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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

is it possible to be truly and honestly happy again after your dh has an affair?

39 replies

keelybooboo · 31/03/2011 13:38

i'll keep it brief,

found out on sat dh has been having an affair for the last 3 months or so with a woman from work. he has ended it now and cannot believe that i still want to be with him and havent thrown him out.

we have been married for 14yrs have dd14 and ds8 together, we are both mid 30's

what i really want to know is even though i am devestated and feel let down and humiliated and more i want it to be gotten over iyswim. will i end up bitter and twisted 20yrs from now wishing i'd told him to fuck off? is it possible to trust again?

i know that its really early days and its still all so raw but in agreeing to try and make it work as i still love him have i made myself look like a mug who'll put up with anything?

i don't know. any advice from anyone who's been there?

OP posts:
sufficient · 31/03/2011 13:52

Yes, it absolutely is. I'm staring the end of my marriage in the face at the moment, so no personal help, but have a look at this support thread: Recovery after an affair

Lots of people will be along to help you on yours as well.

Good luck xx

anothermum92 · 31/03/2011 14:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

sufficient · 31/03/2011 16:43

Yes, that's exactly right. It is 100% about what HE does now, your job is not to sabotage his restoration efforts, if that's what you want.

But your H needs to want this with everything he has, and give everything he has to fix it.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 31/03/2011 20:09

Yes it's absolutely possible, but then again my H's affair was nothing to do with our marriage, so perhaps it's easier in those circumstances.

What has made us even happier since (almost 3 yrs on now) are the massive changes he made to his behaviour and attitudes. He took complete responsibility for his brief affair, never once blamed me or our relationship, went to solo therapy about his own issues, changed job so that he spent more time with us as a family, apologised to everyone in our lives, was willing to talk endlessly and honestly about what happened and he is so much happier himself for the changes he made. In fact every single valuable relationship in his life has improved.

It's a very hard road for the faithful partner and I needed to be absolutely sure that I was staying for one reason only - my love for him. But that wouldn't have been enough if he hadn't been prepared to make the necessary changes and earn my forgiveness. He really didn't put a foot wrong, but it has been the most difficult period in our lives and is not for the faint-hearted. The pain has been indescribable at times.

We had been married for 24 years when this happened, but we had always had a good marriage, albeit with the usual ups and downs. Even though the affair's cause was not relational, because my H is now more emotionally honest and invests more in the relationship, our marriage now feels exceptional and I feel very lucky. I have also learned so much about myself in the past 3 years.

I can honestly say now that my marriage is happier than ever, I love him more now, I've never felt more cherished and adored and as an added bonus, I'm having the best sex of my life Wink.

I'm very happy to help you get through this and as an instant recommendation, suggest you buy Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. It is the best book on the market about this issue, IMO.

HerHissyness · 01/04/2011 00:34

WWIFN.... Can I ask? When Did you start to Feel Normal, or are you still working on it?

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 01/04/2011 00:53

Smile It was a gradual thing Hissy. But my God, my H fought for me, whenever I felt like giving up. He has earned my massive respect because he did all the difficult things and now they are second nature to him. Although I couldn't have felt more loved right from discovery day, it took an awful long time to feel joy about anything in life, but brief glimpses started to come through at the year anniversary mark and by the second year, I started to feel joy again in even the simplest of things.

I actually trust him more now than I ever did - and believe me, I thought my trust was total before. I now often advise people that if you do this properly, there is an even greater taboo in place than there ever is in someone whose fidelity has not really been tested.

I still wish it hadn't happened and he wishes that more, but there have been such gains in all sorts of areas of our lives, that I do sometimes wonder how we would have achieved all that without this awful experience.

NunTheWiser · 01/04/2011 01:02

I think it is possible to be happy again, as long as your DH doesn't think that getting past this means just sweeping it under the rug and carrying on as normal.

Your husband has to accept that it is up to him to "fix" the damage done. It is not up to you to be more loving, give him more sex, give him more freedom, give him more time and space "to sort his head out" Hmm. He has to do everything in his power to get you to trust him again. He has to be prepared to accept your anger, your hurt, and your questions. If he can't or won't do this, then no, you can't be truly happy, even if you are still together.

lostinthejungle · 01/04/2011 06:15

WWIFN, having appreciated your advice so much in other threads, it's great to hear some of the detail of what happened in your own marriage. I was a bit confused, though, when you said "my H's affair was nothing to do with our marriage, so perhaps it's easier in those circumstances". I thought one of your central beliefs was that it is never to do with (the state of) the marriage, but rather the individual vulnerabilities of the unfaithful partner? Sorry, trying to understand, could you explain what you said here? Thanks!

lostinthejungle · 01/04/2011 06:25

Suff, to be honest I have not come away very hopeful about this issue after accompanying the Recovery after an Affair thread. So many of the survivors still talk about how it comes back to bite even after a long time. But maybe I just see doom and gloom everywhere at the moment! I shall have to look back again and see if I can be more balanced.

OP, apart from here on Mumsnet (and I too would love to hear from other members who feel like their marriages unequivocally improved after they had got through this) if you google the infidelity issue you will see that a couple of North American women turn up again and again. Here's one of them: ezinearticles.com/?How-to-Know-When-You-Just-Cant-Get-Over-Infidelity&id=3814252. And this is the other one: www.beyondaffairs.com/articles/signs_of_infidelity.htm

Those two, along with WWIFN, are the clearest examples that I can see of the happy outcome we would all wish for. But of course, everybody's circumstances are different, and the background to my husband's affair for one doesn't give great cause for optimism, though right now I am prepared to try.

nooka · 01/04/2011 06:39

My dh had his affair about six years ago now and after a fairly seriously unpleasant period of time, followed by a separation we have now been happily together again for about three years (and we just hit 20 years together six months or so ago). I don't think I'll feel bitter and twisted in the future, but you never know.

I think that you have to be really clear about what you want for yourself and make decisions based on your own honest feelings. For us separating was important (although I fought it at the time) because it meant that we could choose to be together again, and I think that's incredibly important. You have to recommit I think, and essentially start a new relationship, and you both have to make that positive choice.

So no I don't think it's a mug's choice to make a new start with your dh. I think if you do it with open eyes it is a very brave choice in many cases. But I agree with WWIFN that your dh has to do a great deal of the running. For my dh and I we also had to both of us understand the root causes of our marriage falling apart, because things were dysfunctional, and some of those things we have to continue to be aware of even now and make sure that we don't get into a bad place again. That's not to say that the problems we were having in any way justify the affair, just that we are more aware of our individual vulnerabilities and our relationship's vulnerabilities too.

On the other hand going it alone could also be the right choice for you and lead you toward a happier future so don't dismiss it as an option. It's almost certainly what most people will expect you to do (at least that's my experience, all my very supportive friends counseled me to leave, and indeed prior to the affair I would have done the same probably without much of a second thought).

nooka · 01/04/2011 06:47

I'm not sure I'd say that my marriage improved as a result of the affair. It certainly is much much better than it was at the time, immediately after or immediately before and I have no doubts that getting back together was the right thing to do. But the period just before we decided to have children (12-13 years ago now) was probably the best we've ever been together - after all it was so good that we decided to have children :)

Now it just seems in many ways as if that period of misery was some strange aberration. Sometimes it is odd to look back and think did he really do that? When we talk about it together that certainly seems to be the strongest feeling from dh, disbelief that he could ever have behaved so badly or that he was attracted to his OW. I have a different sort of trust in him now, and a different trust in our relationship's resiliency too.

lostinthejungle · 01/04/2011 06:56

Keelybooboo, hope you don't mind if I butt in on your thread because you and I have the same question.

Nooka, very inspirational posts. Could you tell us a bit more about the seriously unpleasant period of time (duration, evolution of your feelings) and the separation (duration)? How did your feelings evolve also once you'd got back together? Do you have kids? If so, how old were they at the time and how did they influence your situation/decisions? Thanks so much!

nooka · 01/04/2011 07:58

Sure :) I know that it's nice to hear from people who don't choose to end it all because it seems quite counter intuitive to do anything else (I was firmly of the cut up his clothes and throw them out of the window school of thought myself).

Our relationship took a huge hit when we had two children within 16mths and dd (no2) was very hard work. We just stopped working as a team and shut each other out really and both started to feel unloved and stopped being very loving. We did try and fix things a few times, and I think were on the upward slope of that when dh really hit a bit of a mid-life crisis of sorts, which led along with other things to his affair.

I figured out something was very wrong quite early (it was an emotional leading to physical affair, mostly conducted over the internet - very tacky really!) but it took many months before I got enough evidence to confront him about it. So a lot of sneaking and thinking I was going crazy. Many nights of crying myself to sleep.

Once she knew I confronted him his OW dumped him pretty much on the spot (she was also married with children, so a lot to lose I guess although she did end up divorced some time later). So then we had a few fairly horrible months where dh was grieving his (at this point rather besotted teenage like relationship) relationship and I was furious and obviously very upset, but both of us continued to play at being a normal family (the children were probably about 4 and 6). Then he had his moment of truth and realised what an utter shit he'd been, but his response at that point was to decide he couldn't possibly do anything to make up for it and wasn't good enough for me in any shape of form. which was very annoying (if true).

I think at that point I had a bit of an accident and broke my arm and jaw, and work arranged for me to have counseling whilst I recovered. Which was fantastic and made a huge difference to my outlook on many things. But home was still very tricky and things weren't getting any better (still much crying on both our behalves). A few months later we had a huge row about something very silly and dh decided we should separate (he thought the row was very bad, esp for the children, whereas I had just learned to be outwardly angry and was quite liberated by it).

So he moved out. I think this was about a year, perhaps more after I confronted him. It made a huge difference. We both got to grow up a bit and have some space (the children lived with us 50:50) and fairly soon after we found ourselves effectively dating. It was still pretty painful, but also liberating. We'd been together since university, so never really lived alone, and I think it was a good experience on the whole. It was quite fun being boyfriend/girlfriend really, and the sex was great Blush. The children accepted it amazingly easily and as we were getting on much better I think they were OK. Certainly school said that we seemed to be handling it very well as they were clearly not upset by the change. In practice they got much more time with us each (we both jiggled work hours to work more when we were single and less when we were single parents). They don't seem even now to consider it to have been a very difficult time.

After about 18mths dh decided he wanted to emigrate, whilst still having shared care. I was once more very angry as I thought this was an insane plan (still do), and went off to get a separation agreement prior to divorce proceedings. I think that was the point when I realised that wasn't what I wanted at all. We had a long talk and agreed to look at emigrating together (although to a place of my choice). A few months later he moved back in, and six months later we did emigrate. And it worked (phew really!)

All a bit of a soap opera, and some of my friends thought so a bit too much. Now it seems like a lifetime ago, and the OW more like an ex than a mistress. I guess I know it's no longer a pertinent factor in that I can type all this without feeling anything very much, wheras I bet there are threads on here from a few years ago where I've talked about our history and felt the pain again as I did so. That's not to say that it couldn't come back mind, as I don't think that you can undo the vulnerabilities, just build new strengths.

Sorry - long! But I hope some of it is helpful. I think we all take our own paths through this sort of thing and there are few if any rules about what to do or how to feel. What was very important to me is that dh had to chose to leave (I felt that I wasn't going to make it easy for him by throwing him out IYSWIM) and that I always tried to behave in a way that I could be proud of. We both made absolutely sure that our parenting remained mutually agreed and that the children were as sheltered as they could be. Oh and having fantastic supportive friends and family was essential to getting through everything.

sufficient · 01/04/2011 09:50

nooka, thank you so much for sharing that. I haven't come across your story before and it's really good to read.

Hope you're encouraged, OP.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 01/04/2011 10:14

To clarify Lost I absolutely do think that some affairs happen because of relational difficulties, but that this is never the sole cause. And I think the vulnerability that is ever-present in every affair is the unfaithful partner's individual risk of infidelity.

So, when an affair happens, the couple has to work out how significant that individual vulnerability is and if there were others, i.e. relational, lifestyle and social. The whole thrust of my argument is that a holistic approach should be taken to infidelity.

WRT relational vulnerabilities, I always suggest that couples think hard about what for them, constitutes a "good" marriage, because I think it is far too easy to turn the spotlight on an infidelity-blighted marriage and find risk factors and discord, that would be found in most marriages for some of the time - and in greater quantity and severity in some marriages that haven't suffered an infidelity crisis.

If on the other hand, the discord was severe and the intimacy (not just sex) was impoverished, then it would be ridiculous not to count that as a risk factor. But it's never the only one, because many people in dire marriages nevertheless have a personal barrier to infidelity, based on their own personal or moral code.

I have always said that while a happy fulfilling marriage is no insurance policy against infidelity, it will always provide a deterrent factor.

The really difficult thing I found from my own personal experience, was that I knew that our marriage had actually been at a high point before my H's affair and my H had even commented on it, the month before the OW made contact with him out of the blue. On discovery and ever since, my H was also absolutely insistent that this had got nothing to do with our marriage and everything to do with him at that time in his life. Yet, like many people, I thought that there must have been something missing, because that's how I had been socialised all my life; to think that affairs only happened in unhappy marriages.

So powerful was that discourse, for some time after discovery despite what my H was insisting and my own memories, I had trouble believing him. Worst still, because our marriage had in fact deteriorated rapidly from the point of first contact with the OW, I had been "counting" that period (a year or so) as evidence of relational discord. My H realised I was doing this and insisted I stopped looking for causes that weren't there. It was especially insightful to hear him say that not one of his justifications or permissions at the time, had anything to do with beliefs about our poor relationship. In his case, the distancing that occurred after first contact with the OW were for his own purposes in that he found it impossible to go ahead with an affair, when he still felt emotionally connected to me. Because he was addicted to the affair feelings and not the woman herself, he simply couldn't continue to get his "fix" if we were as happily connected as we'd always been - and especially had been just prior to his affair.

So in our case, we had quite a few lifestyle vulnerabilities to iron out, a few easy and minor relational issues that are commonplace in long marriages, an interesting journey about how we had both been socialised according to our gender, but the biggest issue was my H's behaviour and removing the character and personality traits that always permit infidelity.

That last bit is always the most challenging and difficult part of the process, yet IME it is invariably the one that gets avoided by couples and couple counsellors, yet it is ubiquitous in every case of infidelity.

orangeeyebrows · 01/04/2011 11:02

yes but takes a long long time

keelybooboo · 01/04/2011 11:15

thanks every one, i feel more positive today - mind you i felt ok yesterday morning and then in the afternoon it just hit me smack in the face all over again.

i'm hoping that today is a better day

OP posts:
twostraightlines · 01/04/2011 11:28

WWIFN what a great post.

It is quite an eye-opener that your H went ahead with his affair despite your marriage being so good at that time. I want to wear a badge saying "it wasn't my fault" because I can tell that some people leap immediately to the conclusion that my H had an affair purely and simply because he wasn't happy at home.

Time is clearly one healing factor after an affair but all the things WWIFN talks about are much more important. Time alone will not allow trust to return or change people's behaviour, only action can do that.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 01/04/2011 11:59

Thanks TSL but the point is he didn't go ahead and have an affair until he had been in contact with the OW for 10 months. He needed that time to detach from our marriage and right from first contact, it was the usual story of boundaries being crossed, each one serving to normalise the last. The first clue to this was his admission that if he had either seen the OW face to face from the start, or she had made her agenda clear from the off, he would have backed off and away. In fact within this period, he refused to meet up several times, something that was confirmed by the OW herself. As it was, a 10 month period of E mails, then texts and phone calls and no personal contact for a whole year, provided the fantasy conditions and the time necessary to give himself permission.

I know what you mean about that badge. It frustrates me intensely, because if a woman's marriage had hit difficulties because of her H's emotional or physical abuse or his substance misuse, no-one would feel entitled to say it was her fault too.

countingto10 · 01/04/2011 12:33

It's interesting the length of time our DH's needed to detach and give themselves permission. This is something I have recently been discussing with my DH. He has worked it out that it probably took him 6/7 months to detach and give himself permission. He was aware that OW was interested from when they first met but he either ignored her innuendos or did rebuff her on occasions. It was only after Christmas 2009 when he was extremely busy at work, stressed and major cashflow problems that he fully gave himself permission to take her out etc, thinking why not and Counting will never know Hmm.

I presume the longer the permission giving stage the more attached they are to us.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 01/04/2011 13:14

Yes I think that's absolutely the case Counting. If a permission-giving phase is short, IMO this points to two things - either there has been previous undiscovered infidelity and the taboo is not so great, or detachment has been a longstanding issue that pre-dated the arrival of the OW/OM.

cabbageroses · 01/04/2011 17:12

WWIFN- can I just ask you to clarify a word you keep using?
You keep saying relational. Is this a term that psychotherapists use - ie jargon?

Relational is not a synonym for relationship(s) and I for one often end up confused by what you mean.

To my knowledge, relational means the relative juxtapostioning of something to something else.

Maybe that's what you mean- but in most cases when you write it, I can't help think you mean simply relationship.

Not having a go at you- genuinely confused/interesetd as my work is all about words.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 01/04/2011 18:45

I've no idea if it is jargon used by psycho-therapists CR, it certainly seems to be a common adjective used to describe relationships in all sorts of media, so I'm surprised you've never come across it before in that context. It's certainly what I mean by the term. I've been using the word for so long without query that I've probably never looked it up, but I did just now because like you, my work is very much about words. The first definition shown in my dictionary is "of kinship" and since I imagine that as many people would cite their spouse, close relatives or close friends as "next of kin" or the more modern term "emergency or first contact" then this is why it is used in this way, to describe a relationship with someone.

nooka · 02/04/2011 02:46

I think that fault and blame are interesting issues when there is an affair. Like many people I guess I veered between total blame toward dh and guilt that somehow I was to blame. One of the very useful things my counselor said to me was that I was not responsible for my dh's decisions no matter what, it was his path to walk. I found that very helpful. But I also had to recognize that dh and I together had got into some very poor patterns of behaviour and that if we were t rebuild then we needed to make some changes to the way we interacted.

Interesting about the permission stuff. dh knew very well that his OW was predatory (she made a move very early on, which he rejected) she was in a very unhappy marriage and looking for validation I think. But for me the sexual part was fairly small beer really, it was the emotional relationship, the disconnection from his family and the gradual painting of me as a bad guy that did the damage. It took him a long time to recognise that though, and then more time to recognise that in fact he was the bad guy and to square that with his internal image of himself as someone really fairly morally upstanding.

cabbageroses · 02/04/2011 07:56

Sorry to hijack OP but I don't think relational is the right word. In the dictionary it refers to kinship as an outdated usage, but gives no other definition applicable to "relationships".

I have never heard it used except in your posts. I take it to mean a "relational cause" ie if you drink too much you will become drunk- in other words a "consequence" or one action is interdependent on another.

I don't think that the usage of "pertaining to the relationship" ( between a couple) is "relational".

But that's just my opinion/experience.

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