Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Another argument with dh - sorry - long

17 replies

ostracized · 03/02/2011 04:09

I don't exactly know what to say because I am the one who started this argument with dh....
Basically, we are emotionally distant with each other - we talk about the kids really and that's it. No hugging, kissing etc.... though we can be lighthearted and friendly at times. Last time we slept with each other was the 29th of December - we had about a week of getting on well at Christmas because we made up after a long period of not talking to each other (or rather, him not talking to me) after another argument two months prior to that (h comes from a family of serial sulkers).

You know when you have been in your own "relationship" for so long that you can no longer see the wood for the trees or whether what you would like is a "fair" thing to want. I would like a relationship where it is normal to hug each other on a daily basis and also to talk intimately about things which bother me, I find difficult, that are making me sad (not necessarily about partner, just about life in general) - where I could also listen to the other person. Where I felt really liked and understood, where there was laughter, and where we could occasionally go out of an evening. Dh is very loyal to the "family" and works very hard (in fact something of a workaholic, on laptop every night from about 8pm to 2am developing websites and at the weekend a lot as well - during the day he does things like fitting out shops, house renovations, and also runs an internet based furniture company which gets a few orders each week - he has a couple of guys who help him with this but basically he is self-employed and works very hard).
However it is clear that all his emotional attachment and love goes to the children (3 of them, 9, 6 and 4 years old). I feel sad about this but carry on okay normally. I feel mostly sad when I see how nice he is to the kids because the rest of the time not sure how much I like him anyway. He has a giving lighthearted side, but also an intolerant, bad tempered, sarcastic one which I don't like. If it was just the two of us then I'm guessing we could kindly and also quite sadly I suppose say that it's time to move on (we've been together for 15 years, married for 9).

My periods have started coming closer together and somewhat erratically so am guessing I might be "peri-menopausal" - I have just turned 42 (note - found it necessary to say "just turned"). I have been feeling very sad about this but it's not something I would speak to dh about. (Anyway, have now got my head around it and am taking health related measures which I think will help, don't look after myself very well and want to give myself as much chance to be youthful and strong, as possible).

What I'm trying to say is that it's when I feel sad or down that the lack of closeness between dh and I bothers me hence my lashing out today.

The other night I lay in bed next to him (we don't often sleep in the same bed) and as usual his arms are glued firmly to his sides - he makes no effort to cuddle or be close. So I went and slept somewhere else as being in the same bed as someone who can never be bothered to give you a hug, is soul destroying.

Then today I was telling h that youngest dd would like to be blonde like her friend. Dh very dismissively said that the friend was "RUBBISH" and that dd was much better. For several reasons this really annoyed me. He has never really been into the idea of this friendship as I think he thinks I am the one who has "created" it. Doesn't matter to him that it is this little friend who has really helped dd settle in reception. I don't think he particularly likes the friend's mother because she hasn't paid him very much attention when she has been at our house and does not like the way she talks about herself a lot. However, I like her, she is kind and caring, and I enjoy listening to what she has to say. It is true that she is one of these people who like to be the "centre of attention" but not in a bad way - she is bright and interesting and funny anyway. (Talking about friend's mother at this point.) He would also like me to concentrate more on some of dd's other friends who are not english (h himself is Indian and had a hard time when he came to this country as a ten year old so the whole "blonde" thing probably sets off a lot of issues for him). So basically he kind of dismisses this little friend and what annoys me about this is that she is only a small child and by dismissing her he is also negating anything I might have said to him about how much dd likes her and how much to a certain extent, this friend has helped her settle at school.

Anway, if you are still reading at this point, I give you a medal. So when dh said the friend is "RUBBISH" I'm afraid I lost it a bit and said I found that offensive and reiterated how much of a support to dd friend has been. Also that I thought h often talks and thinks as if he is in the "gutter" Blush - but I do think that he often says very rude and things about people or situations.

So dh tried to retreat behind laptop saying something sarcastic about how I was going to start crying but I kept on and all this other stuff about the relationship came out (from my side) - that I didn't just want to talk about the kids - that I found it all very superficial - that I had more stuff going on in my mind (though I actually don't know if this is true - have spent so many years worrying about our relationship that I actually think the only two things I could talk about at any great length are the kids or how crap my marriage is) - that it was okay but what would happen if either of us was ever very ill? Anyway it is probably at this point that he told me to f* of s** off and threw back in my face the state of the house. The mess in the house has for years and years been a huge issue - it is better now that all three kids are at school but it is still not what you would call a tidy house and dh REALLY REALLY resents this, to the point of obsession I think. He told me I do nothing - when I pointed out that I was folding socks together as we spoke, he copied the gesture of folding socks in a horrible way and said what was that??? When I pointed out that somebody has to do it he said it had taken me 15 years to get to that point. It is true that clothes used to be everywhere and it is better now. So I asked him if hyothetically the whole house were spic and span (he thinks all my responsiblity, I think not and told him this) would he start talking to me (ie properly) [because I have always had the impression, and he gave that impression today as well, that any problems he has with me are to do with untidiness in the house] and he said "no". So I asked him when was I going to get what "I" wanted and he didn't answer. Anyway, it ended as usual with me crying and saying we should get separated (he said do what you like) and telling him I can't spend the next 20 years with someone who thinks I'm a worthless piece of ..... . He then went out and we haven't spoken since. I said a couple of things to him tonight and he was very very short. Don't know if this is the beginning of another long silence. In a way don't care but in another way don't think I could emotionally take it.
I don't want to be "unloved" by my partner till the day I die. Someone considered not worth it because they have been messy / are at times, messy. There is a massive pile of sawdust in our conservatory which he created a few weeks ago when he was doing something with the big saw and apparently I should be clearing that up??? Should I?
Should also add that money is also an issue between us and I have not always behaved impeccably in this regard.
Any thoughts (not worded harshly please - couldn't cope)? Realise this might all sound childish - it seems unreal to me in a way.

OP posts:
comixminx · 03/02/2011 04:26

Oh dear! It all sounds very hard and uncomfortable. I don't think you are being unreasonable to want a relationship that works very differently to the one you're in, at all. I also don't think that it's at all reasonable that you should be chastised like that for the state of the house! You've been looking after three children, presumably doing massive amounts of it by yourself if he sees the earning work as being his part to play? But he could all along have one less work and done more round the house, if he was that bothered.

Need to put DD back in bed after her feed now so must go, but I did get to the end and didn't want to leave it unreplied-to...

robberbutton · 03/02/2011 05:19

I read it all! I'm so sorry for you, it sounds dreadful. My H was treating me in a similarly horrible way a few months ago (very snappy, cold, physically distant, couldn't talk to him about anything) but it turned out he was having am affair. Hopefully that's not the case here, but in one way it was good to discover that it was something from outside us poisoning the relationship, as it didn't mean we had reached the end of the road and didn't love each other any more.

I don't know what your H's problem is, but it sounds like he has some big ones. It doesn't sound like he is being much of a husband at all. How could you show him you mean business and can't go on like this? Would setting the wheels in motion for a trial separation have any effect? Is there anyone, friends or family, who can talk to him about the way he's treating you?

robberbutton · 03/02/2011 05:29

Also, if the best thing a man can do for the children is love their mum, then he is definitely NOT being a great dad to them. They will be affected by how you are and how your relationship is. Don't give him this "amazing dad" stuff, his behaviour is damaging them too.

How was he brought up? What does he believe/expect a woman's role to be? Are there cultural differences? I realised recently how much my H is affected by the fact his parents' house was/is always spotless, and he subconsciously expects the same and can't relax if it's not. But he's not unreasonable about it and does a lot around the house (at least, since trying to repair our relationship he is! Hmm )

TimeToStartACHEEKYDiet · 03/02/2011 09:01

Bloody hell i could cry for you myself :(

Ignorant piece of shit he is.

I wouldnt clean the sawdust up either, you didnt make the mess, its HIS mess.

Is there anywhere you could go for a week or whatever to have a break and let him reaslise just how much work you do. Maybe your mothers, sisters, friends

Hope your ok?

Think you could do with a {{{HUG}}}

StuffingGoldBrass · 03/02/2011 10:53

I remembered your name and went back and had a look at your other threads, Ostracized. Your H is still a shit, then. He isn't going to change because he is a man who hates women.

BelleBelicious · 03/02/2011 11:08

Ostracized. How horrible for you.

Has he always been this repulsive to you? Is there something other than a cold, sexist, vindictive man lurking underneath?

You sound lovely, and one positive is that he sounds like a good father, so if you divorce, he will probably still be good to children.

He does sound like he has lots of issues, but that doesn't mean you are his punch bag (and at the moment, that's what it sounds like). He doesn't seem to like or care about you at all. Honestly, I would be very worried about one of my friends in a relationship like this. I fear that if he won't/can't change, he will grind you down until there is nothing left of you.

imright · 03/02/2011 11:16

Reading your post reminds me of a freind of mine, her husband is not horrible to her, but is very emotionally detached no hugging or anything like that. I am at a loss as what to advise her also as she has three children.

Your husband was out of order, in being very horrible about a young child. That is so unnecessary.

Do you have family, that you can turn too? Have you a close friend you can condfide in?, I know it's difficult as sometimes, women don't want to tell the families 'what is going on' as they can throw it back in your face'.Has your husband always been so emotionally distant or is this a new thing?
If I could sit next to you I would give you a big, big, hug. Don't worry many women are in exactly your position. Why don't you get professional advice on how you stand? You have three children to consider, and they seem to be treated very well by your husband.
You of course must make a decision,otherwise you will be continually unhappy and surely this effects your children.
Please keep your chin up!Smile

imright · 03/02/2011 11:19

I agree with bellebelicous he will grind you down and make you lose confidence. Don't allow that to happen!

BelleBelicious · 03/02/2011 11:26

SGB - I haven't looked at the other threads, but there is definitely something about this man's behaviour that is really odd - unnecessarily spiteful and cold.

A friend of mine recently split up with a man, who never showed any interest in her, or gave her affection and they rarely had sex. He was also very good to the children. She has since confided in me that she found things on the computer that made her think he might be gay - but they both come from a culture where he could not accept that fact.

Now, I'm not jumping to any conclusions here - but the husband's attitude seems to be the same. It's like the very existence of a wife is a problem for him and if she were replaced by a robot who cleaned the house perfectly, he would be really happy.

O - I can't tell you what to do, but please take care of yourself and be assured that your husband is being cruel and cold towards you. big hug.

kepler10b · 03/02/2011 11:30

it sounds like you both have resentments in this relationship. do you want to make it work do you think? if not then start making plans to seperate because things will not improve without some really concerted effort.

if you do, why don't you work together on making the house tidier? living in mess can be very stressful. it can add to the mental chaos and make home feel like less than a relaxing place. but you both need to get into a routine to make it work. how many hours do you each spend doing housework do you think?

then while you are sorting that out together yyou can try for some closer time.

you need to start thinking and acting as a team rather than opponents.

BelleBelicious · 03/02/2011 11:33

kepler - i would be amazed if this guy does ANY housework. He works every day and then is on his laptop from 8 - 2a.m in the evening and then works weekends.

If I'm wrong and he mops the kitchen floor and cleans the toilet in between, then I stand corrected. But he's still a twat for speaking to his wife that way.

BEAUTlFUL · 03/02/2011 13:02

OP, do you have a job? If not, how are you filling the hours when the kids are at school?

ostracized · 04/02/2011 02:11

Thanks for all your replies and I'm sorry I haven't answered sooner.

To answer some questions: dh does quite a lot of the cooking at the weekend - he enjoys it and cooks nice food. Sometimes during the week too. But I often have to make different things for one or more of the kids so we are both doing stuff in the kitchen - mine is of a more functional "kids will eat it" basic nature. Occasionally of a morning he will fill the dishwasher. Once every blue moon he will mop the floor downstairs - but I never do this so it's not like I am doing it the rest of the time. Then on top of that I suppose there is the diy type stuff which occasionally comes up. Plus working outside the home or on websites so he does work hard in lots of ways. There is no denying that the house is not tidy and that I have an issue with stuff - not being able to get rid of some toys from when the kids were younger etc... However I don't think it's the terrible thing that dh seems to think it is, and yes, if we worked as a team rather than as "opponents", then everything would be doable.

Today might be a good example of why he thinks I do little (and I suppose that by this he means "in the house") - in chronological order I got up and got three kids ready for school (usual stuff - clothes, breakfast, bookbags, lunch boxes), then went and did my volunteering there (at their school but not in any of their classes) which I do two mornings a week as am doing course to become teaching assistant (am having doubts about this after what I saw happen in class today with a supply teacher and some kids behaving really badly but that's another story). In the afternoon I was going to take ds to the speech therapist which would have taken two and a half hours but that was cancelled. So I went home and ate the food which dh had come home and made. Then went to my sister's to supposedly study but ended up on the phone to a friend instead. Went to school to pick two out of three kids up. Came home and gave them some snack. Dh came home in the middle of this so I left dd with him and other dd and I went back out to collect ds and friend from drama - took friend home (very close by) and brought ds here. Gave ds some food. TV was on - then off and we hung out a little. Then kids had proper dinner (with TV on again - TV is a bit too prominent in our lives). We did some reading. Helped middle dd have her shower and other kids get changed into pjs. Lay down with two dds (at the moment sleeping on the same double futon) and as happens many nights, fell asleep there and am now up at 1.36am. Sorry, I know this is a really boring account of my day but just to say that housework does seem to figure very low down on the list. On days when I do more I will be able to concentrate mainly on the kitchen and living area and that exhausts me. Last weekend I cleaned the bathroom and that is looking really nice but to do the whole house seems an impossible feat. Still I know other people who manage so that is probably not true.

Just to answer other individual questions:

Beautiful - no I don't have a job as yet but am hoping to find one as a teaching assistant next academic year. When I am volunteering and get a small taste of what it would be like to work again, I feel really happy so if I do manage to find a job then that will be great. There is lots of competition for teaching assistant posts but we'll see.

I don't think dh is gay or having an affair though I sometimes wish he would fall for someone so that our stalemate could be broken (sorry, don't mean to be flippant and actually not sure how I would feel if it really happened). I think culturally he does have certain expectations yes, which are probably subconscious. More to do with the fact that he doesn't have to show me any affection particularly (he was not like this at the beginning of the relationship but that is eons ago) and that it is normal for man and wife to kind of be functional with each other. I suppose I am the one who first stopped regularly sleeping in the same bed as him when ds was a newborn and I couldn't cope with feeds and snoring at the same time! I suppose it is since then that we have become increasingly distant and of course now the kids are getting all the hugs and physical affection. He thinks this is fine as a long time ago when I asked him who (meaning an adult) would hug me if he didn't, he said the kids would.

Keep on forgetting that it is only this year that youngest dd is in reception that I have actually had more time - it's been pretty full on until this point - well gradually getting less full on as children went to school but even last year will dd in nursery until 11.45 was pretty busy. I miss that anyway, having a child at home - it was a lovely time.

Think a trial separation would be a good idea (though traumatic) but there is nowhere to go really. Only my sister lives close by, but in a small flat - plus she would go barmy if I descended on her.

Reading all this back I feel as if I have written the most boring post on the planet! The friend I was talking to today said that probably dh was closed and uncompromising - she doesn't know him apart from meeting a couple of times, but I think she is oddly right. Boredom is an issue for me too. The world is such a big place with so many interesting people in it and I don't want to be sat on the sofa every evening with someone who couldn't really care if I was there or not. Who occasionally says something from behind the laptop and who if I talk to him will respond only if not busy either talking to someone else online about websites (he contracts out some of the work) or doing bits of the sites himself. So in that way he's in charge of when the communication happens which annoys me. Plus the TV is generally on too and I often get out the other laptop and browse the internet, so we are like Mr and Mrs screened out. Contrarily however I am not sure how much I would want to just sit face to face and just talk anyway as really feel that I know everything he is going to say and am bored. He probably feels the same way about me.

The other main thing that bothers me is that he never says anything nice about me so you are left kind of feeling pointless other than in your function as parent - both dds say lots of nice things and ds is affectionate. Then I think maybe at 42 I am too old and past the man saying anything nice stage?

OP posts:
ostracized · 04/02/2011 12:31

Sorry, just bumping my own post so that the people who answered know that I answered them (whether they want to read another essay is another question!).

OP posts:
loves2cycle · 04/02/2011 18:57

I feel so sad for you ostracized as you seem so utterly stuck. You come across as someone who thinks they have no options.

There seems very little love between you both but loads of love, affection, pride, fun maybe between you and your children. There also seems to be love between yourchildren and your DH. But you seem totally unable to imagine different family set-ups.

Why? Why does separating not seem like an option for you? Could you bring yourself to 'flesh' out the image and then play with it in your mind? Just to feel what it would be like. Perhaps even document your findings and feelings on your thread as a way of testing the image and getting feedback from others.

I would try the fleshing out bit by seeking professional advice from CAB and a solicitor. Your DH doesn't need to know, nor does anyone else in RL but I think it might help you to see that you do have options, you are not stuck, or only stuck by yourself.

There is no way you should have to put up with your DH treating you like this. I remember your other thread. You deserve to be loved and have your children grow up in a home where love, respect, affection and kindness are the dominant emotions. Not belittling each other and other people.

ostracized · 06/02/2011 03:48

Thank you for your message loves2cycle - how are you?
Yes I do feel stuck and kind of trapped, but I don't know if I shouldn't be making the best of things and accepting the fact that dh is uncommunicative etc... and has a side I don't like - as when thinks ok (albeit superficial), they are ok, if not emotionally intimate. Having chosen someone who has his characteristics, and had children with him, I should be making the best of it maybe and not trying to pull things apart.
After all an environment where the parents laugh about the things the kids have done and said to each other (even if they don't talk about a great deal else - work maybe) has to be better than the one which I have kind of created this time by starting the above argument. The sulking on dh's part is there but not as bad as last time and I don't think will last for ages.
Probably loads of people are in functional / almost sexless marriages but still make them work?
I seem obsessed with the idea of meeting someone else somewhere in my head but surely this is just selfish / immature fantasizing?
(or some kind of mid-life crisis?).
I know people make separations work, but the idea seems absolutely terrifying.

OP posts:
loves2cycle · 06/02/2011 08:43

You are up early ostracized - do you live in a different timezone or maybe having trouble sleeping? Thanks for asking, I'm doing fine - our couple counselling has, and is, helping us enormously.

The justification you give for staying together (who am I to rock the boat when it's good much of the time) does not take account of your needs. Maybe you need to be treated as an equal, to have your views listened to, to be treated with respect infront of the children, to be cuddled and shown affection and to have intimacy with your partner. If you do have needs such as those - those being what most people would consider normal and necessary even to be fulfilled, could you envisage a way of having them met in your current marriage?

From what you describe, it doesn't seem like your needs are being met or that you have any chance of having them met in the future. Your DH's emotions (the sulking etc) dominate entirely, not surprising that you fantasize about meeting someone else.

Do youhave any friends that are single parents? Maybe that would make it easier to envisage? I don't know what to suggest because I fear you will continue being stuck in this marriage and that seems so sad and such a waste of you.

If you really can't imagine addressing this with your DH, through counselling, and you can't think about splitting, your going to have to reduce your expectations of what he can provide for you. That would really be very sad.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page