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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

feel manipulated again!

26 replies

andthenthereweretwo · 18/03/2011 20:36

Ds stays with ex Fri-Sat evening. He has already asked if he could keep ds another night to return Sunday however I said no as we have plans Sunday morning. Have now just received text saying that his nephews are staying with him on Sat and can ds stay. I was tempted to say no as original plan however now feel that I would be a real witch to say so as he woud love to have time with his cousins and would prob be upset if he had to leave and come home (I would be the bad guy here!. I feel manipulated by ex and really unsure what would be best. Doubt my decisions greatly after years of bullying and controlling by ex, should really be able to make this decision. Part of me thinks I should do whats best for my son but part of me wants to make a stand. Your advice would be appreciated.

OP posts:
mamas12 · 18/03/2011 21:48

Well I feel you may be right re: manipulation, but, weigh up the sunday morning thing against the cousins thing and think of your sone.

You know what your son would like so that's the decision.

It may be galling to think that the ex thinks he has 'won' but it's your son that has won whatever you decide not ex.

itisnotgoingwelltoday · 18/03/2011 21:51

I have nothing useful to say except I know exactly where you're coming from.

My XH and I are supposed to be doing the split parent thing as amicably as possible.

But he's much more intelligent than me and can run rings round me and I end up feeling shafted quite often.

I liken it to doing battle with a steamroller - sometimes it's just easier to lie down and let it go over the top of you.

squeakytoy · 18/03/2011 21:52

What is the point of making a stand. Its not your sons fault that his parents are no longer living together. You get the majority of custody, and its good that your son has a dad who wants him to stay as much as possible.

2rebecca · 18/03/2011 22:40

Have you really got plans Sunday evening and how often do the cousins visit? If the answer is "nothing important/ that my son will miss" and "only occasionally as they live 4 hours away" I'd let your son stay, if the answers are "I had arranged something special" and "they just live round the corner and are often around" then I'd stick with your original plan.
My ex and I get on well because we don't muck each other around with last minute changes. If he wanted his sibs to visit with their kids he could have given you more notice as I doubt he'd be happy if you tried to cancel him seeing his son because your sister and kids were coming round at the last minute.

2rebecca · 18/03/2011 22:41

Sorry Sunday morning not evening.

ike1 · 18/03/2011 22:54

can you ask your son on the phone what he would like to do?

garlicbutter · 18/03/2011 23:59

Another vote for talking to DS and making your choice on that basis alone. You can always stress to X that it's the reason, if it makes you feel better.

garlicbutter · 19/03/2011 00:00

Oops, meant to add - how about calling the cousins' parents and establishing more direct communication wrt cousin get-togethers?

Original poster
andthenthereweretwo · 19/03/2011 09:18

I completely get the point of doing what is right for my son but he does see his cousins regularly. Ex could have given more notice, arranged this get together (if there is one) on a weekend that he has full access. He does this every weekend and tries to push the agreed boundaries. I have never atempted to try and change the agreement and even if I did he would not be flexible. If he stays at his dads tonight he will be up to all hours and will be totally exhausted which will really affect our plans tomorrow, he will be tired, grumpy and emotional. I agree that my ds is lucky that his father wants to have contact with him but he is not always the best influence and sometimes ends up doing more harm than good.

OP posts:
wellwisher · 19/03/2011 09:28

What are your plans for tomorrow?

It is annoying but try to go with what your son wants to do - he is the most important person. Does it really matter if he's "up till all hours" having a fun sleepover with his cousins? It's not a school night!

Any chance of you organising a last-minute night out for yourself this evening? That way you and DS can be "tired, grumpy and emotional" together tomorrow ;)

Original poster
andthenthereweretwo · 19/03/2011 09:40

wellwisher thanks v much for your suggestion but we have a longstanding arrangement to meet friends at 10am for a day out. I dont mean to come across as being a witch, every time ex asks me I usually say yes to extra night on Sat (he has him Thurs-Sat tea time every week and til Sun 1pm last week) but this time I am going to say no. I am v grateful for all your comments and suggestions :)

OP posts:
Hereforlife · 19/03/2011 10:02

I still think your son should have a say.

I read thread after thread about dead beat dads and here's one who wants to see more of his children.

Has to ask permission and is told no.

Can't really win can they?

warthog · 19/03/2011 10:05

i think you're right to say no as this time it doesn't fit in with your plans. and that's how you should view it - as a request - but if you have something pre-arranged, then that takes precedent.

Original poster
andthenthereweretwo · 19/03/2011 12:30

hereforlife I have already agreed that it is good for my son to see his dad regularly and he sees him each week without fail and an extra night every month and much more during the holidays. He is a manipulative bully who has been abusive towards me and tried to control my life for many years. He is not a dead beat dad but he is also not a great dad as he uses our son as a pawn in a battle to control me. My son is 5 years old and it is my job to look after his best interests and wellbeing as this isnt always his fathers top priority. Thank you for comment however I have to disagree.

OP posts:
2rebecca · 20/03/2011 09:42

I think you did the right thing. I don't think 5 year olds should be choosing which parent they spend weekends with, unless there are abuse issues. They are too young to feel they have to choose 1 parent over another. The parents should agree between them what is happening on the weekends and explain to the child what is happening.
If the cousins visit regularly and as hou have got something planned I think telling your ex you want to stick with the previous arrangement is reasonable.
Next time the cousins come he can plan it better so they come on the Saturday or you agree he is staying longer in advance.

waterrat · 20/03/2011 09:57

OP - I am with you on this one, I think people are not seeing the truth here, yes children should have a say, but at the age of 5, you know what is best for him and are trying to be reasonable - but this is not acceptable. As you say, there can't be constant pushing of the rules, or there will be no way you can plan a consistent life for your child.

Stay strong - it sounds as though you are wise and know what is going on here.

waterrat · 20/03/2011 09:58

HEre for life - that's a ridiculous comment - 'he can't win'. Clear custody arrangements exist for a reason - for the sake of the child and so that parents know what is going on and can organise their lives. This father has access - that is not an issue. You can't simply change the rules - and that is not an anti- father issue. His mother is due to have him back and has plans

Hereforlife · 20/03/2011 10:05

Well waterrat I think childcare should be equal therefore residency should be 50-50 so the dad would have plenty of time with his son. And not need to ask permission for extra days.

waterrat · 20/03/2011 10:22

Well, that might be what you think is best - but lots of couples do things differently - it isn't always seen as best for the child that they go back and forth all the time. Perhaps this dad doesn't want his kid half the time? Lots dont - lots of couples agree that the child should have one main home.

Of course dads should be allowed to have flexibility where they need it (as should mums) - but the reality is that any parent is going to have to plan ahead and make arrangements so it's not reasonable to say that a dad should be allowed to just simply say they want to keep the child at their home, at any time. That isn't good for children - they need stability.

Also the sad truth is that parents who are separated make concrete and clear arrangements to stop constant arguing take place. that is better for the child and better for the parents.

LittleMissHissyFit · 20/03/2011 11:05

OK, kill with kindness, say, No, because you have plans. Say that with more notice of the mega-sleepover you could have planned your Sunday accordingly, but it's too late to change.

If Ex gives more notice, of course you can consider it. Breezily reply, next time, we'll sort it.

As you say, DS has regular contact with his cousins so not really a once in a blue moon, have to move heaven and earth to make it happen kind of scenario.

Abusive men often have this nicey nicey excuse/reason to make you do what they want you to do. On the face of it, it's designed to make you look like the bad guy, so you give in.

Be firm. Your DS has to understand that plans are plans and if there had been more notice, and there were no plans in place, then it could have happened. Push it back on to his dad, by saying that next time daddy needs to be more organised and tell you sooner.

Hugs, I know you feel like shit about this, but given your past, your instincts are probably right.

missmehalia · 20/03/2011 11:19

Presumably it's the late notice that's annoyed you?

You have 2 choices -

  1. You say no, we must stick to the original arrangement and DS will see his counsins another time (please arrange it, ex)

or

  1. Say, OK, for DS's social/family benefit and to show goodwill, I will make an exception for a last-minute arrangement. However, if this happens again, I'll say no because late notice means I/we can't make other plans and you are not entitled to muck me or him about like this (consistency creates security for DS). And then you need to be prepared to stick to whatever you've said, otherwise it really is the ex taking the p*ss.

Whatever you decide, put DS's requirements at the centre of it, no matter how much the ex may have irritated you.

missmehalia · 20/03/2011 11:22

And, OP, if you unexpectedly get some time without DS, then capitalise on it and do something for yourself.

Children are fab, but good self care means an even greater parent.

NameChange1234 · 20/03/2011 14:53

Was it last night that he wanted DS for the extra night? Did he stay?

Original poster
andthenthereweretwo · 20/03/2011 20:22

Thanks all for your suggestions and support. I told ex that it didnt suit and picked him up as planned. Ds was neither here nor there about it all, wasnt distressed or upset about coming home, was happy to see me. Cue nasty text messages from ex. I was able to get him to bed at a sensible time last night and we had a lovely day today with friends. :) Unfortunately this isnt the end of his game playing but will deal with each event when they occur.

OP posts:
LittleMissHissyFit · 20/03/2011 23:23

Hmm, rather think my suspicion of this being about control may be right then.

Trust your instinct love.