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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What is worse PA/EA

26 replies

VeryConfusedIndeed · 10/03/2011 06:17

Can somebody clarify which they think is worse and more damaging to a marriage ...
A one night stand, or maybe a short lived physical affair, with no real emotional connection. Or an EA with no physical contact but that involved detailed explicit intimacies and sharing of photos over a year.

OP posts:
withagoat · 10/03/2011 06:38

I didn't realise affairs had acronyms.

Both bad. I don't believe EAs aren't always sexual

PeterAndreForPM · 10/03/2011 07:29

has your partner had an emotional affair ?

it's not about which is "worse", they are both bad for a relationship that was planned as being monogamous

what do you want to hear ?

VeryConfusedIndeed · 10/03/2011 07:34

Yes he's had an EA but says it isn't the same as no actual contact took place. All online or texts.

OP posts:
PeterAndreForPM · 10/03/2011 07:35

well, he doesn't have the right to tell you how to feel about his affair

that is entirely your perogative

is he telling you that you are being unreasonable and that you must move on ?

thumbwitch · 10/03/2011 07:37

oh, I thought this was going to be about physical or emotional abuse, not affairs.

It depends on how you feel about it, really. I have a friend who believes an emotional affair is worse than a physical, because physical may be "only sex" - whereas an emotional affair is more a meeting of hearts and minds and can be much more damaging to the previous relationship.

I don't know - I think either would be very hard to come back from but I don't think you can say "oh it's just an emotional affair, it's not like I slept with her/him or anything" and expect that to be ok - it's not.

withagoat · 10/03/2011 08:50

he must have SEEN her/him

talleyrand · 10/03/2011 10:24

I agree with withagoat I don't beleive in a purely 'emotional' affair.
And neither do i believe in purely physical ones either. While a purely physical one-night-stand is possbible, I think any extended intimacy has a sexual and emotional component to it.

how it described by the perp probably reflects how it was discovered.

  • if the emotional side is discovered first, and can't be denied (eg emails, texts) the defence will be 'but we didn't have sex'
  • if the physical side is discovered first, and can't be denied (condoms in pocket etc) the defence will be 'but it was purely physical, we never talked'
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 10/03/2011 10:32

Is this really what you want to focus on OP? No-one can tell you which type of affair you should feel worse about, because you feel what you feel.

It sounds as though your partner is however telling you that you should be somehow grateful that he didn't have sex with another woman and is trying to minimise his behaviour. Emotional infidelity can be as much, if not more damaging, to relationships.

However, if he has been deceiving you about a secret relationship for over a year, I suspect that this is the issue that's causing most pain. Don't let him minimise this or tell you how you should be feeling.

hairylights · 10/03/2011 10:34

Depends on the individual couple within the marriage.

Mamaz0n · 10/03/2011 10:38

My opinion is that an affair is a breach of trust. whether it is sexual or emotional.

I don't think I could get past either tbh.

trust is vital for a healthy relationship. He will never be able to have a female freind as you will always suspect that it is more. you will always question him and then yourself.

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 10/03/2011 10:43

It's possible that his OW doesn't actually exist. I mean, 'she' may consist of a set of posed photographs and a bunch of resting actors/bored housewives/otherwise unemployable types sending 'Oh yeah do me big boy!' texts for something less than the minimum wage.

Mamaz0n · 10/03/2011 10:46

Ahh SGB, you sell yourself too low Wink

atswimtwolengths · 10/03/2011 13:36

Or it's possible he has had a very intense emotional relationship with another woman, where they share everything they have done and thought throughout the day, so that there's nothing left to give when they get home. The sexual side may be important and incredibly erotic, but actually secondary to their friendship.

VeryConfusedIndeed · 10/03/2011 14:43

Thank you all for your opinions.
It is somebody he knew from school so yes a real person. He found her on FR.
He didn't tell me I found evidence after finding out the pc password.
He says it's nothing, no actual contact, no talk of love. Just flirting and fun.
Feel numb part of me thinks he is right, can't be a proper affair without sex. But I feel hurt at all these fantasies he discussed with her. Things were fine in that department with us I thought. We have been married 10 years and have 1 child.

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 10/03/2011 14:50

So if it's FR, there will be a record of all the messages in the inbox and outbox, won't there, unless he's deleted them?

How would he feel if you'd done the same? Would he say "Shucks, it's okay, it was just flirting and fun.."

It certainly can be a proper affair without sex. It sounds like an emotional affair.

I'm sure everything was fine with your sex life! There doesn't have to be anything wrong with your marriage for this to have happened. There was something wrong with your H though, because he had a secret relationship with someone and shared intimacies and fantasies with someone else. For goodness sake, don't start thinking that you or your marriage were somehow lacking for this to have happened. It sounds as though your H saw the opportunity for a fantasy adventure and took it - and it's as simple as that.

thumbwitch · 10/03/2011 14:52

When you say somebody he knew from school, how well? I mean, was she his first love, a girlfriend, someone he fancied but she was out of his league, or someone who fancied him but he was out of her league?
Was he actually looking for her on FR? If so, why?

I think there is a hidden agenda here and I think you are very right to be hurt by it. He is WRONG. Sex is only one part of an affair - what he is doing is just as damaging and potentially could get worse.

You need to know more about her, I think.

GoingGrey42 · 10/03/2011 15:05

I found out my DH was having EA via text with woman he worked with, 20years younger than him.
Biggest mistake on his part....it was our teenage son who found out and told me!!!
He made out it was nothing, just someone to talk to as he couldn't talk to me anymore and that was the end of the subject as far as he was concerned. I was distraught and so was my son.
I later found pics on his phone she had sent him. I hit the roof, bluetoothed them to my phone, and STILL he said nothing was going on.
Why am I still here?? We have 2 sons 15 and 6 that's why. Must be mad!

PeterAndreForPM · 10/03/2011 17:53

GG42...it isn't obligaory to stay with a cheating twat just because you have children

the most satisfactory way for you to sort this out, is for him to leave

and no, you are not mad, but you are being very foolish to brush this under the carpet

what does your 15 yo son think about his mother staying with a deceitful man like his father ?

I expect he is fully aware of how much a liar he is...let's hope he doesn't learn that this is the way to treat women, eh ?

PeterAndreForPM · 10/03/2011 17:53

obligatory

majorydoors · 10/03/2011 17:56

Both are but maybe the EA as you describe it, is more damaging - depends on further context, motivations dynamics of marraige.

VeryConfusedIndeed · 10/03/2011 18:11

No record of any messages on FR, all deleted. I found the evidence messages and photos on his email account.
She was an ex girlfriend when he was 16. Long time before I met him.

OP posts:
thumbwitch · 11/03/2011 08:53

ah. Next question - who dumped who?
Without wanting to frighten you any more, I'm asking because I know a lady whose H of 30-odd years suddenly found his first love on FR, and within months had left his wife and moved in with her. He'd apparently "never really got over her". Of course, wife was devastated. So - worth finding out the fine particulars so you can continue to assess the risk levels.

VeryConfusedIndeed · 11/03/2011 09:28

He dumped her from what I recall, but it was just your average teenage romance. She wasn't his first girlfriend but was his "first" - so they have that history :(

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 11/03/2011 13:29

The bad news is that affairs of any kind with old flames from our youth are the most dangerous kind and present the most significant threat to an existing relationship. If a person leaves his/her marriage for the old flame, unlike most relationships that start from infidelity, these relationships have a much better survival rate. Shirley Glass in her book Not Just Friends mentioned the research that backs this up and endorsed it from her 25 years of therapeutic practice.

I also tell you this not to frighten you, but to validate your feelings that this is certainly not as trivial as your H is making out. It is in fact, hugely threatening and serious.

The reason these affairs are so dangerous is because the old flame comes to represent lost youth and a time when responsibilities were fewer, when they were both more physically beautiful and when every day seemed like a wonderful opportunity, when anything seemed possible. All those feelings get mixed up and invested in the old flame, irrespective of their current lives and how they look/behave now.

Your H needs to understand all this and realise the trap he has fallen into. He also needs to work out why this happened and what it means. Why he had these yearnings now. It however doesn't mean that he was dissatisfied with your marriage or you at all. It might mean that he is dissatisfied with other aspects of life and therefore his yearning is for those things to change, or if that's not immediately possible, to escape for a short time.

If these communications were restricted to online activity or texts, your H might have perhaps under-estimated the danger, deluding himself that since he wasn't having sex and didn't intend to, this was just a bit of escapist fun.

But he needs to come out of that reverie and stop minimising both the danger of his actions and the impact it has had on you. He also needs to reverse this situation and imagine how he would feel if you had been doing this - that is true empathy.

You might be buckling under the pressure to stop feeling as bad as you do and even telling yourself that this is no big deal, he didn't have sex.

But what you're feeling is healthy and normal. In fact, you have a much better grip on this than your H. You know absolutely what the risk was and you are feeling this way because your safety and security has been threatened.

It might help to show your H this thread - and also buy Not Just Friends, because it explains this in great detail, with several references to online friendships and the secondary addiction to the instant fix the technology provides; the excitement when a message arrived in the inbox or when the text alert pinged.

VeryConfusedIndeed · 11/03/2011 16:26

I have ordered a copy of that book, but no point showing H this thread - he refuses to agree that this was an affair. Can you give me anymore information about the addiction thing you mentioned about when an email arrived. Think it really was like an addiction for him, one day last week he sent her 20 emails!!!

OP posts: