How's best to help DD?

[sleepygirl]

DD is 8yo. Usually quite a happy child. But over the weekend, she kept getting upset and crying for no apparent reason. I had asked her to do her homework, and she got really upset, calling herself stupid. She seemed really tired so she had a couple of early nights. When we went to the shops, we were bout to go down some esculators. We both step on at the same time usually as DD gets nervous with them. So I count down to 3 and we both went to step on. However, DD quickly pulled away, but by this point, I was already on, so had to run back up and grab her. She then began crying again, and I could see in her mouth some blood, I'm guessing she bit her self or something. When I asked her how she did it, she became really distressed and panicky and saying she was scared.

Today after school, I sat down with her and asked her if there was something troubling her. She told me how at the moment her friends are all arguing at school and she's afraid they'll all break up. So we talked about that. We also talked about her father. He rarely sees her. His parents have to drive him down as he lives over 100 miles away, doesn't drive, is unemployed so can't afford to travel down but doesn't like to travel by public transport anyway...

So all in all, DD sees her father once every 3/4 months. And when he does come, his parents are here and sometimes his sister. DD has now got to a point where she doesn't want to see him without his sister (who is a lovely girl and keeps in regular contact, and always makes a big fuss over DD) or his parents (who, after a long time, I'm on good terms with, and I know how much they love DD). Ex can't even be bothered to phone her or even email her. Last time he called to ask how she was was back in December for her birthday. I think he relies on info of how DD is through his sister or parents. But I don't want to punish them by stop speaking to them just so he doesn't have it easy knowing how DD is doing iykwim.

Anyway, today I told DD about how I've booked a hotel room for a weekend in the beginning of summer near where they live so we can take DD there to spend with them (ex still lives with parents and sister will be there too otherwise I wouldn't be happy with ex having DD on his own, don't trust him to be quite frank). They are all taking DD on holiday for a week away. I'd like to also point out that DD has only agreed to do all these because me and DP will not be too far away as she wouldn't go if she knew we were still at home. She never needs us, but I think it's a comfort thing for her to know we're not far away if she needs us, and what with ex's behaviour as it is anyway, I want to make DD as comfortable with the situation as she can.

So when I told DD that we booked the room, I asked her how she felt. She said she was pleased. She does love her dad, but I think it's more the idea of him being her dad as she doesn't really know anything about him. When he does visit, DD always says to me that he never talks to her properly or do anything fun with her, which use to upset her, but she's use to it now. But she said to me today something along the lines of "well least I make the effort to go see my dad even if he doesn't make the effort to see me". And then she began to cry. I told her that it's ok for her to be upset and I want her to be honest with me with her feelings (she always has).

I should maybe also point out two years ago, around Christmas, a lot of shit went down. It ended up with DD emailing ex that if he didn't improve or change his ways, she would want to stop contact altogether. I know realistically she wouldn't do that, she's young and despite all his shit, she loves him because he's her daddy.

I have given up moaning at him, making him call her/email her/visit her. In fact, I haven't spoken to him properly other than the odd "hello" when he turns up in probably a year. When he visits, he never speaks to me, nor DD for that matter. I don't understand why he bothers tbh. But since I've stopped pestering him, he just doesn't do anything now. I hate also that me taking DD to them gives him an easy break, and I don't think he deserves it at all, but I do it for her, and his family, who have been great, and like I said before, I don't want them to suffer because of him. But DD does recognise how much his sister and parents do for her compared to him. She also loves DP as if he was her father. They are very close and I think that has helped her tremendously as well. Least she has a father figure in her life, and a good one at that! I just want to make things easier for her I guess. I wish I knew a family who were in a similar situation to her so she had someone to relate to. I mean when I grew up, my dad wasn't around which DD knows and sometimes she asks about it.

I'm just finding it really hard and frustrating. I wish he would just either make the effort with her or just leave her alone altogether, you know

Sorry that was long!

BTW the holiday I mentioned is in August, and we had thought it would be a good idea for DD to spend some time with them on her own before this happened, as she is nervous about it, but looking forward to it too.

Last thing I want to add as well is that since the Christmas I mentioned, DD has been wetting herself. It started off just nights although she had been dry for a long time, and now it's every night and during the day too. She goes to an enuersis clinic but so far, we haven't made any progress. I blame the ex for this as well, as I know it stems from the stress that DD went through that situation that sparked it off. It just makes me so angry and so sad all at the same time.

has anything happened when you've not been around with XH's family to upset her/is there anything going on in school to compound this?

I don't think your dd wants to go on holiday and I think you should honestly ask her if she would prefer not to go and in fact if she actually wants to see her dad again.

davidtennantsmistress not that I know of. DD is very shy around them all. When they come down, she gets nervous before they arrive but soon warms up within the first hour. But like it was ex's mum's birthday at the weekend, so I rang her and asked DD to say happy birthday. Went to voicemail so DD left a message saying happy birthday, but she did seem to not want to do it as she had been upset before I had mentioned this. As for school, I'm not sure. DD has always been a popular kid in her class, and often had children arguing over who DD should play with. But I've noticed in the last year, she isn't getting invited to parties as much as she use to be. For example, one of the girls in her class has a party this weekend which DD wasn't invited to but her two best friends were. I found this out through the best friends parents, as they had asked if DD was going, but wasn't sure whether to discuss this with DD or not. I sometimes worry if it's partly because of me, as I'm not particularly social with the parents of her class, except for a few of the parents whose children DD often goes to visit. Maybe just me being paranoid, but I have been wondering it for a while.

lookingfoxy when I've asked her about it, she seems quite excited about it, but like I've said, she wants me and DP to be nearby, so we're staying somewhere a few miles out from where they'll be, as me and DP would quite like a week away just the two of us, and it makes DD feel more secure and comfortable with it. I have asked her about seeing her dad, and she says she does want to see him. But she is very aware of the fact that he does little for her and doesn't make any effort for him. She said to me a while ago that she knows he loves her, and isn't acting this way because he doesn't love her. I wish in some ways DD decided to stop seeing him, I think it would be so much better for her, but I can't make that decision for her.

A couple of years ago, before the Christmas situation, DD had wanted to start calling DP dad. She is a smart kid, and had said she wouldn't call DP dad around ex as she didn't want ex feeling weird about it. But she soon stopped doing it. I'm not sure why, but I never really brought it up with her.

I feel she is very much in love with the idea of ex being her father and her having a relationship with him, because everyone she knows has their parents still together, so I feel it's kind of being implanted into her that she should be in touch with her dad and that she should love him. I've told her she has every right to be angry and upset with him, but she's not been angry at him, just really upset.

Sorry I'm posting essays again.

If she is wetting herself during the day, has she had an accident at school that could lead to her changed behaviour & that of her peers?

Why is she so nervous around her dad & his family? I know she doesn't see them much, but it sounds like she knows at least his sister & parents well...

Tbh, I wouldn't let her to on holiday with them. She is very nervous around them, wants you close etc. For some reason I think she is looking for you to give her an out wrt the holiday!

I wouldn't let her go on holiday with them

differentnameforthis I don't think it has been noticed. When she wets herself during the day, it'll only be a little, so her underwear will be damp but it won't be obviously or go through to her trousers. Sometimes it can be worse, so maybe. Her teacher is aware of the situation and has been good, and has allowed DD to be able to use the toilet when she needs to go. We're going to try a different method soon to hopefully help her.

She feels better around his sister and parents because they make such an effort with her. They cuddle her lots and play with her when they come round. I think ex doesn't know how to be with her possibly. But I dunno if that's just making an excuse for him.

I'll speak to her again tonight when she comes home and ask her about it. I do mention it to her every so often, just to remind her and see how she feels, but when she does talk about it, she says she is looking forward to it but as I've said, she does keep saying that she wants me nearby.

But for example, when we were first discussing taking DD up near them at the beginning of the summer so she can spend a weekend with them, I spoke to ex's dad about it. We had seen a Travelodge room that was £19 which would have been ideal, but by the time I got to speak to him properly about it, the room was gone. I told him this and said that it's gone, and we couldn't afford to pay anything more than that at the moment. He suggested meeting half way and letting DD go off with him, instead of me and DP staying nearby. When I told DD about this, she wasn't happy about it. She didn't want to do it.

I mean as long as she tells me she is happy to do it if we're nearby, then I'll carry on doing it. But then I don't know if that's a good idea or not, as like you say, maybe she doesn't really want to, but feels if we're nearby than that's a bit better. But then she does have fun with them when she does see them, once she's warmed up, so I'm not entirely sure really.

Is she saying she wants to because she thinks she should, perhaps she would feel guilty otherwise?

Hows her relationship with your dp?
Do you generally put a positive slant on these visits, or is there anxiety coming from you and dp?

lookingfoxy possibly. She gets on really well with DP. They're very close. DP works in London during the week, so we only really see him at the weekend, although he tries to come down once or twice during the week if he can. DD always asks when he's back, and misses him as much as I do. Once I've finished uni, he is going to change jobs so he can be here more permanently. Before they come, I don't think we act too weirdly about it. I usually say to DD about the fun she'll have, and they always work out what they will do so DD knows beforehand.

Also, about the holiday. I wasn't happy about it at first. When I spoke to ex's sister about it, it made me feel a bit better as I know her and her DP are going. Plus being local as well, it puts my mind at ease. It's the longest DD will be away from me, which also worries me a little. Times when she has been at ex's parents for a weekend and we've been staying nearby, DD has had a good time, and often gets upset when they have to leave or she has to leave.

Had a talk with DD.

I asked her how she felt about them, and she said she likes them and that she does enjoy seeing them. I asked about why she gets nervous and she said she doesn't know. I asked her if she gets nervous when ex's sister and her DP come down and she said no. I asked why, she said because she knows that they'll do lots of fun things together. They sometimes come down on their own to see DD. I asked how she would feel if just ex's parents came. She said she would be ok, because again, ex's dad in particular, they fuss over her. So it's just seeing her dad that makes her nervous. She said this is because he doesn't talk to her properly or do anything fun, whereas the others ask her about school, and her friends, and her life in general. I asked what if ex's sister and parents just came on their own, and she said she wouldn't like it because then ex wouldn't get to see her, despite her feeling nervous about seeing him.

I asked if she would prefer not to go to their house, but she said she enjoys going there. I said to her in a few years there will come a point where me and DP will have to stop staying nearby, and this really upset her. She said she doesn't want that day to ever happen. I said to her she never needs us when we're there, but she said that's because they keep her busy by going out and doing things, but when she's not doing anything, she misses me. The odd time I get a phone call from her. I said to her about the holiday and how it's a week, and she said she would want us to all meet up during it.

I talked to her about when I was a little and how I saw my dad as little as she sees hers. I said that in time, she will find it easier, and not find it as difficult. I wasn't too bothered about seeing my dad when I was little because I understood he couldn't be bothered to see me really. If things carry on, I'm sure DD will get to the same point I am. However, I broke up with ex when DD was 8 months old, and she's is 8 years old now. I would have thought she would have been use to it by now, and not be so upset. So I don't understand that.

Also, I said to DD that I wanted to make sure she didn't do it out of feeling guilty. She said there were two reasons she wants to see them, 1) she likes to see them and 2) she doesn't want to upset them if she didn't. I told her she doesn't need to worry about feeling guilty, as it's her life and her choice. I've always tried to encourage DD to make her own choices.

We ended the conversation by talking about DP. I asked him how she felt about him. She said she loves him like he was her dad, and said she wishes DP was her dad. She said she wants to start calling him dad when we get married, but I told her she doesn't have to wait til then. She became quite thoughtful at this point.

She's now playing the Wii as I don't want her to be too upset, although I've told her she needs to talk to me about her feelings as it's not a good idea to bottle things up (I learnt that the hard way).

I'm not sure what to do though. I don't know whether to speak to our doctor and maybe have someone speak to her properly? Maybe speaking to someone she doesn't know will let her open up more and talk about things properly? I'm not sure.

That's good that it doesn't seem to have been noticed!

But I do find it odd that she is so worried about seeing him. She seems very relaxed with the rest of his family, which is great! But it has been this way for 8yrs, so like you said, you'd think she would be used to the status quo with her dad!

A couple of years ago, before the Christmas situation, DD had wanted to start calling DP dad. She is a smart kid, and had said she wouldn't call DP dad around ex as she didn't want ex feeling weird about it. But she soon stopped doing it. I'm not sure why, but I never really brought it up with her

I think this needs to be expanded on. Is she worried she will call your dp 'dad' in the presence of her dad? Why did it stop so suddenly? Do you think her dad said something to her after she mentioned your dp as 'dad' in conversation?

'she doesn't want to upset them if she didn't'

Thats what I was kind of getting at. She feels guilty about them, even though they keep her really busy, she fundamentally misses you.
Maybe a week is too long for her, perhaps day visits would be better?

I'm going to throw in a thought not to muddy the waters but something you said brought back a memory for me of when I was about the same age as your DD. I had a big falling out with some girls at school - I wouldn't say bullying more like the usual ebb and flow of friends at that age but there as a period where I felt a bit set apart from some of the girls I'd previously been close to before I had a chance to make different friends. I remember once it came to a head at school and I was crying. The teacher spoke to me and I didn't want to blame the girls - I sort of knew this would make it more difficult at school - so I came up with this long story about my parents divorce, and not seeing my dad and how tough it was. TBH this occassionally made me a bit sad but wasnt the biggest issue for me at the time, but it did cover up the situation for me and avoid a confrontation with the other girls.

I only tell you that story to suggest you take a check point on the school vs the Dad issues. If you've been separated a long time, it may be there are also issues at school that are at the root of her upset and she sees the "Dad" situation as a easy way to cover this. May be worth chatting to the teacher about changes in friendships or behaviour - if nothing else but to rule it out.

Thanks for your messages.

differentnameforthis at the time she had said to me she wouldn't call DP 'dad' in front of ex. She's always been very smart and I think she even realised then that it would be weird for ex if he knew DD called DP 'dad'. I can't remember why exactly it stopped. Possibly ex had said something, but I know DD was always careful not to say it in front of him. Though this could possibly have been the factor to make it stop, though she doesn't see ex enough for it to have been a big issue. DP at the time was very happy for DD to call him 'dad' and he wasn't phased at all when it stopped. Recently, it has made me wonder if she feels she can't call DP 'dad' until me and DP are married and so he is officially her step-dad, iyswim.

lookingfoxy I understand what you mean. It is difficult because she does contradict herself when she talks about them. She says she likes spending time with them, but she gets nervous round her dad, and as you pointed out, she doesn't want them to feel bad. I wonder if she means she likes spending time with sister and parents but not ex. DD has asked if she can stay at ex's sister's house the weekend we take her up rather than at ex's parents, so it is definitely something about ex she doesn't like. Yet when I mentioned ex not coming, she got very upset at the idea of not seeing him. But maybe you're right about just sticking to days. I feel bad for her being nervous around him and would want to make things comfortable for her, even if that meant like you say keeping it to just day visits, but then I'd feel bad for saying no to a week when she keeps saying she's very excited about it.

seoraemaeul thanks for that suggestion. DD had said her friends have been arguing. From what I have gathered, it's between two of her friends but it's causing problems between them all. She is still friends with her two best friends as she still goes around these houses, and one of two friends who have been arguing we see at church, and there doesn't seem to be any problems between them, if anything it's trying to keep them separate and quiet during service! However, I will speak to her teacher about this, and perhaps DD's best friends' parents as well to see if they have noticed anything different. As you say least then I'll know whether it's a problem or something that can be ruled out.

I've spoken to DD over the past couple of days. I have told her to think about the holiday and whether she would prefer to stay with me and DP and then meet up with the others during the day. She's had a think about it and said she would prefer to do this, although obviously she has plenty of time to think about it.

I also spoke with DD's best friend's mum who said that the best friend had also commented on the arguments at school. She had said it sounds like both DD and best friend are not involved, but it's a couple of the girls that they are friends with who keep fighting and so it's affecting their playtime. I told her DD got quite upset at the weekend and I wondered if it was partly to do with that, but she said her DD has not been upset over it, so maybe DD is just sensitive about the subject, or it's a mixture of things. But I'm pleased to know I have someone to discuss these things with. I'm also going to mention to one of the girl's mums who's involved in the arguement, to see if she is aware of it and if she knows what's happening.

I would say let her go on the holiday if she herself is happy to do so. And certainly keep her in contact with her dad's sister and parents. She seems to get on well with them and children can't have too many people to care about them.
Her anxiety at the moment could be just a phase she is going through, perhaps made worse by the fallings out at school.
I wouldn't worry too much about the wetting herself. She might simply have a weak bladder that will improve with time. Perhaps you could teach her pelvic floor exercises.

Hi Jangly. The holiday is not for a while, so I will mention it to DD every so often to see how her feelings are and assess it nearer the time. DD has said she would like to stay at ex's sister's house in June, which I would be happy with. Mentioned this to her and she was happy to do it to, but ex's parents aren't happy with it, and feel a bit upset with it, as they think she should stay with them so she can get use to them. I don't think it's so much DD getting use to them but ex, so not sure what to do with that, except wait til nearer the time and ask DD again what she would prefer to do. But then I'm also worried, that they'll make DD feel guilty, which if they do, I'll go mad.