Married but living a totally single, celibate, emotionally separate life

[ostracized]

Hi
Have posted quite a lot about my problems with dh. Have had lots of problems over the years.... It used to be that we would have sex every 6 weeks roughly, and then possibly twice over a period of a few days but then nothing at all for the next 6 weeks... There would be no affection or cuddles or nice words in between. We don't sleep in the same bed as I normally end up sleeping in dds' room when one of them wakes up in the night. Plus I no longer want to sleep in the same bed as dh since it is soul destroying to lie next to someone who cannot be bothered to even put an arm over you, yet finds it very easy to be physically affectionate with our three kids.
We have had a couple of quite bad arguments over the past few months and things have now become totally detached. I no longer go to his bed to initiate sex (which is what used to happen, not that he wasn't willing when this happened) upon the odd occasion because I no longer want to be in a situation where sex roughly 10 times a year (or whatever having sex every six weeks works out at) is the glue that holds our relationship together. I would much rather be able to cuddle and say nice things on a regular basis - and kiss (he does not do kissing at all, only during sex). The other thing is that I find it impossible to talk to him about any of this because he becomes defensive/shouty very quickly and throws "state of house" back in my face (house untidy it is true).
So we are now at a stalemate (except I don't know if he thinks of it this way as we don't talk about it) whereby we are living together, looking after the kids (almost 5, almost 7 and 9 years old) - having an occasional laugh about the kids, occasionally talking about his work and my volunteering at school or what might be on TV, and that's it.

Should add that the thing I dislike about him the most is his short temper and propensity to be very scornful and negative about things. This means that there are lots of things that I don't bother talking about as I know what he is going to say / how he is going to react. Communication is not free and easy between us and I wonder whether in reality we have reached the end of the road and in a situation without kids we would separate and move on.
Next Friday I am going to relate by myself to find out what a counsellor thinks about all of this. The thing is that every time that I think that actually, we do have to separate, I feel physically sick thinking of having to do this to the kids and also be apart from them during the times that dh would have them.
So, do I concentrate on looking after my kids and the house better, my own social life / work (hope to get a job as a teaching assistant) and being as friendly as possible with dh (but not a couple as it were) and just accept that at 42 I will never have a romantic / sex life again :( ???? Dh is 12 years older than me and I think that his attitude is that he just wants to be with the kids.
I suppose the purpose of my post is to ask whether other people live in "relationships" like these which are functional? I would really like an open, equal, communicative and loving relationship with dh but I don't think it is possible.

This thread has made me really sad for you OP. Two quick points I wanted to pick up on.

1- if your relationship was like this at the beginning there would be no way you would've stayed right? You need to apply the same standards to your DH now - it doesn't matter if you have children together or not.

2- imagine if this was your DD. You'd be telling her the marriage is no good for her DC's and to get out. The more your children see this behaviour the more they sill think it's the 'norm'. As other people have said staying together for the children 9 times out of 10 does more damage than good.

Sorry. You're not going to like this. Your DH might not seem as bad to you as some of the other bastards on here but he is controlling you. Can u really say he loves you if he's happy to be in a house with you and not talk to you for 2 months? I hope you have a good councillor who helps you gather the strength to leave him.

Good luck x

Hey ostracized

Your post caught my attention because it parallels my relationship with my ex in a number of ways, although I respect that our relationships are different.

I just wanted to give you a 'brief' personal account of what happened to me to see how it sits with you.

My ex was very controlling, moody, punishing, basically wanted everything the way he wanted it and would be an arse if he didn't get his own way. My needs were largely disregarded and if I did get stroppy about something, his stroppiness would counter mine! He also turned every conversation about anything back to him and thought he was the most amazing man to have ever lived. He was what I called 'entitled'.

I had been in counselling for some time but could make little or no headway with my relationship. I seemed to have no sense of what was acceptable or unacceptable to me. I seemed to just put up with whatever was on the table - pretty much as if I had no rights to having any boundaries. My counsellor sensitively put it down to having a weak sense of self i.e. I was a people pleaser who's main aim was looking after other people and their needs and not tending to my own.

After many, many, many sessions I went from not being able to even think about separating (I have 2 small children) to having a small thought bubble which started to say that actually, maybe this situation wasn't right and perhaps I did have the right to be treated well and not like a second class citizen. It took many, many, many more sessions until I could start to contemplate splitting up (given that I felt so much guilt over the kids).

Eventually we went to couples counselling and it was there the lightbulb moment happened. We only had 3 sessions but it was enough to see that I was a second class citizen in his eyes. He did think I had no rights. He did treat me like shit and he was never going to change. In his world it was his way or the highway. I plucked up the courage to say I wanted a split but couldn't go through with it. However a few weeks later after a row we split.

The point of telling you this is that it takes as long as it takes. Whilst I understand what PAFPM is saying, it can take an awful long time for YOU to come to the same realisation. I think it's brilliant that you are seeing a counsellor and hopefully it will prove helpful. Whilst he or she won't tell you what to do they can help you to see why it is that you find yourself in this situation (for me inadequate parenting and abuse led to weak sense of self and pretty much no boundaries).

Nature will take it's course and there's no need to push it. It is in your consciousness that you are unhappy and it is likely to stay there until a resolution happens one way or the other. It may takes weeks, months, years but don't give up heart you will get there in the end - whatever the outcome.

The brilliant thing about counsellors (IMO) is that part of their job is to support you telling your story over and over and over and over. So unlike lay people who post on these sites they don't get frustrated and wish you would sort it out.

I wish you well

Sounds to me like you've been depressed for ages and you don't really love yourself much, which of course makes it much harder for others to love you.

He might be a complete tw*t and the best course might be to seperate, but first get yourself liking yourself again.

Why is the house a tip ?

when the house is messy it really bothers me constantly. it affects the way i behave and think. you could try to sort your house out and go back to sleeping in the same bed then see if anything changes. don't expect anything to change but if thats what he keeps going on about at least you can deal with that issue. if you do make a productive start on sorting the house out please post on here about it so i'll hopefully be motivated

In answer to your question in the title thread - yes, I think quite a lot of people live a bit like that, especially when years of bringing up children and other stuff have ground them down a bit. They are a bit bored and frustrated, but not enough to do anything radical, so they just chug along. Sometimes, I feel a bit like that.

BUT - the bit that I would find completely unacceptable, and I suspect many others would too, is your partner's unpleasant behaviour. I am not talking about moodiness or even being bad-tempered on occasion. That is normal.

But the sarcasm/scorn/put-downs as a consistent pattern of behaviour - no way. My partner occasionally goes through stages where he gets a bit negative or makes the odd sarcastic comment or doesn't stand up for me (usually linked with work stress/feeling insecure I think).

The last time it happened I let rip and told him that any more unkind comments/put downs or sarcasm and I would be seriously re-evaluating the relationship. He knows that I mean it and he has never done it since and in fact is now much more openly supportive of me.

I really think that counselling will help you here. In the long term, for you, I would imagine that it might be a case of either he shapes up, or he ships out. If he can't be bothered to modify his behaviour, then I think that ultimately you will have your answer. It is also disrespectful towards your children - at the very least he should be concerned about setting a good example towards them.

I'm not on anti-depressants PeterAndre but I do have an i-pod which I listen to when dh is around being super nice to kids but not to me!!!

I agree newbabymum that relationships have to be "judged" on the basis of the way one would personally like to live rather than the fact that one has children - it's just difficult to do! Also agree that not much love between us.
Thanks for your long message WADA - I'm glad you found the strength to leave - do you manage to co-parent well with your ex?
lilsmate - I do think I have a depressive/melancholic streak and that I need to "like myself" more... the thing about the messy house is that it is in some ways easier to leave it this way and use to explain dh's behaviour rather than tidy it all up and have him still behave in that way which would mean I would then not know what to do next - at least now I can think oh well, it will all be much better when the place is immaculate
youvegottabekiddingme - yes, the next few months are about seeing this counsellor, de-cluttering and seeing where that takes me as a first step - I agree that a messy house damages the energy somehow

thanks all for your kind words and good wishes :)

missed your message tadpoles - thank you - can I ask if you feel close and loving with your partner - or if maybe those feelings come in waves and at the bottom bit of the wave you feel the detachment that you mention you sometimes feel?

I haven't read the whole thread but my parents were like you for years. They had separate bedrooms for years, simply as we had a spare, and I recall begging my mum to leave my dad as a young teen as the atmosphere was awful. On the outside it looked fine, healthy, wealthy, holidays, no arguments - but they lived separate lives other than mealtimes and holidays. Yes my mum made a life for herself with her friends and we didn't have an unhappy childhood AT ALL, but it wasn't pleasant to live like that.

Her reasoning was she wanted me and my brother left home and settled, but in the end she didn't wait for this, but left when I was in my early 20s, my brother younger and still living at home.

This was all 18 years ago now and they get on famously, still apart, both live alone but both happy alone and drive one another mad together, but get on ok. Mum admits she should have moved out years before but in the 80s/90s it wasn't really the Done Thing in their circle....!

i think wada's advice sums it up best. It is arrogant and unhelpful to get frustrated with op because she does not instantly follow directions to leave her dh from people on an internet forum. As wada says she has to do that in her own good time. And if these people fully read original post from op,they would see that Op is NOT asking for advice, but asking is there anyone else out there in a similar situation to her.

I think that I never really had that romantic love, falling-head-over-heels feeling with my partner. Also, I never had that a really fancying feeling either. But having said that, I have never had those feelings combined with anyone! Perhaps I am a freak. I have been 'in love' but without really fancying and I have really fancied but not really 'been in love'.

What I have with my partner is a very close friendship, companionship and physical affection. We also get on very well and enjoy family life and bringing up children together. We do have a sex life but I find that, unless we are on holiday, it is quite difficult to be in the mood as family life and other stuff gets in the way. He is quite good now, though, at making an effort as he realises that, unless he does, I am not going to feel 'in the mood'.

I have had periods of time when I have felt that our relationship is more brother and sister (on my part) than lover-like and then I have questioned the relationship. But, I am now in a phase where I appreciate what I have. It isn't perfect but I value our joint lives together too much to chuck it all in on the off-chance that Mr Perfect (eg: fancy him madly, fall in love with him madly, get on with him, easy to live with etc etc) might just come along. In any case, even if I were ever to get into a new relationship, it would never have the bond of having brought up children together. For me, that is almost like cement (but not to the extent that I would put up with any sh**)

The thing is you can have all the fancying and in love stuff and someone can still be really difficult to live with.

I have had some counselling and it has really helped to clarify my feelings and also helped me to be more assertive. It really is worth a try, a good counsellor will help you find out what you really want.

I do feel your situation is quite different, though. For instance, even if you have decided that you no longer wish to have sex (and there are probably some very legitimate reasons for that to do with not being valued etc)that still does not give your partner the 'right' to be mean. If the house is messy, then he can help tidy it and/or pay for a cleaner surely? Seems that he is 'punishing'you but really you have a right to be treated with respect, even if the marriage is in difficulties.

The other thing I would add is that if my partner never initiated sex, there would never be any sex! I find that, once out of the habit, it is quite easy to live without it. Also, I do not think I could have a sexual relationship with a man who was not prepared to take the initiative. I need to know that he finds me sexually desirable otherwise I would not be interested, if that makes sense.

Thanks for the latest messages esme, missile and tadpoles.
Tadpoles, I think you are right and I quite often think about this - if it were just that dh and I were very used to each other but still got on well and were polite to each other, then there would be no question that that was "good enough" - it is the disrespect and lack of interest which is killing/has killed the relationship. I would have preferred it if dh had initiated sex - you are right about the feeling more attractive part... but not only that, also if he had been more openly affectionate and demonstrative giving hugs etc.... Thanks for your honest and thoughtful post, I really appreciate it.

WADA .

Youve just summed up my life at the moment .

One child aged 3.5

Its Very disconcerting .

Im gonna get help

Ostracized you asked how my ex and I were getting on with co-parenting. My answer is I'll let you know when he moves out! Our split is acrimonious and he is playing hardball. He is wanting everything on his terms because in his world I should be entitled to nothing as I haven't financially contributed since having the kids - charming eh! Still, as painful and frustrating as this is the one thing I have now is hope - hope that I will learn to honour my own boundaries, hope that through learning to listen to my inner self ( true self, inner child, gut or whatever you'd like to call it) I will never allow myself to get into a situation like this again and hope that one day I may find myself in a balanced and happy relationship which is based on an equal footing, respect and shared values. Had we not split I would have continued to be bullied, brow beaten and I'm sure in the end my spirit would have been snuffed out rather than it just been given a good bashing!

Spiderbabymum - you have my sympathy - good on you for looking for help. Start a thread and let us know how you get on.

gosh WADA that sounds really hard - I hope you have a lot of real life support and that he moves out soon! The house we live in belongs to dh and I can also imagine having a very hard time trying to sort out the logistics if we were to split. You sound calm and mentally strong though and your next partner will be very lucky to be with you!
Good luck spiderbabymum :)

Phew, I would say that if you have a chance to get out then do so. I do believe now that happier parents, happier children and they will adjust.
I have been with my husband 30 years I with the pace of life and situations that happened, and the children it all went very fast. I knew I was lonely I knew I was very unhappy but I got on with it worked as long and hard as I could & gave as much time to the children as I could.
I was blinded as it is how people like my husband cleverly disguise that they are controlling you and taking every bit of confidence you have away from you and make you believe that everything you do is rubbish, that you do nothing and you are lazy, that all your friends talk about you nobody likes you. I lost my Dad when I was 15, my mother remarried a lovely man 2 years later who was my father for more than half my life. I lost my Granny, I had my 1st child, I lost 2 babies, he showed nothing, it was just another day to my husband, I had my 2nd child, 3 months later (only5 years after my Granny) he showed nothing, I lost my mother-in-law 6 months later, he showed nothing, not towards me. I did all my grieving alone.
My step dad as lovely as he had been tried to rape me a couple of years before he died, yet again my husband did not help me deal with this, in fact he laughed at me.
How stupid was I? Well it was his 2nd marriage and he was separated but not divorced at first, so I have been celibate 24 years and married 23years.
I also got fed up with trying to make an appointment for sex but it never happening, sex an money is always withheld from me.
My husband has a totally negative attitude about everything in life.
I was very lonely and unhappy, my 2 children moved out in late teens and later with my husband we even moved to Spain. I see my children often, he rarely makes the effort. Now I have realised that he never bought me a present.... ever, my wedding & engagement rings were my mother's. He shows me no respect at all and makes me feel useless and believe that I am a total failure. The last 2 years I have stood up to this and slowly I am gaining more confidence and would love to get away but I am now financially trapped to an abusive alcoholic, who starts drinking at 11-30am, and unless out at a bar he does what he has done for 30 years sleeps in a comatosed state from about 7pm, every single night unless out still drinking.
I sleep in a separate (tiny) room in a much smaller house than in UK and live as much a separate live as possible.
I am 54 now and still think I have some miles in me, I am fit, do a lot of pilate type classes and loads of stage and dance work, but I feel that I have missed out on so much, I would love to have someone to share my life and experiences with and maybe do a lot of things that I have been denied before I get too old. I will mend my wings, hopefully.
Please get out while you can, do not wait until you can't.

hi ostracised. Your relationship sounds like mine. I've had no sex, no affection and total indifference for about 4 years now. I've posted on here too, mainly about losing my temper and becoming angry. I can't believe that there are so many couples like this. I didn't acknowledge it was happening, but I've finally woken up!! You have had the courage to face your problems and to go for counselling, after which I'm sure you'll feel much, much better.

You are still young - forties is nothing!!- and you have a life ahead of you.

kittypem - your post is so sad, but so glad you are starting to regain some confidence in yourself.

Wow, I just did a search on the internet to figure out what a statement my husband had made to see what it meant and somehow I ended up on this page - I'm sure unrelated, but maybe it was Karma or something. I am having very similar situation as some of the posts I see. I think my husband is emotionally disconnected from our marriage. And to top it all off, he spends a large portion of his time visiting the Cam Girl sites and developing, I'm sure, fantasy relationships with them as it does cost him to keep up the sexual and non-sexual skype or whatever system is uses. I am just hanging for a while in the relationship, hoping that something might be rekindled and we can or at least he can find love again with me. Otherwise, I will probably leave the relationship. I have giving myself time lines as to how long I will wait and the most is a year and maybe shorter depending on any events that may occur between now and then. The probably with just up and leaving, is that we have three kids, with the youngest 4 and the oldest 16. We have been together for 20 plus years. So, as you can see, it's just so hard to leave, especially, when I still love him so very much. I just don't know how I could love him still when he has emotionally checked out of our relationship and spends an exobant amount of money with Cam Girl sites and has in the past sent out feelers with Facebook friends or old highschool friends or just girls he comes across on the internet. He has never physically cheated, I am almost positive about that. I am just hanging out, hoping he will check back into our marriage, as he once was so in love with me, and I can't believe it can just go away like that. Yes, we have had some horrible fights and crap over the last three years when everything just came to a head. He has been unhappy about many things over the 20 years in our relationship - he seems to concentrate on all the bad and doesn't remember all the good times we've had. Every marriage has some bad, but I don't think it was all bad, the way he seems to think it was. The reason I also want to make it work, is we have young kids. The reason I want to leave, is because I am lonely and desire a physical and emotional relationship and he says I am selfish and should think about my kids. What do most people out there in this blog do? Is anyone staying in it forever or do you have a time frame as to how long you will give it?

ostracized.....what happened in the end???

Sometimes you have to be away from a relationship to be aware of just how dire and damaging it was Lilac said and I agree.

So, what about a trial separation, say for 6 months? Would help you clarify? (But make sure you see a solicitor before you suggest and know your legal rights just in case he gets nasty).

I think counselling might help too...

I caught my husband haveing a six month affair with a woman he had known when very young .He was twentyone years of age . We had been married for four decades .He conntacted her via Facebook .
I got a legal separation after much consideration on my part .
We still live in the same house because we comitted ourselves to doing some childcare of our Grandson before school most weeks .Neither of us want to move awayfrom the area and start again .
On whole we get on okay although I sometimes feel I basically didnt know the man I was married to all that time . Never thought he could be so selfish and cruel after our life together . Its the betrayal .
He has shown another side to his character too since this happened .Everytime I try to talk about it he turns it into a row so I cannot discuss things. He wants us to forget it happened but I still have the occasional question . For example I would like to know if their politics were similar -did they eat out often .Just like to ask things that pop into my head . I dont think its unreasonable on my part -as Im the innocent party . Asking any question is met by awful anger . He deliberatly goads me by 'talking me out 'so I cant speak .I have felt extreme aggression towards him when he behaves in this manner. It takes it out of me and puts my blood pressure up .
My sister owns a cottage that is sometimes empty so he goes off there most weeks now just for a few days . It isnt a perminent solution . My sister owns the cottage and comes back for America ,where she lives , frequently .When he does this we meet up in town for lunch -its very pleasant . Its difficult to live together -Im still very hurt after two years .I cant forgive mainly because of his behaviour now . I think he is still behaving selfishly .