Toxic parents - some interesting advice. Does it apply to colleagues, too?

[edam]

Hi am putting this here even though it's about work because it is about a relationship and I wonder whether some of the stuff you lot are good on wrt toxic parents might apply. And whether there's any way of resolving it or whether you just have to walk away from toxic people? Btw, it's long, sorry.

There's a man who supposed to be on the same level as me in a voluntary organisation. He's a nasty bully. Worst thing is my mother worked for the same organisation and he bullied her and she lost her job. Horrible horrible situation. Classic workplace bullying, vicious nasty personal attacks mostly by email, saying horrible things behind her back to other people in person and via email, overloading with irrelevant work when he knew full well she (and I) were working full tilt on the launch of this organisation.

The frustrating thing is the other directors cannot see it. They think he's reasonable. God knows how, except that they are all doctors and doctors tend to defend each other from criticism.

(One tiny e.g. - on an email to me he flatly rejected a request that he communicate with me as chair of a committee, rather than emailing all the members with his snide remarks. Later on in the exchange of emails he denied flatly that he'd done that - in the same email thread where it was in black and white! Then another director congratulated him on being positive and reasonable!)

Someone on a toxic parents thread said toxic people never acknowledge they are at fault, never listen when their children try to point out what has gone wrong. So am I on a hiding to nothing trying to appeal for reason and pointing out how unacceptable his behaviour is? Is there any way of convincing the other people involved that this is not on at all? Or should I just write the whole thing off?

My mother still wants a resolution - she wants acknowledgment that this was wrong and an apology. We have a meeting with this shitforbrains and the other directors in 10 day's time. Is there anything we can do to show them the objective truth, or will they just carry on arguing black is white?

Thanks in advance to anyone who reads through this very lengthy post, btw...

bump just in case any of the experts on toxic parents are around and feel like helping...

Is there an HR person you can go to for advice? The fact that this bully puts some of his behaviour in writing could work strongly in your favour - ie, it is not your word vs his, or simply a matter of 'misinterpretation'.

However, my advice would be not to waste your energy trying to 'open the eyes' of the directors. It would consume a tremendous amount of emotional and mental energy to discredit this person, and he would likely try to retaliate and smear you. What he is doing is wrong, without doubt, but do you/your Mum need to be the ones to expose him? What would it 'cost' you potentially?

I'd just move on to another place where you are treated better, valued and appreciated.

Hi Early, thanks for the advice.

They didn't have an HR person when all this was happening but have just recruited one.

Agree with you, it's very possibly not worth the candle, but it is so infuriating that someone can get away with behaviour like this. And my poor Mother is unable to let go. She's been so hurt and so ill as a result.

I would talk to ACAS as well about this situation but I think meeting now with these people will be a waste of both time and effort. You are not going to get him or them as an organisation to admit any wrong doing here.

Very probably true, Attila. Sadly.

When he sent you the email you should have sent a reply and "accidently" sent it to everyone else in error and they would have been able to read what he had written.

If this is something you and your mum can walk away from, I'd recommend the following:

Document every incident the pair of you can think of, where we was unquestionably out of order. Don't bother with generalities, stick to specifics. It's great that you have emails. Make a dossier/presentation of it. State specifically what you feel he's done - patronising, bullying, moving goalposts, claiming credit for others' work, sexism, racism, whatever you can demonstrate.

If the new HR person isn't going to be at your meeting, present your complaints to the meeting first then tell the HR person and give them a copy. This is because HR will try to achieve a negotiated solution, and you won't get your chance to blow his cover in the meeting.

Resign.

If you're not willing to walk away, then I'm afraid you'll have to go through proper procedures and this can be unbelievably stressful. You've seen what it did to your mother.

I am very much in favour in exposing bullies and bringing them down wherever possible. Bullies don't change, though it is possible to get them to modify their behaviour - bullying them harder & better. But your mental & emotional health is more important than the greater good here. Please be prepared to turn your back.

Whatever you decide, good luck and stay safe.

Thanks Ageing and deste. New HR person will apparently be at the meeting - I don't know whether to approach them first and fill them in or whether that would be a bad move.

Deste, oh yes, I replied. And have replied in the past. Does no ruddy good at all. The other people copied in either ignore his rudeness or don't even notice it (one of them confessed he doesn't read every email in a chain, only the most recent - so often misses the context).

Oh, and the problem was there weren't any proper procedures - it's a new organisation and the directors were bleeding clueless. Had no idea what procedures there should be, seemed to think they were above employment law and the norms of professional corporate behaviour.

How long have you/your Mum worked there?

My mother worked for their predecessor organisation so maybe two or three years? But she's worked for the chair for something like 12 years, originally at another organisation he leads. Which is why it is so horribly painful. We are in similar fields, I've known the chair as a work contact and friend for about 14 years. He asked me to come on board this new organisation in the summer.

If the chair is a friend as well as a colleague, why haven't you spoken to him about this problem person? Surely you/your Mum have his ear, and he would be concerned for your professional welfare both as a boss and as a friend?

Edam, how do you see your relationship with your other work colleagues working out after this? It seems to me you are putting yourself in an impossible situation. Are you prepared to resign?

Perhaps you should distance yourself a bit from it if not.

Print out all the offending emails before you do anything else. Maybe you need to forward them to yourself at home too so that you have more evidence.

What an idiot to send comments by email though. It's far harder to prove when someone says something than when they write it down.

Early - sadly he was a friend but has been crap about this. Always knew he was the type to run away from conflict but have been really surprised by the extent of his uselessness. Seems that under pressure he sides with the other doctors. Even when the problem is one of the doctors is a bully whose behaviour is appallingly unprofessional and doing a great deal of damage to the organisation - not merely to the people I have mentioned but more broadly.

Trixy - oh yes, I am prepared to resign, can't wait in fact! Such a shame as it's an organisation that started off with huge goodwill, and wants to do really good stuff. And there are lots of lovely, talented, clever people who have an enormous amount to contribute. All being wound up and obstructed by this one git, though.

Thats a shame Edam. Sadly I've come across a few doctors who think they are superior to the rest of the population and behave like twats, because they think no-one will challenge them because they are a doctor.

Sadly you are right. There are good 'uns though - and plenty of them in this organisation. Just a few wrong 'uns and a culture where even the good won't support patients who challenge the bad ones.