Seriously considering divorce - please help

[Irishchic]

It is my dh's birthday today. He has been gone since lunchtime to the races with his dad and brothers leaving me to look after our young children. When he arrives home around 8 or 9, he will then head out again to meet a group of guys he meets every thursday night for drinks. He is also being taken out by his mum dad brothers and me and my SIL tomorrow night. Then on sat, he is spending sat afternoon, evening and night with his thursday night pint friends, when they watch the Ireland England Rugby match and then go for dinner and drinks, dont exoect he will be home before 1 or 2am.

Our marriage has been in crisis on and off for a few years now. Drinking binges have done some damage, but he has largely curbed this, but still is very selfish about his social life, and never ever compromises on what he does.

I asked if he would consider not going out tonight and just stay in with me and watch a movie or have a drink and chat, becuase I feel that we need to start building closeness again, in the hope of saving our marriage and regaining our love.

He got really irritable about it. Said that I was so unreasonable to try and stop him from his weekly routine and said that he didnt want to stay in and watch a film, and that if he did stay in "what would we do?" and "what is the point?"

I replied that our marriage was in trouble, that I felt very unhappy, very taken for granted, and that even when he was at home, he acted like I wasnt there, and wasnt very nice to me, that we were like strangers living in the same house, and that I didnt want this, I wanted us to be friends and hopefully lovers again.

He dismissed this too, and more or less said that there was no point, that we were not in a good place and that there was no point in trying to change anything.

I am so upset and exhausted. I have done the counselling route, read the self help books, have tried so so hard to be reasonable about his social life and need to be out and about all the time, and feel i get nothing back in return, just huge resentment whenever I try and get my needs met in any way.

This has been going on for years now really, and I am really starting to feel now that divorce is the only option for us becuase I cannot live the rest of my life like this, with someone who does not compromise, seems to resent me and views me as this negative influence on his life.

I dearly love my children and would hate to disrupt their world, and I know that divorce would throw up a whole fresh set of problems but I am so desperately unhappy I feel I am coming to the end of my tether.

He is not going to change is he?

I cannot spend the rest of my life like this. I never expected perfection in my marriage, but I did think that my dh would at least want to spend some of his time with me, and would always treat me with respect and kindness. This is not the case at all.

Any advice would be appreciated.

I don't like this bloke

he sounds tremendously self-centred and self-entitled

I am not surprised that you don't like him much either

it certainly seems he doesn't respect you

this blackmail thing he does is appalling.."if you don't be nice about me going out tonight, I will be shitty to you and spoil your night out"

very childish, very manipulative

I wouldn't give houseroom to a selfish twat like this...you would be better off on your own

at least the loneliness you might feel would be legitimate

I think tonight was a bad time to make an issue of this: you were almost setting him up to fail.

I realise it's like this all the time for you, but really St Patricks Night & his birthday you want him to stay in?!

Irishchic is your H a golden boy who is the apple of his family'e eye?

Irish it sounds as though this is not about his social life it's about you living without love respect or affection. This man is being absolutely horrible to you. He doesn't want to spend time with you, he isn't respecting you - there is no kindness from him.

Do you love him at all? He sounds as though he is giving you nothing and making you deeply unhappy - yet you are making all this effort to try to rebuild things. You are doing the right thing in leaving I think.

You deserve to be loved and appreciated - and it's better for your children to see you build your own new happiness than see you stay in this situation.

Thank you Waterrat. Sometimes you need to hear it from someone else, becuase he makes me feel like such a horrible unreasonable person.

He arrived in tonight from the races at 8.30, told me he was going out, and proceeded to tell me why I was being so unreasonable and making such a "big deal" about him going out. The thing is, I NEVER ask him to miss his thursday night, and even this time, didnt demand it but just frankly and reasonable told him what I would like to do, what I needed from him. The counsellor told us we had to be honest with each other about our needs, and this is what I was doing.

But, as like all the other times when I tell him how I really feel, and what I would like from him, he gets angry, resentful, accuses me of being controlling and making a big deal out of it all.

I am just damned tired of being made to feel bad, of being the butt of his abrasive tongue, sarcasm and continual hostility.

He pointed out tonight that he DID do something nice for me recently, he took me and our dd's to the nearest city to pick up his new car, we had lunch and a bit of a browse. It was nice, it did make me please, but it was a month ago, and he feels that should be enough to prove his efforts in the relationship.

Mumfun, he is not the golden boy really, he is a high achiever and an alpha male type, but he can be pretty unpleasant and sarcastic too to his mum and dad if they say the wrong thing, he is not just like this to me.

Do I love him? Quite honestly I cannot say that i do, it is hard to love someone when they continually treat you badly. He is the father of my children, he is not a bad person per se, he does not gamble, womanise, take drugs...this is the best I can say about him these days.

PeterAndre - I do agree. Manipulative, childish, self centred, these are all accurate descriptions.

It is highly unlikely i guess that he will ever change, does any one know any guy who has stopped being a selfish tool when he finally realises his wife is about to divorce him?

if he does, by then it will be too little, and too late.

So sorry to hear your situation Irishchic, I feel similarly lonely with my DH right now :(. He sounds pretty set in his ways, and certainly not being very nice to you right now. What do you think he would say if he knew you were considering divorce?

No, but I know several women who have stayed with their selfish tools and bitterly regreted, wondering what might have been.

Don't be that woman Irishchic.

islandgirl - He would be shocked to the core if he thought I was seriously considering divorce. Last year when we were going through another bad patch I told him that I felt I had a right to be happy, or, at least, a right not to be unhappy. Then we had counselling, things improved, we moved on, I think he was annoyed as he felt I had held that over him as a sort of threat. If I said it to him now, I think he will know that I am really considering it, and I think his first reaction will be anger, puzzlement, disbelief, frustration and a lot of self pity.

Perfumedlife - I dont want to be. I cannot belive that I am really considering this and have decided to consult a specialist in family law to get an idea of my entitlement, before I even tell him I am thinking of this.

Definitely consult a family law solicitor first.

But really, he's told you and shown you over and over that his needs come before yours, yours are not legitimate, and he will use anger and sarcasm and hostility as weapons to stop you from inconveniencing his life with your needs.

He doesn't see you as a real person, with rights and needs like his. You're a domestic appliance. He probably will be really surprised if you actually divorce him, because that's a Real Person thing to do.

Sorry it's come to this, Irish.

Irish, it sounds as though the two of you are on completely different levels - you want to talk, to resolve this, to build a completely different fairer more equal and loving relationship - but he simply isn't engaging with you on that level.

You are being an adult - and he is being a teenager - you are not treated as a loved partner, but someone who is nagging him , spoiling his fun. The saddest thing you describe is him sitting in a different room to you - again, where is the loving partnership here? It is like a grumpy teen not wanting to be near their mum.

Your post made me think - because my dad is very like this and my parents split up for similar reasons. My dads social circle has what I see as a streak of mysoginism running through it - though he hates it when I say that to him. Women are the nags, the drones, the fly in the ointment, the ones who you go back to but enjoy your time in the pub with the boys. It's not evil or intentionally unkind really, but it's a certain culture - and I grew up thinking that was normal.

I thought men found family life boring - that family life, home life, enjoying your children was for women....then as I hit my late 20's early 30s I saw that my male friends loved going home and seeing their kids and were actually happy not to have to be with the single lads down the pub. they respected their partners as best friends.

It was an eye opener - I saw that it is not normal to see your wife as somehow your enemy, the one with the face like a wet fish waiting at home for you! I realised in time not to repeat the mistake...

ANyway - It sounds as though there is a sexist attitude here - not just to you but to relationships in general, or surely he would believe he should change.

50 - 100 years ago, you would have had to put up with this - this complete lack of love and friendship - him deciding the terms of the relationship - and being angry with you for challenging them.

But you dont have to now. Not all men are like this, his behaviour is unacceptable - and this relationship sounds really really damaging to you.

He is not a victorian man with whiskers, who can say 'oh but I took you out the other month' be happy now I'm off with the boys. - there needs to be love and friendship here, you should be partners taking on the world together with mutual respect and a genunine pleasure in each others company. He should see you as a friend, someone he wants to be with, not someone he ticks boxes with and then goes off to enjoy life elsewhere.

sorry - that was a bit of a feminist rant! But I do think that you are entitled to be happy and free of this constant battle with him - many women around the world are not free to get divorced and have to put up with this substandard treatment all their lives.

If he won't change you do not have to live like this.

Irish you are doing the right thing to find out your legal entitlements. He does sound very selfish and he does seem to subscribe to that almost misogynist attitude that Waterrat describes.

Im sorry you are being treated like this.

I hope you feel able to go back to your counsellor for support or be able to confide in someone else at this time. Be careful though - choose someone totally on your side who you can trust and who would cope well with any divorce or any reconciliation.

thank you Waterrat, that is very interesting about your parents, and certainly resonates with me, and my dh's social life. We live in a rural area, small town northern ireland, the pub is where all the men go, and women of course, but it is a real macho culture.
tbh I wouldnt have an issue with him going for pints with his mates if he appreciated it, and appreciated me. He has a great social life, and gets to go away on golf trip and lads weekends around 3 times a year, but yet behave as if he is so hard done by.
I am so over trying to get him to want to pay me any attention at this stage, and stop saying horrible hurtful things to me when he is stressed
Life is too short for this.

He went out in the end last night like I knw he would. He did not get back in till 4am, as he drank the night away with one of his brothers. I found him asleep in the kitchen at 5am.

I told him today I could not face the dinner out tonight with his brothers and parents, I was just too exhausted from last night, and from all arguments lately, and just couldnt put on the act tonight.

When they heard I was not coming, they (parents) decided to cancel the meal, as they assumed dh would want to stay in with me, (he had told them i WAS SICK.) His brother, (the same one who drank with him till 4am last night) just rang him to ask him out for another drink tonight. dH has said no thanks, but not out of any thought for me, only because he is so hungover he cannot get off the sofa. He missed work today in the morning (which he can get away with as he is the boss) but he just couldnt get out of bed till lunchtime.

I realise I'm going against the grain of the comments here, but to me he sounds quite depressed about the state of your relationship ("What's the point?"). Is it possible that he can't handle talking about his emotions, he feels vulnerable and inadequate and is covering it up with machismo and trying to escape whenever possible?

It's a big ask, but do you feel you could think back to what you enjoyed doing together in the past? Then you can take the pressure off him: you want to do something together not because you need to work at saving your marriage, but just because it'd be fun...

LostinAfrica - I have considered that he may be depressed and have asked him to consider at least talking to his gp.

For my part, the efforts that I have put in over the last 4 or 5 years to make the marriage work have taken their toll on my own mental health, and two months ago I started on a course of anti depressants which have really helped me to feel stronger and see things in perspective.

I have tried to restart us going out as a couple, in the hope that we can get back to intimacy and sex, but each time I made the effort, he picked an argument or ignored me once we got home, and I found this very disheartening. He also said that "just because you have taken a few pill you cant just expect everything between us to be all sunshine and flowers!"
I found that extremely hurtful, as I was striving to make things better between us, and felt it was just resented, and thrown back in my face.

Ii guess I feel that I have run out of love, goodwill, hope for this relationship. Everyones tolerance level is different, but I really am starting to feel that I have reached the end of mine.

I know you say you have tried to restart going out as a couple and have tried making an effort with him but perhaps it seems like a big jump in attitude for him. Do you ask about his nights out have gone? ask how his day has been ect? act interested in what he has to say?

Me and my DH went through a rough patch but thankfuly counselling helped alot. We were bearly speaking, he is a world of war craft addict and we are in often in seperate rooms in the evenings. I asked one night for him to explain the game to me and he did, cant say i was realy that interested but he sounded so excited talking about it bless him and seemed to appriciate me showing an interest and in turn started showing an interest in my day.

I think its a visious circle and once it can be broken it can be another cycle but a good cycle.

I hope things work out for you