H had two affairs, but been for counselling and accepeted all responsibility. Things are good, but...

[iambroken]

....What if I let myself be truely happy and it all falls down around me again.

I started a thread at the beginning of March (sorry dont know how to do links). I had disocovered that DH had been having his second affair in 3 years. In the coming weeks things got a lot worse untill I basically ended our marriage, even though it was the last thing I wanted to do. But somehow we clung on and when DH finally realised what he would be losing.. not just the house and family life, but me as a person and as a wife. It was like everything came clear to him and in the space of an hour he had reconnected with me and finished with OW.

Now he has had 3 threapy sessions with a counsellor and has identified that he as a person thrives on building relationships and needs lots of praise and recognition and he was able to blank out his other life and allow himself to carry on connecting with the OW.

The counsellor seems good and has taught him some strategies to put in place incase he ever finds himself taking a working relationship to another level again.

Now the counsellor says he only needs one more session and he is adamant that me and our life together is want he wants and that this is never, ever going to happen again. I do believe that he means every word he is saying but how do I know he wont lose sight of everything again? I have said to him that if there is ever a next time there wont even be a discussion, it will be the end (and it will be). He says there wont be a next time.

Two real life friends know about this and my mum. They all think what he have is too good to throw away and agree with my decision to forgive him.

Shall I l let myself be truely happy....I guess its the only way to live.

well, the first thing I would say is that doesn't seem like very intensive counselling....when I had therapy it took a year before I felt that I had really taken myself to pieces and remade myself! Has that been enough for him to look seriously at who he is, how he became that person and construct a new identity, an identity where he will be comfortable committing completely to you?

one thing about trust - it has to be earned, I know that's a cliche, but sometimes we all ask 'can I trust him' of our partners - the answer is, only time will tell. It would be naive of you to completely trust him on the first day of a new life that you are trying to build.

I think you are expecting too much of yourself if that's what you are looking for. Yes, if you believe he is sincere in his desire to change and to recommit - and if you had a good happy relationship before things went wrong, then of course you can try again. But a more realistic approach than immediate trust is to accept that you will have to learn to trust again, that he will have to prove himself to you.

Yes you will have to have faith, because snooping doesn't work - in that respect you will have to take some steps back, while ensuring he is open with you at all times - it's not an easy answer but I think this will be about giving yourself time to see / watch/ decide. Put your heart into it while keeping your head.....when you start a new relationship, you wouldn't expect to completely trust someone immediatley, and that is what you are doing now...take it slowly and let him know that you are going to give him a chance to prove himself, but that he has work still to do.

Thanks for your rpely Waterat. Yes I agree that snooping doesn't work and itw would just drive me crazy if i felt like I had to keep checking his phone etc. I do trust my instinct as both times before I had a nagging feeling that things werent right.

He does understand that he has to prove himself and make me feel everyday that he loves and wants me.

I was a bit suprised that the counsellor doesn't think she needs to see him anymore.

sorry for typos, been a long day

I think you have to tell yourself 'I am going to enjoy my husband and our life togehter but if for any reason we should split up, I know that I am able to cope, I will go through a grieving process but I will also come out of the other side of it and carry on with my life.'

And absolutely be specific about what you need from him.

Take time to work on your confidence and don't depend on him to make you feel good / worthy of love.

What happened in between you ending the marriage, and him coming back? Did he move out? How long did it take?

I'm sorry I can't help, I chucked H out three weeks ago and he was on the phone to OW at 7am the next morning to say he was finally free and they could now see each other properly :(

All I can suggest is that you join the girls on this thread, a lovely bunch of women all trying to recover their marriages after an affair.

Good luck xx

Is it NHS or through occ health? A lot places are limited to only 4 sessions.

The counselling sounds too short to me considering that he has had 2 affairs in 3 years, he must have disconnected with you quite a bit in order to be able to do that.

Perhaps relationship counselling?

Forgive me if I am speaking out of turn, but, are you giving yourself adequate time to come to terms with what your Dh has done to you by having an affair? A friend of mine 'rushed to forgive' her partner and after things were back to normal she broke up the relationship because the impact of the events had not properly addressed and her partner had failed to deal with the damage he had done to her by having an affair.

Are you the poster who turned up at a hotel at Christmas-time and even then he lied about what he had been doing?

If so, I'd really urge caution. I recall that the poster concerned was feeling pressurised by her family to suck it up and there was also some self-imposed pressure about a half-term holiday in May with H, the DCs and the ILs.

4 counselling sessions wouldn't have touched the sides I'm afraid. Either your H is lying about even having counselling, or about the counsellor's professional judgement that he is the finished article. He has seen your pain twice now - doing this again is actually extreme cruelty. There's absolutely no chance that he has changed his character so radically in such a short space of time.

What are you really afraid of, if you leave this marriage? What are you afraid of if you stay? Wouldn't it be helpful for you to have some counselling about such a momentous decision?

I agree about counselling for you - you are both in this relationship and you should also be looking at your own feelings. It will help you look at how you feel about him, how the relationship developed, talk through issues such as trust - but also look back at your own family and how it shaped your response to family life...

Sorry but I don't believe any counsellor would tell someone that 4 sessions is all that's needed. I think your H is either lying or hearing what he wants to hear.

Also why can you forgive 2 affairs but not 3? I totally understand people giving a second chance after one affair, but what is it about the third affair that would make it a deal breaker when the second one wasn't?

one thing I would think about that level of counselling ie. only a few sessions - it's not likely to go beyond what he already believes about himself. a counsellor won't be able to draw out of him difficult truths or get him to challenge his own beliefs in that kind of time - but he may have had time to talk briefly about what he himself thinks the reasons for the affair are. What kind of counselling was it?

As the others here say, there is no benefit to saying you are happy in the relationship and that you trust him before you really do. Give it time to see how you do really feel - and let him know that he has to be supportive in that. If he is saying 'well, im a totally different person now' - your response could legitimately be - well, we'll see about that in the long run won't we.

That's the whole point, isn't it? That's why affairs are bad for long-term relationships. Because it's not just all about what one partner chooses to get up to when the other one isn't watching. It's about the impact on the non-cheating partner too. You aren't a piece of furniture waiting to come home and be sat on, you're a human being with feelings which you are fully entitled to. So if he comes home with the "oh yes I've found out what's causing my affairs and it's all going to be fine now" line (which I join everyone else in being very dubious about), it's perfectly reasonable for you to reply that you are not all fine now. This is not about you punishing him long-term for the hurt he caused, but about taking time to rebuild trust. One thing's for certain, if he doesn't acknowledge your pain and mistrust are legitimate, no way he's anywhere near "cured".

What WWIFN said.

4 sessions is not enough.

You need counselling, too.

And I think he's lying about what the counsellor said.

I'm a counsellor training to be a therapist, and I would echo what many others have said here. My initial reaction is that four sessions are nowhere near enough. Counselling is open-ended, and unfortunately budgetary constraints often dictate how long a counsellor sees a client, which I feel can cause more damage than good.

Therapists often work on the proviso that three sessions are enough to find out whether they can build a good relationship with a client, and from there it can be months, even years before they consider suggesting an ending. Even short-term therapy work is measured in months and not weeks.

So, to recap: four sessions and that will suffice? Nuh-uh.

Thank you ladies for all taking the time to reply. i'm just going to work through the replies and answer your questions.

sufficient Sorry to hear about your situation, I have seen your thread but dont much time to post, although I seem to remember we were posting about our H's on the same day 3 weeks ago. No H didnt move out, I found an online chat message between him and OW (I changed his settings to save his chats). In the message it seems he was leaving me to move in with her, lots of I love yous etc. Previous to this I new about an EA but he was claiming to be very confused about whether he wanted our marriage to end or not, said he had feelings for OW, but I didnt know to what extent. I new he was in a very important meeting at the time and I had DC at home so I simply sent him a text message saying I knew everything and our marriage was over. I then sent her an email. When he returned home, there was no begging on either part, we both accepted, although with great saddness that this was it. There was no way i Was going to forgive another affair and trust him again. He was deeply upset but never once did he ask me to change my mind, he says he new there was no point. We had a family day out planned for the next day and we agreed to still go as the DC were looking forward to it. I was shell shocked and dying inside but I tried to make the most of it. During the course of the day and the weekend we both indepdently came to the decision that we didn't want this to be the end of our marriage. We didnt say thats it we're back toether but we did agree that maybe we could work on it.

WhenwillIfeelnormal I was hoping you would join the thread as your advice and opinion is always so spot on. I dont believe that H is lying about having counselling or that he is lying about what her professional opinion. He found the initial appointment very difficult as he finds talking to anyone like that extremely hard. I am not making excuses for him, but surely this shows his commitment to our marriage. I can see that he has done this twice and I would be giving the same advice that you can forgive once but not twice. But last time the reasons for his affair were never dealt with and the counsellor thinks the feelings he had about being forgiven have carried him for the last few years but becasue we never dealt with his personal reasons for the affair it was ineveitable that it would happen again. I totally agree that 4 sessions are not enough, but like the others said he does seem to think he has learnt enough about himself to stop it happening again. I agree with everyone that surely he cant have been cured in 4 sessions.

NorthernSky It must be incredibly hard for you to deal with someone who seems to be instantly shouting "I'm cured!" and expecting you to process your own emotions and reactions accordingly. And you seem to think that you should? He's not allowing you the time that you need. You don't have to commit this quickly. I took almost a year (with a few wobbles initially where I said yes, then changed my mind the next day/few days later. It took me 6 months to realise that I was expecting too much of myself and not coping at all. Then I did a total break, and we "dated" for about 5 more while I got myself together). That paragraph was very helpful. I think I need to give myself permisssion for feeling like this.

Anniegetyourgun One thing's for certain, if he doesn't acknowledge your pain and mistrust are legitimate, no way he's anywhere near "cured". He does understand my pain and mistrurst but neither of us no what to do about it. I told him that i need to feel everyday that he loves me and I am what he wants and he is doing this. He is absolutley adament that me, our live and our family is what he wants forever and he is making this clear in his actions.

Lots of usefel advise and its all been taken on board. Shall I insist that he carrys with the counselling, with the same counsellor or different one? He said he had no problem with going back at a later date if he feels her need to. The counsellor is a private one which he is paying personnally for and she has seemed to hit the nail on the head with identifying his chracateristics that lead him to the affairs.

Can you link to your original thread then or give some more information about the two affairs? It's difficult to advise without all the information.

I seriously doubt that any counsellor would seek to end the therapy herself after 4 sessions. And because she sounds good, I'm even more sceptical. I think your H might want to end the sessions, not her. Perhaps he feels that this box has been ticked now and that will suffice?

It won't.

I agree that if the first affair's causes were swept under the carpet, it was pretty inevitable that it would happen again and you need to share that responsibility tbh - but so does he. Out of the two of you, he knew that there was every likelihood he would be unfaithful again and he was the only person who could prevent it - not you and not anyone else. You on the other hand, might have bargained that it could never happen again because he saw your pain and couldn't do it to you again. But he did.

If you said after the first affair that you would never forgive a second, but here you are considering doing just that, what's the incentive to change for him? He knows at some level that you don't carry out your threats - that possibly even a third affair will be forgiven. You might resist this very strongly, but your actions speak louder than your words.

If you are determined to forgive, then he needs much more therapy and I think you'd find your own solo therapy helpful too. I really would advise against reconciliation until that process is gone through.

Remember that we don't tend to value the things we haven't had to fight to get. And if we've never lost something and assume it will always be there whatever happens, we value things much less.....

iambroken - just a few words on therapy. Ingrained beliefs will not be sorted out after 3 sessions. Therapy just doesn't work like that. My H had serious issues. He's been in therapy for over a year (weekly) and is only now beginning to change his way of thinking (so that it comes unconciously iykwim?).
I cannot believe that any therapist would consider their work to be done after 3 sessions.

Will try to link..

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1163181-Can-we-save-our-marriage

Thank you for your replyWWIFN. I can completely see that my actions speak louder than words. But this last episode has taught me that this is absolutley the last time. He cannot show such a willingness to change, only to so it again and be forgiven again. I would be ok on my own and if he ever did it again I realise I would be much better off without him. The reason I have forgiven for a second time is beacause of his commitment to change. If the commitment has no substance in the long run, there is no hope for a future.

For the last few weeks we have both reconnected with each other and he is more like the man i first knew. The counsellor said he has an addiction to the feelings that are apparent at the start of a new relationship. I can see that now our marriage is like a new relationship to him and he is relishing it that. He said the counsellor said such addictions are very hard to treat. So why is she suggesting he is ok now. I do believe that she has said that one more session is enough, he has been nothing but honest with me about what goes on in the session and has said he is willing to go back if he need to. But as the counsellor said one more sessions he thinks he must be cured.

FWIW - the seond affair was an EA. He never even kissed her, but he did admitt it wasnt through choice, just logistics! How can he be planning to leave me for someone he's not even kissed?

Oh dear. Thanks for the link to your thread.

Then you will know where I am coming from when I tell you that creating a "new" relationship is the easy bit after an affair. It's a bit harder to remove all the lifestyle vulnerabilities, extremely hard to reverse years of social conditioning and the most difficult challenge of all is to remove your H's individual vulnerability to infidelity, which is the main culprit here.

Hence, your H and you are nursing a delusion that as your relationship is so good now and like it was years ago when you first met, this will solve the problem. But it won't, trust me. You are in fact mimicking the bright beginning to which your H is addicted.

At some point in every relationship, there will be more than one slump and occasions when life and other people's needs get in the way. When the relationship is way down the pecking order. That's when your H will be seduced by yet another bright new beginning. His addiction is to the start of relationships and that's why he appears changed to you now, because your relationship feels "new" again.

But in truth, you can never be "new" again. And there are unfortunately lots of daft women out there who will be willing to be the new shiny thing in your H's life (not that he will tell them that, of course and each will be told that this is the "first time he has ever strayed!").

If he is telling the truth and this counsellor thinks 4 sessions is enough to deal with his issues, then yes he should change therapist.

There's a story in Not Just Friends about a man who was addicted to bright beginnings and the romance and subterfuge of illicit relationships. He confessed that getting a few weeks of grief when and if he was discovered was worth it, in exchange for 6 months of excitement with each new affair.

Don't let yourself be that wife.

I won't let myself be that wife.

He says he understands he is relishing in the newness of our relationship and that he knows things will return to normal. He reckons he will never allow himself to go there againn and if he finds himself connecting with someone, he will tell me. I believe he means this now, but if it starts happening again he wont be in the same place he is now will he? He will be carried away in the moment and forget all this. When i say this, he wont have it. He knows understands where I am coming from but says Me our family are all he wants and he has come so close to losing it all that it will NEVER happen again.

Got to get Dc from school now. i really appreciate you taking the time to help me WWIFN.