narcissism and codependance, any one know about it?

[hopefull55]

im cheerfully trying to save my marriage by having a good look at my own behaivour while on a trial separation from my husband. has anyone come across these terms before and foudn them helpful/ true/ load of crap? i am obsessed with reading kim and steve coopers web site as its really making sense but i am also questioning my sanity a bit as might be overhopeful about changing an abusive relationship

www.fightbusters.com/Narcissism_and_Codependence.html

but i am pretty sure im something to do with the behaviour somewhere and really trying to face it, not take the blame, but see if i can do things differently too.

anyway jsut wondered.

oh i suppose i should add i had a violent bisexual adulterer for a father and an angry alocholic depressive valium addicted mum and my brother (bless him) had adhd and emotional difficulties as a child and is now a tetraplegic following a bike accident. so im sure that will have something to do with it, just not sure what.

I'm not sure about the actual topics, and will leave that to those who know what they're talking about, but I would advise caution. I think it's very easy to read about something and find ways that it relates to/describes you. Much like people do with horoscopes.

Huge kudos for what you're trying to do, though. I hope your husband is doing the same, and I wish you lots of luck.

Hi I have a little experiene with narcissim, if you suspect you have it then you cannot diagnose and treat yourself, ask your GP for a refferal, well done on coming this far.

Are you saying you think you have a personality disorder? Or that you have a co-dependency with Narcissists?

Your very challenging background could easily have led to either - you didn't receive the stability, love, attention and respect that a child needs for healthy emotional development. Poor you, and your brother :(

It's sort of usual for boys to internalise their father's behaviour as their own, and for girls to 'become' their mothers. This is not ALWAYS the case, and anyway the life lessons learned from both parents shape the child.

Your potted history might suggest that, in trying to achieve some sort of worthwhile childhood for yourself & DB, you may have learned many subtle and effective lessons about living with angry, self-obsessed, delusional people. This kind of becomes your raison d'etre - leading to a lifetime of unconsciously seeking, and responding to, people with problems similar to your parents'. That happened to me, as well as to many others. You'll find some of us on the Stately Homes threads.

Have you tried reading any books about toxic parents and how they impact on your adult life? One of the classics is Susan Forward's "Toxic Parents", and I'm a big fan of John Bradshaw's work. There's also a very good book on co-dependency, "Co-Dependent No More" by Melody Beattie.

Sorry, I meant to add: There is something called inverted narcissism. It's basically a co-dependence on Narcissists. I haven't seen the website you referred to but, if they use that term, it relates to what I wrote above.

hth?

thanks all for posts, much appreciated. gosh ageinggrace that was quite an eye opener. first of all, no i dont think either of us has a personality disorder as such but more it seems that we both have elements of the definitions i read about narcissism and codependancy in our relationship with eachother. a dance between the two, as ive read it called.

what you said about subtle and effective lessons as well as what my raison detre could be have hit chords. it feels that really makes sense to me. ill read the books you recommend but can you let me know how you got to this point of self-reaslisation? is there anything more i can do? i have got the number of a psychodynamic therapist who specialises in relationships and am about to call in the next few days (chose a male deliberately as already thinking i would like to be reparented by a father, crazy half-baked thoughts), but could you make a more specific recommendation if you think it would help? generally in awe of your perceptive and wise post, and very sorry to hear it happened to you too.

There's some long threads on here if you do a search in mumsnet talk for the subjects you are asking about. Google CODA, they have information about the state of being and support groups

Thanks for your reply! I'm glad it struck a chord (though obviously not glad it was there to be struck).

Interesting what you say about your 'folie a deux' with H. Early Victorian psychiatrists noticed this amongst couples where the man was personality disordered. The wife would be referred for treatment, the doctor would interview the husband and send the wife away to a spa for several weeks. Lo and behold, she'd come back cured - until she went home and it all started again. It does take two to tango. Without the 'training' your childhood gave you, you wouldn't have been open to a relationship like this - those rollercoaster adrenaline cycles aren't appealing to 'normal' people but, if you grew up with them, your body is actually adapted to the hormonal rollercoaster and your brain is addicted! Weird, huh.

My epiphany (haha) came when my second husband left, citing emotional abuse. The thing is, I WAS abusive. But our perceptions of how that happened differed wildly. Even then, I had a sense that I behaved the way I did in reaction to him. I couldn't put my finger on it, nor could I explain exactly why I was so utterly devastated by the end of a poor marriage. I got my first therapist and it's all been a fascinating learning process since then.

I wanted a male therapist, too! Fortunately for me, the male I'd booked in with went away so I landed the very fabulous Tracey, who remains one of the best I've ever seen. I don't think the gender matters that much, tbh; it's more a question of getting to know yourself. Reading will help, as well as your therapy. I do hope you gel with him, and all goes well for you :)

Post as much as you like. Lots of regulars here are making similar journeys.

Hello, I am on this path too.

I found the Kim Coper website useful at first, but, I moved on quite quickly as I discovered more about it. They are essentially selling stuff. :(

I had narc parents, my "mother" definitely has a cluster b PD. Her GP became so frustrated by her that he told me, he shouldn't have done of course, but there it is, he's human too.

My sister's are both drug and alcohol user's as are their partners. Their children are well on the way to repeating all the same patterns. :(

I was the scapegoat and have had HUGE co dependency problems throughout my life.

My GP referred me for therapy and I had two lots on the Nhs. I had inner child therapy, which is the John Bradshaw stuff that Grace mentioned. This is where you re parent yourself. The point of being able to do that is there ceases to become a need for anyone else, for anything. It's very tough, but it works. :)

On another positive note, my h and I are well on the way to mending our marriage, we separated for most of last year, but now live together again. He still has therapy, as lo and behold, his family are a complete mess, along stunningly similar lines.

I hope your therapy is a good experience for you.

hi - ag - thanks for the message and support - i will post more, this is only my second thread and its been quite moving for me to know that im not on my own.
tihoif - yes they are really arent they! i keep getting dragged in by the promotional emails telling me that i can bring peace and love to my home if i just spend 30 pounds on a download from them....
im sorry to hear about your difficult family. its not easy and it sounds like you are doing amazingly. in fact i am really inspired that things are working between you and your husband - that is what i would like for me and mine, but he doesnt seem to think he needs to change much. i would like us both to go for individual therapy. i wonder if he is personality disordered, or has bi-polar but he certainly displays tendancies of what ag described - angry, self-obsessed and delusional to boot. but he is also kind and loving and i am difficult too.
inner child therapy sounds good - how do i convince my gp to refer me? they dont seem to keen on referring me for much!
thanks so much for the support.

Trying not to lumber you with too much at once, hopefull! For you, inner-child work will help you to develop a secure inner core (you probably understand what I mean by that). This will, in turn, enable you to keep your emotional balance in your dealings with DH. I'm not pretending it won't be hard. But it is, emphatically, worthwhile. As an incentive, I started seeing a difference in my exchanges with XH after just three sessions!

If you like the sound of the psychodynamic therapist you contacted, then raise the wider issue - as you now see it - with him. Psychodynamics can be brilliant for 'ubottling' stuff. If, after some time with him, you decide to pursue a more reflective style of therapy, then you'll be clearer about what kind of help you want next :)

Try your GP for a referral. IME you have to lay things on really thick for the doctor - don't lie, but focus on the bad stuff. You might also be interested in Womens Aid's Freedom Programme. Apparently they vary a lot, but I know thisis gained a lot from hers. They're free.

"can you let me know how you got to this point of self-reaslisation? is there anything more i can do?"

it's a journey OP and it sounds like you've started it. It takes a long time really... to unravel all that shit you/we grew up in, to heal and change. It is rewarding though painful to face and it takes time.

Everybody's 'journey' is different of course, bcs we're all different and work with different people and material; but the themes generally gel at some point. I am a great believer in support groups - meeting others who are on the same journey, encouraging and challenging one another along the way. Plus reading and reading, research; applying it, seeing if it works. Plus therapy too.

If you mean you are looking for things to be sorted by blah date - well, it doesn't work like that tbh. I had a friend who recognised she had depression and said 'right, I'm giving this 6 months and by then I expect it to be sorted'. erm - maybe it's good to have a timeframe but often that's impossible. Doing this type of work is like turning around an ocean liner - it takes time. Are you looking at a timeframe so you can say that by blah, me and DH will be ready to get back together?

helllo,
I have recently been reading up on narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder due to having been in a relationship with someone who displays some of these characteristics and has been doing so since our relationship began 8 years ago.
I have also started reading about codependency and have seen that I display some of these characteristics also.
I am not sure that either of us compeltely fit these moulds but there is definitely something there.
The main and recurring problems over the years have centered around emotional distance, intimacy issues, inappropraite anger and sometimes rage over little things - but mostly it is the silent treatment/ coldness and occassional outbursts - usually when the silent treatment is challenged and that brings us back into the same situations again - usually every 3 to 6 months.
I have had problems setting boundaries and sticking to them - I guess if I hadn't I wouldn't still be here 8 years on. But I am getting better.
I am looking for practical help as to how to move on and stop these unhealthy behaviour patterns. I am looking for ways in which to do this without losing the relationship completely. Is that impossible? Some of the info I have read about narcissism say the only answer is to leave a narcissist. And going by some of the things I have read, I am displaying signs of codependency just by looking for ways in which we can move on and transform our relationship. It seems to me that most of the information out there says I must leave and there is no other option?
In terms of certain styles of therapy and being able to talk openly about what has been going on between us is there anything in particular anyone can recommend?

You could look up the work of Wendy Behary. She has suggestions for people who can't leave

I will look her up.
Thank You.

You might also be interested in a well-known paper about co-narcissism written by Alan Rappoport. If you search for that, it should come up easily.