Married but living a totally single, celibate, emotionally separate life

[ostracized]

Hi
Have posted quite a lot about my problems with dh. Have had lots of problems over the years.... It used to be that we would have sex every 6 weeks roughly, and then possibly twice over a period of a few days but then nothing at all for the next 6 weeks... There would be no affection or cuddles or nice words in between. We don't sleep in the same bed as I normally end up sleeping in dds' room when one of them wakes up in the night. Plus I no longer want to sleep in the same bed as dh since it is soul destroying to lie next to someone who cannot be bothered to even put an arm over you, yet finds it very easy to be physically affectionate with our three kids.
We have had a couple of quite bad arguments over the past few months and things have now become totally detached. I no longer go to his bed to initiate sex (which is what used to happen, not that he wasn't willing when this happened) upon the odd occasion because I no longer want to be in a situation where sex roughly 10 times a year (or whatever having sex every six weeks works out at) is the glue that holds our relationship together. I would much rather be able to cuddle and say nice things on a regular basis - and kiss (he does not do kissing at all, only during sex). The other thing is that I find it impossible to talk to him about any of this because he becomes defensive/shouty very quickly and throws "state of house" back in my face (house untidy it is true).
So we are now at a stalemate (except I don't know if he thinks of it this way as we don't talk about it) whereby we are living together, looking after the kids (almost 5, almost 7 and 9 years old) - having an occasional laugh about the kids, occasionally talking about his work and my volunteering at school or what might be on TV, and that's it.

Should add that the thing I dislike about him the most is his short temper and propensity to be very scornful and negative about things. This means that there are lots of things that I don't bother talking about as I know what he is going to say / how he is going to react. Communication is not free and easy between us and I wonder whether in reality we have reached the end of the road and in a situation without kids we would separate and move on.
Next Friday I am going to relate by myself to find out what a counsellor thinks about all of this. The thing is that every time that I think that actually, we do have to separate, I feel physically sick thinking of having to do this to the kids and also be apart from them during the times that dh would have them.
So, do I concentrate on looking after my kids and the house better, my own social life / work (hope to get a job as a teaching assistant) and being as friendly as possible with dh (but not a couple as it were) and just accept that at 42 I will never have a romantic / sex life again :( ???? Dh is 12 years older than me and I think that his attitude is that he just wants to be with the kids.
I suppose the purpose of my post is to ask whether other people live in "relationships" like these which are functional? I would really like an open, equal, communicative and loving relationship with dh but I don't think it is possible.

I just can't imagine sharing a house with someone who didn't talk to me for 2 months!

It's insanity. It all comes down to whether he is happy enough to put up with status quo or whether he would put effort into changing

at the drop of a hat ??

seriously ?

you still think this is "a drop of a hat" ??

after your numerous threads deailing what a prize prick he is, and how badly he treats you ?

then, again, I have to step away from one of your threads

it's becoming a recurring theme for me

god knows what that says about your life

you make so many bargains and rationalisations, love, you no longer know your arse from your elbow < sigh >

you know what, from my own viewpoint, your marriage is the abyss

esme, I am so sorry love, but do you realise what you are saying ?

you have to take anti depressants to numb yourself against the behaviour of your husband

that is seriously fucked up

missed your message too lilacisinlove - I'm glad you have met someone you are loved by and can love in return :) ...
I also think that ds and dd1 argue in the same way that dh and I do. Not that they argue all the time, and some of that is due to dd1 not being that much younger than ds - so he is always going to have that feeling that she was the baby who came along and "de-throned" him as it were when he was only 2 years old - but there is a certain tone and way of arguing that they have which is similar to how dh and I sometimes talk to each other.
Was your husband's hoarding hard for you to deal with? I don't hoard PILES of stuff but I do keep a lot more than dh would and I am interested to hear how what it feels like from the other side of the fence.

1950's Mogadon generation

I thought that was a thing of the past...obviously not

I have posted on several of your other threads and I agree with PeterAndre - I really don't get why you think you have to stay or why you think that someone else (i.e. not your DH) will be able to wave a magic wand and make everything suddenly ok.

"Plus I hope that the counsellor has some other suggestions other than telling me to leave. The ideal would be dh coming to counselling with me and I'm hoping that the counsellor will help me with ideas on how to convince him this would be a good idea."

I don't think the counsellor will be giving you ideas or helping you convince someone else of anything. They will listen to you and (hopefully) help you understand why you feel you have to stay in this situation.

And as a child of parents who had a terrible relationship but stayed together for the sake of the children, I can tell you it was horrible. We were aware of how awful things were and have all been affected by it. Your children cannot help but notice that your DH isn't talking to you for two months at a time or the despicable way he speaks to you.

What are you getting out of this relationship?

ostracized, when you have your own place you can do what you like :)

The first time my mum came to my new house she had to let herself in...I was on the phone to her explaining where to find the glasses and work the ice dispenser on the freezer and she said to me 'It looks like no-one lives here!' I smiled and said 'And that's just how I like it!'

I have only been in my ex's house once since we moved out (he is still in the house we shared). The amount of STUFF everywhere made my skin creep and my fingers itch to sweep it all into binbags. I did no such thing, of course, as it is his home and his choice. It did make me think though that it must have been a struggle for him living with me for the last 12 years as I relentlessly put things away or threw them out.

There is 2 years and 1 month between my two. DD1 certainly expects certain privileges as the eldest. Some she gets not because she's the eldest, but because she's at boarding school and only spends the weekend here every two weeks in term time. As a youngest child, I am very keen to speak up for the rights of DD2 though - I know how it feels! I think sibling rivalry is inevitable, no matter what the age gap.

I'm sorry peter andre but your last post is upsetting - I understand that you might not want to read my thread(s) - yes they are always about the same thing and it is boring, but why is it becoming a recurring theme for you? I also don't understand the comment about my life? Yes I suppose my problem is always the same one but I don't think I am totally static - I am moving forward with my thoughts and actually having booked a counsellor is part of this. Yes I do bury my head in the sand. The thing about dh is that I don't think he realises how difficult I find things. It's true, I don't want to spend the rest of my life thinking about my "relationship" so it should be case of either turning things around (with help of counsellor) or calling it a day.

I really don't mean to offend people who are divorced / separated - I am not saying that THEY are living in the abyss (so to speak) but just that from where I am now, thinking about something which is so scary and so much the unknown is like looking into it.

Plus don't know why you couldn't have said I can't see the wood for the trees - which is true but kinder than arse from elbow!

lilacisinlove - I think my dh would love your new house :). I sound like I should be on that programme with kim and aggie - it's seriously not like that, just generally looks a little frazzled round the edges with toys around the place, kids' papers on the table and some clothes that need to be put away. Give me two whole uninterrupted days and I could sort it out. I do feel slightly ashamed that I don't do it but seem to find kids and kitchen more than enough to cope with - then again could have spent the last hour that I have been on mumsnet sorting stuff out so there's your answer - I don't spend enough time doing it.
malinkey - sorry about your parents - did they stay together even when all the kids had left home? Yes on a personal emotional level I don't get much from my relationship apart from moments when dh and I have a laugh about the kids but we could do that if we were friendly co-parents so... The thing about dh is that he comes from a family full of bad-tempered sulkers. His dad was an alcoholic who left when dh was 15. I think there was a lot of arguing in his house and he is used to this as kind of baseline behaviour. I don't think it comes naturally to him to consider how I might be feeling and I don't think he realises how lonely I feel at times. Then again he must be equally lonely but seems to have the mental constitution of an ox (he is extremely stubborn) and can live like that.

My parents split up after we'd all left home. They had no relationship left at all by that stage.

I don't get why you keep making excuses for your DH. Following that logic, then that excuses your children from becoming bad-tempered sulkers too, because it's not their fault. It doesn't matter where he comes from - his behaviour towards you is wrong.

My mother is a difficult woman who made our lives hell when we were growing up - not compared to a lot of other stories I've read on here mind but bad enough. We (her children) have all suffered as a result. But it is up to us as adults to deal with the fallout and learn how to live a better life. It in no way gives us an excuse to treat our own families the way she treated us.

If you don't make excuses for him and just describe his behaviour, does that sound like someone you want to live with?

I understand why PeterAndre is so frustrated with you. Because you keep asking for advice and because in every new thread you start your situation sounds so miserable everyone says leave him, you can't change him, he's responsible for his own behaviour, etc. But you don't seem to want to listen. And even talking about trying to persuade your counsellor to have a go at changing him. It's not going to happen.

We all want you to be happier. And I can't see any way that that would include staying with the nasty piece of work your DH is.

Thank you malinkey. No, if I had just met dh and he behaved as he mostly does now (either being bad tempered, rude or not talking) then I wouldn't want to live with him. The thing about my posts on here is that they are all from my point of view. His point of view may well be that I left the marital bed a long time ago and that I can't be bothered to keep the house tidy even though he is out at work every day working really hard to pay the mortgage and trying to deal with the debt. I am really not rationalising at this point, I promise!

It doesn't really matter what his point of view is though does it? You are miserable because of his behaviour.

He (or you!) can justify it any number of ways but the way he behaves is making you unhappy. It has nothing to do with being tidy or untidy.

ostracized - disregard the upsetting posts. It is not for people on an internet forum to tell you how to live your life. You are on your own journey in this marriage, and you are probably trying to explore every avenue to sort things out before you make a de make a decision. My dh did come to counseling with me , 3 separate bouts of counselling over 2 years, but aftr initial improvements, things would invariably slide backwards again

malinkey - thanks for "it has nothing to do with being tidy or untidy" - I do kind of think that deep down but it needs re-affirming.

esme - I'm impressed that your husband came to counselling but sorry things slid back - my aunt and her partner go to counselling regularly and have been doing it for ages with no foreseeable end in sight I think - could this be something you and your dh could do?

it would be a mistake to "disregard" the posts that puncture your denial

that is of course your perogative, however

if you wish to stay unhappy, you will maintain the status quo

your husband sure ain't gonna change anything, he has things just the way he likes them

he is in control, he sets the mood, happy days

if you want things to change, you have to decide to do it for yourself, instead of hoping he will suddenly see the error of his ways

it's not gonna happen

also think that it is unfair others to criticise you for not having made a decision yet to stay or go. Imo it is better to take as long as you need to make the right decision than to rush into making a wrong decision.

esme...puncturing denial would of course be seen as "criticism"

when seen by someone who is hanging on to denial for grim death, and medicating to get through it

I'm off to bed now. I'm also going to leave this thread again as I don't want to keep going on at you!

I really hope that your counselling goes well and things work out for you. Of course I hope that that means you leave the useless bugger and go off and live your life to the full without the selfish whingebag bringing you down.

Hi Peter Andre, I'm not disregarding posts. I agree the status quo is crap. Don't see how husband could like things the way they are though as surely he must be feeling lonely and sex starved as well???
It's true that he sets the mood...
Yes things must change. Not sure what that change is going to look like though. I personally wish dh would go away for a long holiday (3 months at least) giving me time to think and relax and organise and him time to just enjoy life and be happy somewhere in the sun away from his work worries.

And esme - I don't think anyone on this thread is rushing into making any decisions!

Good night malinkey :). Esme and Peter Andre - maybe denial is a self-preservative mechanism which has to be there until enough strength is felt to face facts as they are?

I'm sure nobody leaves a relationship based solely on other people's comments (especially people who only hear one side of the story). It is useful however to find out what other people see as normal and acceptable.
Agree about not rushing a decision like this... I'm more worried by the fact that I seem to be unable to talk to dh about anything that really matters to me. Also that I have spent so long thinking about the state of our relationship, and I would rather free that mental energy for something else!

No disrespect to to peter andre, malinkey et al, your advice is well meant, but you dont know op or her dh, and you have to respect her wish to find her own solution in her own time. Goodnite to all, will check back tomorrow on this thread. X

Good night esme :).

where has it been said there is no respect of OP's viewpoint ?

she keeps asking the same questions, she keeps getting the same answers

OP, your mental energy would be better utilised in getting RL help in understanding why you you feel it is so taboo to walk away from a shit relationship

but while you are still waiting, still hoping, that someone will tell you how to make it better (and you have said it yourself re. the upcoming counselling session) you will be stuck on this ever decreasing circle

you want your counsellor to help you stay, don't you ?

you want him/her to tell you it's not so bad

it is bad

while your kids grow up in a crappy atmosphere

ostracised...are you on medication too, to help you "cope" ?

with all due respect, ostracised, I know you don't actually want to see my advice, but your thread is not exactly over-run with people refuting me (unless they have their own issues) and giving you positive reinforcement for your shitty relationship, is it ?

you are an intelligent woman, you know what I am saying