Anyone with experience in alcoholism? Questions re: codependency and husband wanting to stop drinking

[pollycazalet]

DH has been drinking a lot over the last few months. At least a bottle of wine a night, sometimes more.

He has depression and is on medication for it. The drinking is linked to this - he uses it to self medicate, which obviously cancels out some of the effects of the anti-ds!

He has now said he thinks he is an alcoholic and accepts that his drinking is having a negative effect on our relationship.

Our relationship has been up and down over the last three years since he had a breakdown which led to the depression diagnosis. I think he has had depression for a long time and alcohol has been one of his ways of coping. I have enabled his drinking to some extent by drinking with him on an (often) daily basis.

He has said that he wants to stop drinking with the aim ultimately of improving his mental health and coming off the anti-ds. He has asked me to help him by not drinking myself at home and not having alcohol in the house. It has been a week now.

I have never managed his drinking or tried to control it. I am not sure whether this puts me now in that position, in that I cannot have a drink myself at home. He feels he cannot control himself around drink - ie if it's here he will drink it. And what happens when we are out socially? Whilst DH can control his home environment he needs to be able to be around drink without needing to drink himself.

Is it common to have a dry house and is this helping DH or not, in the long term?

I don't really understand what codependence means - what I want to do is help him but I realise that he has to do this himself.

Any advice or insight welcome.

Not an expert but I think your husband has done brilliantly. I also suspect he would not have done so well without your support. It us very early days but he fairly emotionally intelligent. Can you discuss these concerns with him? I suspect it is way too early but treat him like an adult (an excellent way of you avoiding being codependent!). Tell him you are worrying and that you would like to know how he thinks these worries should be dealt with. Just keep the pressure off for now. Make sure he knows you think he is doing well and you would appreciate his thoughts on how to adds you concerns at some point. You can always gently remind him in a few weeks.

Alcohol as you likely realise is a depressant so self medicating with alcohol is really doing your H no favours at all.

Now he has said to you he is an alcoholic what is he actually going to do?. What support is he (yes he, you don't do that for him)now going to access?. I ask this as words are cheap, he can say all sorts and ultimately not do anything himself. You really do not want him placing all the responsibility now on your shoulders. He can only help his own self here; you cannot force change.

Re this comment:-
"I have enabled his drinking to some extent by drinking with him on an (often) daily basis"
And not to some extent either. Drinking alcohol with him is enabling him; your house needs to become an alcohol free one. If he is alcoholic he cannot drink alcohol at all.

I would suggest you read "Codependent No More" written by Melodie Beattie as that explains codependency very succintly. This is often present within such relationships.

I would also say that you're as caught up in all this as much as he is; alcoholism is a family disease and the whole family need help and support.
Do you have children?. I would urge you to seek support for your own self and attend Al-anon meetings if at all possible. At the very least look at their website, talk to them on the phone and read their literature.

The 3cs re alcoholism:-

1. You did not cause this
2. You cannot control this (at least you have realised this point to your credit)
3. You cannot cure this

Your husband has taken the biggest step he will need to take by accepting he has a problem and asking for help.

My mother was an alcoholic and gave up drinking with the help of AA and my Dad's support over thirty years ago. She has not had a drink since her first AA meeting, and I do not remember her drinking. She still goes to meetings and counsels drinkers who want to give up. She does now have alcohol in the house though for visitors, and is comfortable about not drinking at weddings etc (she is "out" to most of her friends).

I grew up in a dry house. I don't think it is uncommon, especially as your DH is coming to terms with not drinking. Basically, if the temptation is not there, he can not drink easily.

I would very much recommend Alcoholics Anonymous, and their family support group Al-Anon, and Al-Ateen a for the children of drinkers/ex drinkers. Also, by falling into a social group of non-drinkers, not drinking does not become an issue.

I have a similar situation at home. From my experience, he will not stop until he gets suitable treatment for his depression, with all the will in the world once he gets into one of those terrible down phases he will want to drink to try and make himself feel better and no promises will matter. Also the drinking has become a habit that is hard to break. What has helped in our situation, is a lot of talking and group therapy and CBT to deal with the depression, as well as the ADs. However, being off the booze definately helps with the depression, the ADs work better, alcohol is a depressant, the downs are not as long or deep, the depressive phase is more managable. Perhaps as well as seeing a psychiatrist for the depression, he should try and see someone for the drinking i.e. GP or AA? There was some info on depression and drinking here www.mentalhealth.org.uk/content/assets/PDF/publications/alcohol_and_mental_health.pdf

If you are wondering whether you have codependent tendencies, just ask yourself,

"Am I more of an expert on what he needs than on what I need?"

If your answer is "yes," then you are probably to some degree in the midst of a codependent relationship.

It would help him greatly if you could continue to not drink around him for a while yet and not have alcohol in the house. Many recovering alcoholics go on to be at ease around drinks and other drinkers but it does take time.

Do you go out with friends without him? Could you limit yourself to only drinking on those occasions for a year or so? I am sure he would appreciate it.

Also, I think in answer to your question re a dry house. Yes, it does help the situation, it is not enabling him to drink at home and supporting him by not drinking around him, but ultimately if he wants to drink he will and there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop him. Also, the current insight he has in regards to his drinking habits may not stay if he manages a few dry weeks, so perhaps encourage him to see his GP sooner than later for professional support?

The codependent part is hard, both the nature of living with a depressive and an alcoholic makes it likely that yes, you are in a codependent relationship.

We always had a dry house, if people came for dinner they brough soft drinks. No alcohol at all. It was when the alcohol came back into the house (odd bottle of beer here or there) that things started going crap here again.

Not only was he not able to drink at all nor was i, and after all this time he stills drinks and i dont at all. Im quite resentful that he has ruined any chance of a normal drinking habit that i might of had. I hate alcohol and he loves it which means my kids are not getting a reasonable sensible outlook on alcohol.

I started a thread about him yesterday but i cant find it now i think it may have disapeared????

My advice is to keep the house dry, dont let people bring it in. Dont drink around him socially and make sure his true friends and family are on board and know about it also.

Dhs mum brings him cider round even now she really hasnt a clue.

I don't have extensive experience of this, but I can tell you how we deal with my alcoholism in my relationship with DP, and how my parents deal with it (dad is an alcoholic).

We don't keep alcohol in our home at all. DP chose to stop drinking long before I did, but that was entirely his choice. His decision at the time didn't really affect me because we weren't drinking together anyway. Not having alcohol indoors is crucial for me. I can trust myself to be strong and resist temptation for a few hours when we're out, but if I was having to live with that temptation I think I would inevitably fail. I wouldn't mind DP drinking when he's out with mates, but he chooses not to. Again, his choice; it really doesn't bother me, although I do appreciate how supportive he is. I don't expect DP to never have a drink again, but I do expect him to keep it away from our home. I would be very hurt if he ever came home drunk.

My parents do it differently. I would say my mum is an enabler and co-dependant on my dad being a 'useless drunk'. She will buy alcohol for my dad and manipulate him into drinking when he's trying to stay sober. It's quite nasty actually; she'll deliberately start an argument when she knows he's struggling and will then tell him that he may as well drink because he's no use to anyone sober anyway. I think she has spent too many years being the 'good' one, but I don't really understand why she wants the status quo to remain unchanged.

BTW, DH might find it very difficult to access help for his depression while he's still drinking. It was impossible for me and I was desperate. AA is not necessary for alcoholics either, although it can be a huge help. I got help from a community alcohol team provided by the NHS.

Good luck to you and DH.

Thanks for the comments.

Yes, we have two children, 8 and 11.

I should say that DH is not an aggressive or violent drunk. He doesn't drink in the day or really when the kids are around (just a glass or two of wine when we're eating together). Most of his drinking is done in the evenings when they are in bed - he usually stops when he falls asleep on the sofa.

He has had therapy which has helped him get to this point. He has the number for substance abuse support (think this covers alcohol). I think it's the next step (but a big step in terms of him self-defining as an alcoholic) for him to contact them.

I'll have a look at the al-anon website.

livinginazoo - is your partner drinking?

I am not sure whether he thinks 'this is it, no more drinking' or 'I'll try a few weeks not drinking at all'.

He has previously given up for a month and then started again.

I don't think AA would be a good fit for him - as I understand it there is a spiritual element to it which would turn him off entirely.

Atilla - I think I do answer 'yes' to your question but I think that is as much about dealing with a partner with depression as the alcohol issue.

Thanks for the comments.

Yes, we have two children, 8 and 11.

I should say that DH is not an aggressive or violent drunk. He doesn't drink in the day or really when the kids are around (just a glass or two of wine when we're eating together). Most of his drinking is done in the evenings when they are in bed - he usually stops when he falls asleep on the sofa.

He has had therapy which has helped him get to this point. He has the number for substance abuse support (think this covers alcohol). I think it's the next step (but a big step in terms of him self-defining as an alcoholic) for him to contact them.

I'll have a look at the al-anon website.

livinginazoo - is your partner drinking?

Polly

I feel for your children here as well. You cannot as their Mum unfortunately fully protect your children from the full realities of his depression and alcoholism. They see the empties in the recycling; they see him the next day after another bender looking awful. They see how you react to him as well and probably feel a whole gamut of emotions.

He may not be a violent or aggressive drunk thankfully but he is still a drunkard and your family including your children need outside help and support. He is no H to you nor father to his children as his primary relationship currently is with drink. You're all coming a dim and distant second to that. Your eldest is probably all too aware of what is going on at home as well:(.

I hope he makes some phone calls but if he does not do anything given time you have your answer ultimately. Give your self a time limit re him and stick to it to the letter.

You cannot make him change but you can certainly change how you react to him. Not drinking alcohol at all with him would be a very good start.

Hi polly, there is another thread going at the mo, started by PeggyGuggenheim, which might interest you.

I have all but given up drinking at home (partly to not enable, partly because I just get no pleasure out of drinking with someone who is drinking to get drunk, or is already drunk because they have already had a few on the quiet) and it has made not one jot of difference to my dh's drinking. The difference is he does not want to stop and has not fully acknowledged there is a problem. I have in the past told him I would be willing to have a dry house if that would help him, but he is still fixed on the idea that he can just cut down whilst having crates of wine stacked up in the garage!
As others have said I think it is perhaps helpful to have a dry house at this stage and hope he can progress to be comfortable around alcohol eventually.

Polly I am sure my husband is depressed too, but which came first? Alcohol as we all know is a depressant. A Friend's dh noticed how much he had changed since the last time they met, and opened up about his own experiences with a-ds and he had become teetotal. (Don't think he was a problem drinker, but had noticed that alcohol was not helping)He seemed fired up to make a GP appointment but he was drinking so much I was worried he would hide that from the GP and end up on a-d's and drinking together. I said it would be really important that he is honest with the GP about how much he drinks, and that has put him off going, unfortunately. Similarly with relationship or individual counselling, I don't think they would do him any good with the amount he drinks.
Still, he's been sober for nearly 48 hours now, which is a record for about the last 3 years. It's a breath of fresh air, even though it probably won't last.

Atilla there's no doubt that the children have been affected by my DH's depression over the last three years. He has told me that we are the most important thing to him though - that is why he is trying to make a change.

Halfcaff - I have drunk more than I wanted to in the past to keep up with my DH (or to manage to get a second glass out of the bottle before it's emptied). I agree you lose the enjoyment for it.

Polly

re your comments:-

"I am not sure whether he thinks 'this is it, no more drinking' or 'I'll try a few weeks not drinking at all'."

Well ask him what he exactly means. A few weeks not drinking at all is not going to cut it, he needs to stop the alcohol completely. He cannot as well do this without outside help as you have already seen.

"He has previously given up for a month and then started again".

That is not a good sign, it shows that he was not fully ready nor able to give up. He may well continue to relapse in similar ways for years to come; are you going to want to wait that long for an epiphany on his part that may never arrive?. I am now wondering if he has only said what he has now to butter you up some more. There are no guarantees re alcoholism; he could lose everything and still drink.

"I don't think AA would be a good fit for him - as I understand it there is a spiritual element to it which would turn him off entirely".

I think he is afraid. He can take what he wants from the meetings but I don't personally think he'll ever get to AA.

Has he made an appointment with his GP?. Go along with him to any appt he makes. Can you talk to the GP yourself re your H. See what your H does or not as the case may be. Words are cheap after all, its actions that count and that is what you need to look for from him now.

Alcoholism thrives on secrecy; you need to start talking to people like Al-anon.

"Atilla - I think I do answer 'yes' to your question but I think that is as much about dealing with a partner with depression as the alcohol issue".

Well you are codependent then to him and ultimately not helping either you or him. Its your children who will feel the effects of all this in the longer term - what are you both teaching your children about relationships here?. That thorny question also needs addressing. Do read the book I wrote of as well.

Do contact Al-anon too; you need their support.

My partner misused alcohol strongly as a means to cope with his terrible depressive feelings. He has had severe depression for many years, properly diagnosed more recently. He has had proper professional advice suggesting he is not an alcoholic, but that the addictive behaviour was directly correlated with his depression and self-medication. This is extremely common in men, and also a reason that many depressives have sex addictions, gambling, affairs - anything that makes them feel a little less suicidal tbh. However, the effects of the drinking have been enormously negative for me but not independent to the effects of the depression. So whether he is an alcoholic or not in that sense makes no difference as long as the behaviour continues. He is not currently drinking, and that is making a big difference to his recovery from his illness. I do not believe he could ever get free from depression whilst not sober. That is not to say that he could not drink at all once properly recovered. But he is getting a huge amount of professional treatment for his depression and that is what is making a difference, and I am very proud of him for that as it is not an easy illness to live with or recover from.

Halfcaff - DH's GP and therapist have identified he has a problem with alcohol. In his case the things are completely interlinked - he's used it as a crutch for a long time.

I don't think he would be able to take this step now unless he had worked through some of the issues through therapy. He has a good understanding of the reasons for the depression and the patterns of behaviour he has been following.

I think he was shocked when I told him how many units were in a bottle of wine and totted up how many he was drinking a week now (over three x the recommended limits).

We are also older now - over 40 - and he's worried about the health effects.

Attila, I don't see how Polly thinking she is more of an expert on what her DH needs makes her co-dependant. Everybody recognises that an alcoholic needs to stop drinking before the alcoholic themselves recognises it. Could you explain more about that please.

As for AA, I agree that he should give it a go if he is serious about maintaining sobriety. It's not the only way to succeed though and it's definitely not for everybody.

ATM, I'm interested that you recommend accompanying a dh to the GP - how does this fit with not taking responsibility for his actions? I offered to do this but he has not taken me up on it, as he knows I would tell the truth!

Zoo - your situation sounds very similar to mine.

Atilla - I agree that he was not ready to give up before. Is he ready now? Not sure. I appreciate you posting but I think you're making some sweeping statements "I don't personally think he'll ever get to AA".

Polly, I hope you didn't think I was suggesting your dh couldn't be helped by therapy/meds whilst drinking; it's great that he has come this far and acknowledges a problem.
I don't think my dh could as he would either be too drunk to go to therapy or they would smell the booze on him and say they can't help him today, come back sober. I would love to go to couples therapy as there are some underlying issues I would love to sort out, but there is no point while he is drinking so much, as he basically talks rubbish.
There is a chance that meds could help him, but I think it's dangerous ground for him, as I am sure he would not be honest with the GP about his drinking and could end up in a worse state.

Hear hear, familycircus. Polly if you read the other thread I mentioned you will see there is a lot of 'recycling' on this one from a particular poster!

Halfcaff - I didn't think that, I suppose I was trying to say that DH wouldn't have accepted he had a problem or felt able to start to do something about it until he's worked through some of the underlying issues which have have contributed to the depression.

Polly, the NHS alcohol service that I used might be very good for your DH. I used to see a therapist every week for an hour to talk about whatever was bothering me. I did this for a month before I stopped drinking, and I got to choose the date when I was ready.

There was lots of support afterwards as well, but I was allowed to choose which bits I wanted. I went to a support group 3 times per week and then had CBT on another day. I did this for 6 months and it really sorted me out.

DH does have to come clean about his own expectations though. He has to 'get it' that he won't be able to return to drinking, ever. His behaviour is typical; it's a myth that people come out of denial and go straight into a recovery programme. In reality they often go back into denial for a while, or decide that they they can handle it. It's a process.

It doesn't mean you have to put up with it though. There are no guarantees with this, he may never get it unfortunately. In the end it only makes sense to do what's right for you and the DC.