Feeling bit sad - issues with my parents

[bellabelly]

Don't really know what to do about my rubbish relationship with mum and dad so thought I'd ask for any advice/experience!

My parents have been here this last week (going home tomorrow morning) - not staying at our house (which is a bit small to put them up) but staying nearby in a rented cottage. This lunchtime had a stupid argument with my mother which was something and nothing really but which ended with me apologising and lots of tears from her and a few from me.

THing is, every bloody time I see them - not often as they live about 7 hours drive away - the same thing happens towards the end of the stay. I'll either argue with dad or mum, t'll probably end in tears and I am left feeling guilty, ungrateful and generally shit. How can I break this cycle? I can be polite and "nice" for a few days but after day 3 or 4, I just feel like I've had enough and can't seem to bite my tongue. And then we have a stupid row.

I think one fundamental problem is that they are very different from me, we don't really have anything much in common and we have very different views about the world - politics, parenting, you name it. I also find it frustrating that before they visit, they talk a lt about how excited they are to spend time with my dc but when they are here, they seem pretty reluctant to get off their arses do much except watch tv and read the paper. They are in their 60s, so not hugely elderly. Anyway, the row today kicked off because I suggested to mum that they could take my eldest 2 kids off for lunch/afternoon out and she seemed really reluctant to do so, and then we bickered which turned into a row basically. Dad told me that I speak harshly to her and have made her cry before and I just felt dreadful about that so went back to apologise. Thing is, life is quite hard for me at the mo (4 kids under 4) and I suppose I wish they were helping a bit more while they are here BUT mainly I just really wish I had a good relationship with my mum and dad. For years now it has felt like we don't even like each other!

Since having kids, I have been thinking more about how they used to be when I was growing up and tbh I can't understand some of the thngs they did - smacking, nasty things they said, etc. But then they also did some lovely things for me too, so I have very confused feelings about it all.

Phew that was long! And a bit garbled! Anyone got any ideas about how I can forge a bettre relationship with my parents? I'd be so sad to thikthathis isas good as it's going to be.

Oh dear, I didn't want to read and run but I don't really have any suggestions other than lowering your expectations. My friend has a similar relationship with her parents and she finds herself endlessly disappointed. If you expect them to do nothing for you or your children you'll be more pleased when they do actually help out. Hope this helps

just a quick one.....me and my mum get on really really well but live 200 miles apart and every time we spend time together it ends like yours does..I have wondered for years why we end up rowing/arguing/me being narky.... and finally realised its the fact that we have to squeeze all our real life into one concentrated visit whether it two days or a week, i think if we saw eachother more we could have a 'normal' day to day relationship like other families and be more relaxed instead of having all this built up resentment and frustation of them not spending time with kids etc or just being my mum who pops round for tea if you know what i mean,i have just learnt to deal with it not expect anything and if they do make extra effort on visits its a bonus but i take comfort in the fact that my kids will be a credit to me and me only as i do it all myself!

Can sympathise. My mother would bend over backwards for me, but when I was growing up she would say horrible things to me and smack me, even when I was older.

I grew up to be very bolshy, self esteem intact which I think is nothing short of miraculous!

We live very far apart which means we get along really well but when we meet it's just like you describe - harmonious for a couple of days then !snap! ... and there's a big argument. She cries and says something like 'I can never do anything right!' I feel dreadful afterwards and apologise but she usually won't.

Like you, we don't have much in common and I find it very hard to have a conversation beyond the very superficial.

My only advice is to just keep your mouth shut and walk away when there is trouble brewing. Bloody hard and I haven't mastered it myself yet.

Also, I find that I tend to put up barriers as soon as she comes, so my default speech/behaviour is defensive and on guard. Not difficult to pick up on this and it creates tension. So that's something I have to work on.

Good luck x

Do you feel any degree of FOG - fear, obligation, guilt when it comes to your parents?.

My parents and to an extent my inlaws are more disinterested than anything else. They like the idea of being grandparents and rabbit on about it to their friends but don't want any of the responsibility that goes with the role.

It is interesting to me to note that you're asking for ideas about how you can forge a better relationship with them. Whilst admireable, this process has to be two way, both your parents therefore need to work on rebuilding the relationship as well. I am wondering whether they can or actually even want to becuase they at heart may think they are doing nothing wrong.

Who started the row and did your mother apologise?. Or did you solely apologise with her not apologising?.

You have something that they do not have - insight. You won't end up like they are because you would not dream of acting like they did towards you all.

Do you have siblings; if so how do they get along these days with these people?. Looking back too were you all treated very differently as children with roles to live up to?. That often happens within emotionally unhealthy families.

Thanks for all the replies so far - this sallvey helpful and it's good to know I'm not the only one who seems to have this sort of relationship with parents. Will write more later tonight as super busy now with teatime etc. They are popping in for a drink later so we'll see how that goes... I am determined to be adult about everything!

Spatchcock, your post really chimes with me - I feel defensive etc before they've even arrived which probably doesn't help!

AttilatheMeerkat - no siblings so nobody to compare notes with. I know it sounds dreadful but as they get older I worry about being the only child with nobody else to share the responsibility of making ure they are ok in their old age. I don't think I could have either one of them live here with us (even if the house were big enough which it isn't). Then i think what kind of daughter does that make me? So yes, guilt definitely, obligation up to a point - no fear any more although I was scared of my dad's temper when younger and also my mum's to a lesser extent. I honestly think they don't remember half teh stuff that happened though - I sort of attempted a conversation about it on the back of a previous argument (dad thought I should be "firmer" with my boys, ie smack them) and he didn't deny that he'd been harsh at times but he looked quite bemused and changed the topic.

vicki2010 - I find myself wishing that they lived nearer so we could do the whole 30 mins visit 2 or 3 times a week rather than every visit going on for days on end and like you say, squeezing so much in. Ho hum.

Lots for me to think about here - will post more later, thank you.

Oh, attila - hard to say who "started" the row. I would say I was probably being a bit bolshy - made a comment about how lunch with teh GPs would be nice for my boys because they haven't seen much of them for last 3 days (boys have been at nursery) - mum waited until I was out of room then quite loudly mutteres/stage whispered "oh shut up". Perhaps I should have walked away and ignored it but I was riled and of course went back in to do the whole "did you say something?" thing. She told me she'd heard me say that she "coudn't be bothered" - NOT what i said but interestingly, it was what I was thinking.

Anyway, the row went from there. Mum did apologise later, after I'd said sorry to her.

Can you arrange shorter visits? If the rows always erupt after 3/4 days, how about arranging 2 day visits with maybe a day apart enroute either side?

Can you arrange and agree some activities for them and the kids in advance, so they know what to expect and to prepare in advance, rather than having it sprung on them?

Shorter visits would be great but they live such a long way (7 hours drive) that they always want to come for a week or so.

That is a good idea about trying to fix some activties in advance. Not sure if they'll go for it - they are hard to pin down to definite arrangements! - but is def worth a try.

Brilliant idea to organise the time in advance and agree the schedule with them

Then you can build in "grandparents take grandchildren out to the park/ for lunch/ to feed the ducks etc or grandparents read bedtime story /grandparents babysit / grandparents visit stately home on their own one day etc etc

And if they don't want to do it they can say so.

It is not unusual to have nothing much in common with your parents and you don't have to like them or even see them ever if you don't want to.

Your mother sounds a bit childish tbh - saying "oh shut up" under your breath isn't a very adult thing to do. And she obviously realises you think she can't be bothered.

I have a difficult relationship with my parents too (in their late 60s). I'm also an only child. Like yours my dad had a shitty temper and used to lash out verbally as well as physically.

You on the other hand sound like an adult, aware of what is going on and trying to deal with it. Don't underestimate the effect of growing up with parents who can't properly moderate their own feelings and actions. Also don't forget that they are half of the relationship and if they can't be bothered/can't see the need to behave better then there is only so much you can do.

As an only I am very familiar with the feeling of guilt and fear of being the only one around for them when they get old. But your parents are NOT your responsibility. I dealt with it by developing a very superficial relationship with them (they live abroad which makes it easier and there are no GCs as yet). I'm not saying that is the right way for you.

What really helped me is a couple of years of therapy during which I learnt to distinguish between their issues and my own, learnt that I wasn't responsible for them, and didn't exist to make them happy. Parents who make their children scared of them when they are little risk damaging the relationship forever, I wouldn't feel guilty about not wanting them to live with you.

They actually do sound quite like my parents - a bit vague and hard to pin down to definitive arrangements. High chance they are both quite self-absorbed (hence your dad's bemusement at your bringing up his harsh behaviour - cannot see things from another person's point of view. I'm not at all saying they are bad people, just limited (like most of us !) and at their age unlikely to change. The best thing you can do is not let them rile you. I used to get into rows with my mother and get very upset, until I learnt that nothing changes as a result. Now I keep my distance emotionally. Actually she doensn't seem to have noticed.

Sorry, rather long post ! Good luck.

I am in exactly your situation, except we live in different countries so they have to stay (usually at least a week) and always in my house.

Things used to ALWAYS come to a head the day before they left, like clockwork, I would snap, my mum would do the massive victim act and have no understanding why I was riled, I would (back down) apologise and we would sort of makeup but they would leave under a fairly black cloud. I also had that thing of my dad coming to tell me how awful I'd made my mum feel.

What always brought me to breaking point was the constant criticism from my mum about every single tiny aspect of my parenting, you name it, it was wrong. It was like having supernanny there doing her observation and rolling her eyes at everything.

BUT, I am saying all this in the past tense because it has improved a lot, mainly I think for two reasons:

1, the kids are older, therefore a lot easier to deal with, talk to, do activities with etc

2,I have got a lot more 'proactive' with her. My mum and dad do that thing with just sitting around reading the paper, so now instead of seething in the background I say things like : tomorrow I want to do a big shop/ironing session etc, could you take the kids to the park in the afternoon.
At the start of the visit I always ask if there's something they'd particularly like to do (ie visits, shopping etc.) while they're here and we kind of schedule that together (This has the added bonus of making the time pass a bit faster, if there is something planned for each day more or less)

I would have written your exact post 4/5 years ago (my DSs are now 6 and 9) when I was frazzled (and I've only got two) and expecting help from my parents and not really getting any - mum's classic phrases have included "I don't DO children after 7 pm" (we live in Italy and everything goes on later in the evening) and "Oh a dirty nappy - I'll just hand him over to you"). It really is so much better now, and we are all much happier.
I also like that 'talking through the kids' technique, as in 'DS1 would love granny to read him a book'

sorry this got so long, I do empathise with your situation

FattyArbuckel - the thing that scares me about your last sentence is that I'd be devastated if my own dcs ever felt like that about me. And also how easily I think I'd cope with never seeing my own again. On a day to day basis I think it would have no impact on my life whatsoever.

I'm starting to wonder if all these feelings run a lot deeper than I realised. Recently I told DH about an incident that happened when I was 15 or so, when my father hit me hard in teh face. I was a bit drunk when I was telling DH about it and I started crying and crying and simply could not stop. All these feelings I thought I'd buried or dealt with or something.

Well right now of course you would feel devastated. But once they are adults maybe not. In any case, if they love you they will want to see you once they are grown up. But they may have nothing in common with you! And hopefully you would have the sensitivity to support them as adults in the way they wanted to be supported, something your parents are not doing for you.

Confusing your relationship with your dc with the ralationship with your parents is not helpful imo.

Have you had any counselling about your childhood?

Bella

I was also going to ask if you've had counselling re your childhood. I think it is something worthy of consideration now because your recent visit by your parents along with now being a parent yourself is now bringing back feelings of a childhood that you thought you had buried. By the way BACP have a list of counsellors and they won't charge the earth.

I cannot recall the author unfortunately but you may want to read a book entitled "Children of the self absorbed". Toxic Parents written by Susan Forward is yet another.

Both your parents seem very volatile and high maintenance albeit in different ways. They are both dysfunctional and people from dysfunctional families end up playing roles. Emotionally healthy parents would not for instance have hit you the way you were hit when you were 15. What did your mother do then.

It seems that throughout your childhood she deferred to your dad, she stood by and let all the nastiness happen to you; she was a bystander in this and acted out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. She failed you utterly as well.

"Confusing your relationship with your dc with the ralationship with your parents is not helpful imo".
I would certainly agree with that above comment made by FattyArbuckel. These people are more than happy too to pass on their crap to the next generation i.e your children. Think carefully about what these two bring into your children's lives. You cannot stand them for good reason.

Thank you all or your posts - this has all really got me thinking. Their visit tonight passed off ok and we have parted on good terms (superficially at least) and I am slightly wondering what on earth went wrong earlier.

Sparksagainstsky, you say "Now I keep my distance emotionally" - I think that's what I've been trying to do for ages but today's row (and all the previous ones) show me that I'm not really managing that. Somehow they manage to push all my buttons and I revert to being a stroppy teenager or a hurt child, despite being almost 40 years old!

I've never had counselling about my childhood but I did have marriage counselling for a while a few years ago. One session was spent talking about our parents and their relationships and that was very interesting. Weirdly that was the most upsetting session of all because the counsellor sort of made me see things differently - I'd always focused on my terrible rlationship with dad (when I was a teen) and the counsellor sort of gently pointed out that my mother in fact had sort of engineered/encouraged some of that hostility between us. I'd never seen that before and it was like a penny suddenly dropped. I now think that in a weird way it tok some heat off her if dad and I were at war! That sounds really melodramatic when I see it written down but it did feel like war sometimes.

My mum would often tell me that she was waiting until I left home and then she would be leaving dad. I don't know what I was supposed to do with that info. But then she woud side with dad and tell me that I was awful. All v confusing. One of my earliest memories was seeing him hit her when I was about 3 or 4 yrs old. I think she was scared of him too.

Well, just a quick update for anyone who is still reading - they are back home now and mum texted earlier to say what a nice time they had, how lovely to see us, etc. (This is normal after a visit, even when there's been a horrible atmosphere). Which is great in one way - ie, all's forgiven and forgotten - but in another way just makes me feel like we are all in denial about how things really were and also makes me see that things won't ever really change between us. I just feel a bit empty about it all and I really envy people who seem to have a spontaneous, relaxed and loving relationship with their folks!

It is common to feel empty like this if your parents weren't very good parents to you

Is there another way you can meet up halfway for a couple of days, rather than at yours for a whole week? I do know people who seem to make that work.

I do know what you mean about not being hands on. My mother would say that she is very good with her GC, but she just really sits here and talks with them. She would cuddle them when they were babies, but didn't ever change nappies.

I have no problem with this, just with her perception that she is a great GM. She's OK. She's only had an overnight with one of them maybe a couple of times. that is not her memory of that. She hasn't had my brothers' DC overnight at all, I don't think. I have discussed this with my closest DB and he is of the same opinion as me. It has caused all of us relationship problems in the past, exacerbated by how nasty my father has been. He really is at the bottom of everything.

I hope you manage to sort something out, OP. I think organising something to do in advance of their coming, like spooktrain, sounds like very sound advice.