk about this stuff and he's run the full gamut of responses from 'why do we have to rake over the past' to 'i'm such a useless cunt, you'll probably stop me seeing the dc's' to 'if you can't forgive me that this marriage is over'. He very very very much doesn't want anybody else to know about it, but he has now said that he'll come to the session. I don't really know what I hope to achieve, other than have my side heard.

My mum came to stay for a few days, but I haven't told her anything yet. I don't feel there's anyone I can talk to IRL, although I probably should. I don't want my friends to judge me (or him, for some reason).

It's helped so much to have the validation from this thread. Thanks again everybody.

im not sodding well surprised he doesnt want anyone else to know!!!! but tough shit! thats his problem - its NOT yours - he has behaved very very very badly and now its time to face the music.
relate wont work unless its honest and EVERYTHING is out in the open anway, why on earth do you want to stay with this man who is totally and utterly selfish?

really op - i think you should enlist RL support - i think part of the problem is that while you dont speak about it - in RL - its not happening.

and it is. he has let you down so badly and you truly do not deserve it.

you need to bring up all the issues at counselling for it to stand any chance, but really i think if you told your RL friends and family they would probably be horriified for you, and i think you know it.

stop validating him. get some support because id say what YOU are going through now is worse than anything HE is going through.

he is at fault here. you dont sleep with men, unprotected, then sleep with your still breast feeding wife - the risk he put you at was unforgivable - then he did it again! ffs!

i hope you do manage to start using the relate for your self, its not just about him - it shouldnt be anyway.

im sorry your going through this i really am.

I hope you do go to Relate tonight, and I hope you talk frankly about everything. Otherwise there is no point in the session. As the Vicar said, it's too bad he doesn't want anyone to know. No one knowing has enabled him to carry on using you for so long.

Time for you to get this off your chest, only then can you see what needs to be done. If you feel you cannot tell your mum, at least confide in her that things are worse than she may realise.

You really need the support.

how you doing hurtandangry?

been thinking about you.

This man is gay. And unfortunately for him and even more unfortunately for you, he has been raised by homophobic people and is homophobic himself. Hence the fact that he has married you and had DC to make himself 'look normal' to the outside world, but unfortunately it is not possible for a person to suppress who he really is, forever. It is not at all surprising that he is depressed and bad tempered and unpleasant.
HOwever, this is not to say that you don't matter. You are entitled to be treated with kindness and courtesy by a partner, it is not your job to be his camouflage at the expense of your own wellbeing for the rest of your life.

How are you hurtand angry? How did the Relate session go?

Sorry to disappear.

The relate session went OKish. He almost didn't come, and then he almost walked out and he did have quite an outburst of emotion (shame and anger and all sorts, really). But - neither of us actually told the counsellor what had happened.

She asked about the obvious tension in the room at the start of the appt, and I said that I wanted to tell her about something that dh didn't want to discuss and she said 'is it an affair?' and I said it was 'something like that'. And none of us then went into any detail. Interestingly, she said she'd thought that there was something unsaid in the sessions up til then.

But I think without knowing exactly what happened, she's not really able to ask the right questions. So I'm not sure it really got us anywhere.

Maybe you're right, SGB. He denies it completely, and I find it hard to believe, but he could be gay. He denies being attracted to men sexually at all and says it's about self destructive behaviour. He's certainly behaved similarly with women in the past (although not since he's been with me, AFAIK).

The counselling really cleared the air between us, and we're communicating much better than we ever have before.

We had a long conversation on Sunday, when he said that he just can't imagine what a good relationship would consist of (his parents' relationship is totally awful and his dad is an utter shit). I tried to explain what it meant to me (partnership, mainly, give and take, for better for worse, sharing... that kind of thing) and that that's what I expected and need from marriage and if this is going to work, he'll have to learn to give as well as take. He said he'd think about it

He sounds like a right catch, doesn't he?

I've read so many threads where somebody's said 'if someone tells you who they are, listen to them'. Why didn't I listen to him? He's always said he's a selfish cunt. I thought it was just low self esteen, but actually, I think he's right. Fuck.

:(

We had a really nice weekend, in the end. He's being a much better husband and father than he's ever been before.

I think I've spent the week in denial, assuming that it'll sort itself out. But it isn't going to, is it?

What can I expect to feel while splitting up with him? I move fairly rapidly from anger to denial to sadness and back to anger at the moment. How long will that go on for?

Obviously, I can't start to move on until we've made the decision and agreed that we're splitting.

Is is reasonable to wait until after easter? The dcs are looking forward to some nice family time :(

Because of the bank holidays it's another two weeks before we're due to go back to relate.

We've already talked through quite a lot about financial arrangements etc and it seems that we're able to be civilised about it. most of the time, anyway.

I feel bereft.

No my love, it's not going to sort itself out and you can't sort it out while he is in denial about his attraction to men. Men that aren't attracted to men don't have sex with them... especially not two different men, at two different time. Maybe he's bi, maybe he's gay - maybe he wont ever have sex with another man again... who knows... & really - who cares? The fact is that he cheated on you, it's less important what the sex of that person was (is?).

He is right though - he is a selfish cunt. Just look at what HE has put YOU through and he is the snivelling little shit saying he doesn't know if he loves you - fucking incredible.

He is telling you who he is & yes, you need to listen.

He may stop sleeping with men, but he will never stop being a selfish cunt.

I'm sorry he had a shit childhood - but he's an adult now and has been for a long time, he needs to grow up and get over that, all the BS about not knowing what a good relationship would consist of is just that BS! He knows that fucking other people (& not even bloody safely) is NOT part of a good relationship. It's simply easier to blame his childhood than it is to take any responsibility for his actions.

You deserve better than this, tell him to do one and make a better life for yourself & your DC x