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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Domestic abuse and helping my sister.

28 replies

DooinMeCleanin · 20/03/2011 23:41

My sister never really talks to anyone about anything, but we had been vaguely aware that she was having relationship troubles after she went to CAB about getting her own house and leaving BIL (this was about a year ago) but she never really told us why, just that they had now patched things up.

Last night BIL went out drinking until gone 1am. My sister has just an em c section with her fourth baby two weeks ago, so he really shouldn't have left her that long on her own imo.

She forgot to feed the rabbit and had gone to bed.

Apparently he dragged her out of bed screaming and swearing at her about the rabbit, telling her she had to get up and feed the rabbit or leave the house. As anyone would do she shouted back at him and told him he was a fucking arsehole and needed to get himself to bed and sobered up.

He then rang my mum who didn't answer. He was ringing my mum to come and get my sister out of the house because she was a danger to the children Hmm. Which would be why he was happy to leave her alone with them all night while he got pissed.

When my mum didn't answer he phoned the police and made a complaint against my sister and then rang SS and left a message for them stating he believed my sister was a daner to her own children and he wanted her away from them.

The police turned up. They couldn't interview him because he was too pissed. He wouldn't leave the house with my sister alone with the children, so the police rang his parents. His Dad had to stay the night with my sister who is painfully shy and would ahve hated anyone being in her house.

My Dad has rang the police this morning who have said they have to take his complaint seriously even though they know my sister has done nothing wrong and he was drunk. They told my Dad if he starts again we need to get my sister to ring them and make a complaint about him, but she won't.

She also now appears to have no phone. My mum has been really worried about her all day because we haven't been able to get in touch with her. It's not like my sister at all not ring us after something like this.

She is worried because she is a registered CM and was about to start minding when she had recovered from her op. She thinks now that the police have been involved and he has rang SS she won't be able to mind, even if she leaves him?

Also what rights does she have? They have joint morgate. What advise can I give her?

I want to murder him and bury him in a shallow grave, but the police have told my father this would not be accpetable.

OP posts:
Original poster
DooinMeCleanin · 20/03/2011 23:45

Oh yes he is sober now, hasn't apologiesd, hasn't retracted his complaint and has tried to throw her out again tonight.

OP posts:
Original poster
DooinMeCleanin · 21/03/2011 00:14

.

OP posts:
Morloth · 21/03/2011 03:58

Your sister is the only one with the power to change things, all you and your family can do really is offer her and her kids somewhere safe and secure to stay if she does decide to get out.

He assaulted her, is she going to press charges for that?

Original poster
DooinMeCleanin · 21/03/2011 07:48

No she won't press charges. The police have asked her to, but she refused. They told my Dad their hands are tied unless she makes a complaint against him because there are no marks on her. If he had marked her, they would have arrested him regardless of what she wanted.

They want to charge him and have said if he changes his statement once he is sober they will charge him wasting police time and making a false statement, but they can't get him out of the house unless she phones them. They are interviewing him again today.

She won't press charges because she is worried about her job. Even if she doesn't do childminding she has always worked with children and is worried about the effect of SS visiting her.

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mumonthenet · 21/03/2011 08:50

Poor thing, she can't think clearly is my guess.

Imho, morloth is right, you/your family need to offer her and the dc's a safe and secure place to stay for a few weeks. While she recovers from her c section? Hopefully she will then start to see things more clearly and realise that leaving the violent abuser will do more for her chances of a job in the future than staying and hoping no-one notices how dangerous he is!

The best thing she can do is to get away from him. If she stays, you can be sure the SS will become involved sooner rather than later - because next time he will hurt somebody, or the neighbours will call the police, or the kids will say something at school. This event is already on the Police records. The SS (when/if they get involved) will want to see that she took action to protect herself and the children from him.

If she has already been to CAB a year ago, she already knows she's in an abusive marriage, but he will have destroyed her confidence and her ability to react. Awful for you all.

cestlavielife · 21/03/2011 14:41

she needs to rpess charges
SS can support her to get him out of ehr life.

if she doesnt get SS on her side then yes she risks her job.

she should get SS on her side , get rid of him - then she will be fine to Cm again.

if she does nothing - SS will have been informed anyway - it is automatic.
SS ahve to follow up.

if she is sitll with him she risks her job at the least.

tell her - SS can help her and be on her side.

Original poster
DooinMeCleanin · 21/03/2011 17:11

My other sister took her to CAB today who are going to help her make plans to leave, but it might take upto 3 weeks before they can help her get a house.

She has said she will leave him at least temporarily . We are hoping once she is rid of him she will realise how much easier her life is and she won't go back.

She is going to talk to him tonight and ask him to stay at his parents during the week and then he can come home on a weekend and spend time with the children while she and the baby stay with my parents or me.

I have told her we can squeeze them all in here if he won't do this and she wants to get out before the three weeks. It will be a squeeze but we will manage.

We still don't know what will happen with the police. They are coming back to talk to her H tonight. All we know is they must take his allegations seriously because there are small children involved Sad. Although they do believe my sister has done nothing wrong.

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mumonthenet · 21/03/2011 22:39

That is good news, though it'll be a tough time ahead. She's so lucky to have such a supportive family. Hopefully the Police really do see through his pantomime and will let him know he's in their sights now.

ValiumSingleton · 21/03/2011 23:46

You can't make her see sense. At least the police have it on record that he called the police to report her for not feeding the rabbit when she was drunk.

She is probably afraid that if she leaves him, he'll ending up winning custody of the children after successfuly portraying her as mad, or successfully MAKIng HER mad. Tell her to talk to the gp and to be absolutely honest about how bad the situation is. If she won't press charges, she needs to have it on record that she is sane and in an abusive situation.

you're very good to take her in. That counts for so much I know because when i was in a similar situation I wasn't able to tell people because i knew if I did, they'd say 'leave him' (of course) but I felt like I'd nowhere to go and no money when I got there. So sort out the practicalities with her. Good luck. Must be awful to see your sister go through this. I will always feel guilty for putting my mum through this. (left 4 yrs ago_

ValiumSingleton · 21/03/2011 23:56

ps, the second time I left my x for a break (I needed that break because living with him was hell) I didn't really think it was forever, so I know where your sister is coming from.

A few things happened though, a friend knew that he'd attacked me and I was so ashamed, so although your sister may not thank you, I advise you to get another member of your family or a friend to blow the facade out of the water (not YOU because yours is the house she will hopefully go to).

If it's any help, I only stayed with my family because they had sorted out a lot of things for me. I was too confused and insecure to even fill out a form at that point. So spoon feed your sister if she leaves him on a 'break' so that she suddenly feels lighter and not crushed and overwhelmed like when she is with him.

Original poster
DooinMeCleanin · 22/03/2011 00:17

Thanks Valium. That's really helpful.

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ValiumSingleton · 22/03/2011 19:10

dooin, maybe you could email your sister this thread?

this one

It's called what made you finally leave? Her story about not feeding the rabbit equals any of these!!

Original poster
DooinMeCleanin · 23/03/2011 08:30

Oh for the love of god. She is now thinking of staying with the tosser. It's her fault he phoned the police and she deservd it Hmm I suppose she also thinks she deserved to be swore at and screamed at in front of her children and newborn baby Hmm

I got more of the story last night. Apparently she had hold of the baby when he tried to drag her out bed so she kicked out at him to get him off her, ergo she assualted him and not the other way around so she is a danger to the children.

If this was anyone but my sister I'd laugh it's that fucking ridiculous.

She should also stop going to my mums on a Friday afternoon when she should be at home doing the housework. Friday is the only day she leaves the house Angry. This came from my 3 year old nephew who told my mum "I love you Nana and I don't want to not see you anymore" When quizzed he revealed he had heard Daddy be "very naughty" to Mummy and say she shouldn't let them go to see us anymore.

He is trying to alienate her from everyone who will protect her and she is too blind see it Sad and my wonderful, innocent little nieces and nephews are hearing this Sad.

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mrspnut · 23/03/2011 08:50

I'd advise her to call Women's aid, he is abusing her and her children with the way that he is choosing to behave.

They will support her to make decisions and also tell her most emphatically that it is not her fault at all.

mummytime · 23/03/2011 09:07

She is not going to be able to be a CM whilst she is living with an abuser. I think SS will quickly see the reality even though your sister doesn't. However SS have been known to threaten to take away kids unless someone who is abused leaves an abuser. BTW he ia also emotionally at least abusing the kids (although the baby incident sounds worse).

Do get her to talk to Women's aid.

But psychologically he has already done a lot of damage which is why she is blaming herself. Is there anything you can see that would make her take action, for herself or her children?

Original poster
DooinMeCleanin · 23/03/2011 12:19

I don't know what we can do to make her see what is happening. She talks to my youngest sister more than anyone else, who has told her that her children can hear all of this and will be laying in their beds listening to it all and feeling exactly the same as we did when my mum and dad were stuck in abusive relationship. I can't think of anything more powerful than that to say to her. She told my sister it's different because my Dad was properly violent, her DH has 'only' hit her once Sad

My youngest sister today told me he managed to get the baby off her that night and held his foot against her CS scar to stop her getting the baby back Sad Angry

I just wish she could see what we do. I want to go around and confront him but I daren't incase it pushes her further away from us.

He is apparently more controlling and manipulative than he is violent. And everytime she stands up to him and shouts back or loses her temper because of all his needling he tells her she doesn't deserve to have kids because she is dangerous.

My mum is going to talk to her again and try and get her to ring WA for a chat, but she was supposed to be going to see an organisation called Talking Families yesterday, but didn't go because he didn't want her to.

I also want to get hold of her and shake her for being so bloody blind. She is a wonderful mother who adores her children and she is so gentle and kind. She deserves so much better than this. I think that is the reason he targetted her, because of how gentle she is. We are all a bit loud and bolshy and she grew up to be the peacekeeper who would do anything you asked of her just to please you. There isn't a violent or 'dangerous' bone in her body.

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cestlavielife · 23/03/2011 12:37

call womens aid yourself for advice - there may also be local org/agency.

if SS have already been referred by police you may also want to speak to SS yourself and point out your family is there ready to support your sis and your nieces/nephews.

it is a fine line but he sounds really dangerous.

you dont want to be complicit in not protecting the children here - frankly i dont at all like the idea of him being left in the house with the other children. listen to the nephew at only 3 ....

maybe you and mum need to agree to go round there and take her out of the situation - literally go there, pack her suitcases and take her and children away - then let him go thru courts for access, now it is recorded by police.

at least talk to your mum and other sis about planning this - you may need to act sooner rather than later.

cestlavielife · 23/03/2011 12:39

in fact do it this friday. why wait.

get your sister and her children. out of there -tell her it is for the weekend and wait to see his reaction - you will know quite soon what he is like...

Original poster
DooinMeCleanin · 23/03/2011 12:57

No, I will give him one thing he adores his children and would never do anything to deliberatly harm them. I would say he is a good father but he is not. A good father would not treat the mother of his children this way.

I suppose he either does not realise or does not care that he is harming his children emotionally letting them listen to this. And grabbing the baby while he was that pissed and angry is reckless at best Angry

I also don't think he would dare come to my house if my sister came here. He knows he doesn't scare me, we have had a run in in the past when they first got together. I thought he had changed. Although we have never really spent much time together or talked since then. I guess I know why now.

I will talk to my mum again, although as an abused woman herself I don't believe she can see just how wrong this is. I will ring WA myself tonight once my DC are in bed.

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ValiumSingleton · 23/03/2011 17:51

That is so awful dooinmecleanin'.

I doubt that your sister is too blind to see what he's doing. I'd guess that she doesn't think she can successfully fight her 'case' against him. She probably feels so ground down that she can never put her side forward, it is unreasonable for her to have a side!

It's an anaesthetised way of living. You use up all your energy just trying to get through the next 48 hours. You slip into that gear, and you can't plan anything. You can't decide anything. You can't see clearly. All you can do is get through the next 48 hours with no drama, or as little drama as possible.

Leaving a man like your sister's husband would cause a whole lot of drama. If he's angry now, leaving him is going to make him a million times angrier. And even if she's with you and your mum, she is going to feel the intensity of his hatred boring through her soul. She is going to feel like she is under the microscope and he is staring down at her, hating her, judging her, mocking her, controlling her.

So as bad as it is now with him (and she knows it's bad I can almost guarantee you that) she knows that it will be worse when she leaves.

She is going to need to feel strong before she leaves. Even if you and your mum flank her, she is going to feel the weight of his hatred and anger pressing down on her and it will crush her. it's hard to bear even when it can't hurt you any longer.

These men condition their girlfriends to feel the pain from their perspective. Talking to people online I've seen that at first, women who leave these fuckers always cry for them when they leave them, and feel bad for them because they know how martyred they will feel about their wife leaving - daring to leave!

So where does that leave you?

All I can tell you is that I finally finally felt like I could find the energy to start again after I'd been 'trapped' in ireland for two weeks because ryanair wouldnt let me fly as the children were (one after the other) covered in chicken pox! During that time, it wasn't that I saw things with my x any differently, it was that I realised that there were different Worlds in different places and I began to believe, began to be able to visualise starting again.

ValiumSingleton · 23/03/2011 17:58

when i say her 'case' I mean her right to leave him. He will never acknowledge that she has any right to end the relationship.

SenSationsMad · 23/03/2011 19:13

I was on a safeguarding children course recently and all cases of domestic violence in now automatically sent to SS, where there are children in the house. Children in a home where there is domestic violence are subjected to emotional abuse ( even if its never directly at them).

I'm guessing this would be the case in all LAs.

Hope she's okay.

mumonthenet · 23/03/2011 19:18

dooin, what happened when the police went round to talk to him the other night? Just curious.

I am so sorry to hear that she thinks she's going to stay with him. All the advice on here is good but as Valium says, she's not going to believe in a better life unless she gets a taste of one.

And she won't get that because he's made her believe various things...it's partly her fault/she would never manage on her own/no one would ever believe her/he would get custody of the children...etc...all lies and abuse but she will believe it.

If you can't pack her bags and drag her out of there can you persuade her to come to you for a little "holiday"...with the children?

ValiumSingleton · 23/03/2011 20:34

Yes SensationsMad, that's true about children suffering EA even if their mother thinks that they aren't seeing it or aren't seeing the worst of it.

My dd doesn't remember things exactly as they happened, but oddly she 'remembers' things that didn't happen. such as her dad hitting me on the head with the remote control. that never happened but she 'remembers' it.

It does make me wonder about what she was hearing and feeling when she heard her dad call me names and push and shove me. the worst of the aggression wasn't in front of her, but it looks like she filled in the gaps anyway. The things she didn't see, she just seemed to be up in her bedroom visualising equally bad things.

Original poster
DooinMeCleanin · 23/03/2011 20:39

The Police haven't been yet. They are a bit useless. They definitely said they had to take it seriously and would be going back.

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