ending abusive marriage - long sorry

[geministar]

hi, new here. would be grateful for honest advice.

married 4.5 years, in relationship 7 years, 2 kids 5 and 3

the last 3 years since birth of youngest my husband has become abusive. before this to there were verbal put-downs but i didn't really notice.
3years ago this escalated to name-calling, shouting, swearing, sulking (intermittently)and constant criticism. I cried alot and became anxious but put it down to post-natal depression and didn't really tell anyone.i lost my self-esteem

There were 3 episodes when he got phyical and I got minor injuries (2 bruises and a cut) After the last one 10 months ago I recognised what was happening, told people and confronted him). I went to a counseller, then finally got him to come but we didn't talk about physical abuse as he was ashamed but talked about drinking and verbal abuse.

Things got better and he has not touched me again but shouting, jealousy and some verbal abuse continued albeit infrequently. I felt he hadn't really changed and confronted issues and asked for a separation. He has moved out now, stopped drinking, and is seeking help. it turns out he is a classic abuser (I didn't know until now that he had a horrible child hood when his dad drank and hit his mum regularly). He has obviously copied this behaviour.

Whilst i know understand the reasons for this behaviour, I have worked hard to regain my confidence, career and friendships and feel I can manage on my own . I think he is really making an effort to change now but I'm not sure if I want to take the risk of this ever happening again and my children witnessing this behaviour and copying it later. My head says its over, never take him back.

however he was lovely today when he came to help with the kids and is showing real effort to change and going to counselling and briefly I wanted him back and believed he was really changing. Then when he left i felt fine and relieved to be on my own without the uncertainity of his mood swings.

what to do? give him one more chance (heart, guilt , for kids) or stick with my head and now i've finally made the break go through with it and start again on my own

My heart tells me that if you took him back he would find it too easy to fall into his old ways of behaving. But this time he would want to make sure you couldn't get rid of him. Sorry

If he is genuinely making an effort, then good on him, it will help him be a good co-parent with you and a better dad.

If, in 2 years time, he is a totally reformed character, and has been living and behaving as such for that amount of time, then why the hell not.

He has not had the time to make more than suface changes I'm afraid, also remember he will be on best behaviour hoping to get back in the family home and 'get back to normal' (aaargh!)

I would agree with Nemofish. I think this lovely behavior fits in with the classic cycle of abuse though? I don't have any experience of abuse but I'm sure that's something I've read many times on MN.

You know in your heart you are doing the right thing as you felt relieved once he had left.

Keep on going, it sounds like you're doing a great job.

He might change but it will take lots and lots of work and counseling on his side. I would say it would damage his recovery (to say nothing of yours!) to let him back.

As I said I don't know much about abuse so I'm sure there will be someone along shortly to correct me with far more knowledge.

Guilt is a useless emotion. Sod feeling guilty; he never felt at all guilty when he was abusing you did he?. This too was learnt behaviour on his part which in itself is deeply rooted. It will therefore take far, far more than a few counselling sessions.

Listen to your head, not your heart here.
Your head is where your brain cells are after all. He has put you all through more than enough and you've all been dragged down with him as well.

Re your comment:-
"Then when he left i felt fine and relieved to be on my own without the uncertainity of his mood swings".

Think that last sentence says an awful lot actually. Remember that if you waiver.

Re the children as well, you are teaching them that violence of whatever sort is not something their mother should put up with. You taught your children a valuable lesson in getting away from him.

Hi,
So sorry to hear that you are in this situation, and well done for separating, that was incredibly brave of you.

You could have, word for word, been describing my marriage, which I ended nearly two years ago.You are definitely in a very abusive relationship and the victim of Domestic Violence. I'm so sorry.

To be honest, abusive partners rarely, if ever, change. It is a form of deeply controlling behaviour, and is usually so deeply ingrained that it can only be overturned by specialist counselling for abusers, through an organisation called Respect (can google them) and they will list courses in your area. I would doubt his ability to change unless he completed one of these courses and /or had some pretty intensive Psychotherapy (not counselling, which would probably make him worse).

He has to be nice to you for periods of time, as otherwise there is no way you would stay with him; it's part of the mechanism of abuse, and is a deliberate tactic on his behalf rather than genuine loving behaviour. I'm sorry, but he knows exactly what he is doing - I assume he doesn't treat his colleagues or friends this way? Unless he is treating everyone in his life the way he treats you, then he has control over his behaviour and making deliberate choices.

Marriage, living together or having children are classic triggers for abusive behaviour, as most abusive partners want to feel that you are in a position where you won't/can't leave, before really opening up with their behaviour.

Can I suggest you read the following books to start with:

Why Does He Do That - Lundy Bancroft
Power and Control; why charming men make dangerous lovers - Sandra Horley

I would also phone Women's Aid for advice and support; they are lovely and very helpful and can reassure and give advice about what your options are.

The books are both on Amazon - so sorry but have to do nursery run so don't have time to do a longer post, or links. All your instincts are right - be brave, take care and remember that you are worth so so so much more than the way he is treating you.

Will check in later to see how you are.

I think friendly co-parenting is definitely the way forward. I am really impressed how you managed to extricate yourself from your marriage and become independent. I wish you all the best :)

You've done so well. I agree, personally I wouldn't go back. I think it would just be too exhausting always being braced for him to lapse again.

Thank you all for your replies and support. it helps me to clarify things.

I just have to stay strong and resist him when he is being nice short-term.
and for once look after number 1 (and little 2 and 3) and not him, and think of the long-term picture. To be honest even if he changes, i dont think i can ever forget what happened and be with him

Luckily things have not been so scary in recent months following counselling ( although i feel the risk still remains)and that is how I was able to persuade him to leave.

At the moment he is co-operating. however, he is fixed on getting me to take thim back at some point. I fear when he realises I wont take him back this may change.

I hope he can find a way to co-parent and support his children so they have the loving relationship with his father he never had but realisticly i think I should prepare myself that he may not!

definitely set yourself a long long time scale for him to carry on being nice and friendly co-parent before ever considering anything else, say 12 months at least.

if he can keep it up - good!

and if he doesnt t- then you will know where you are.

maybe if you getting time off while he with DC, take time to go out, meet new people etc.

I'm in such a similar situation! Separated months ago but he still won't let go..behaves nicely for a while, I get confused and start to miss him and the good times then he loses the plot again and I know 100% that I've done the right thing...and we just go round and round in circles. I'm carrying so much guilt about our four children not having their dad at home..meanwhile he refuses to contribute financially at all, blames me for everything..it's incredibly hard to stay strong and focused and remember why you separated in the first place. I consider myself to be a reasonably intelligent person and yet I feel locked in this cycle and very, very stuck. I know if we were back together i'd be waiting for the next explosion, on eggshells all the time but I still question my decision at times and wonder if it could work....exhausting!!

Gemini I have been in your position though I never got up the strength to leave and endured 15 years of it. I admire your strength and courage.

I agree with all your other respondents, gemini, both about the cycle of abuse and about leaving it a good loooong time before you even begin to accept that he's honestly changing.

Like the others, too, I admire your focus :) Good for you (good for your DC, too). One thing that seems missing, so far, is your full engagement with your own life. Yes, this takes a while and you might benefit from some counselling later on to help. You're currently living in a sort of twilight between attached and independent. Totally understandable. But, please be aware of it.

If he ever manages to become convincingly open, egalitarian, tolerant & sharing - then both of you will be able to consider a new relationship together. Until then, you are the emotionally healthy adult who has a family, a career, a life - and he's the one considering his issues. As you know there's nothing you can do to change him, and your marriage is unsuccessful as created, please don't put yourself on hold 'just in case'. Life is short.

I agree with the others. Although abusers can change, most don't. It's far to soon to say if he's changed or if this is part of the cycle to get what he wants.

co-parent with him and live your drama free life without him, focus on that feeling of relief that you don't have to put up with his behaviour any more.

Geministar, please listen to your head. I spent 22 years in abusive relationship and finally got out over a year ago-at first, and now and again, ex is nice and co-operative and then suddenly when hes not getting the answers he wants he is verbally abusive again..I'm getting stronger though and know my way forward is without him. Listen to other threads and see how he is a few years down line-you've made this couragous move, don't take him back now as I belive you will never forgive yourself-good luck!

Good for him that he is now being a good parent.

Encourage that, and look back happily on the good times.

He hit you. Never any excuse for that. You can't risk your kids learning that behaviour, or believing it is forgiveable. It isn't.

Is he still paying a fair share - say what the CSA would ask him for? If not, ask him to up his payments - and see how nice he stays...

If he is, then that's fine. Keep it that way. With him in the kids life, and out of yours.

Oh, meandmyfour isn't that what the CSA is for to get deadbeat fathers to contribute. If he isn't contributing, he's a deadbeat, and you were right to be rid of him.

ahhhh! he's is driving me crazy. I feel he is reeally messing with my head space.

Bcause of him having access to the kids I still have to see him and as he is staying at a friends at the moment, he has to come to the house to see the kids which I thought would be fine. problem is every time he is here he wants to talk about us. He is not threatening but just really sad, sorry, begging , " cant you see how much i'm trying".

He stayed over when i was away overnight last week , then said he needed to use the computer to work and stayed another day and a half.. I went to my brothers with the kids for the weekend to get away. Once I was away I relaxed. I didn't hear from him till i got back when I said he could ring to speak to the kids.

However this turned into 2 long concersations about us while i was trying to get the kids tea because he wanted to come over to talk about us ( "how can i tell he is changing if we dont talk about us")I said no I'll see him at the counseller today. Half an hour later he turns up at the house!!! I was really upset. He is showing no respect for my boundaries. He then came round this morning to have a shower as the boiler is broken at his flat.

I know he is desperate and very hurt but I am losing sympathy. Ihave told him this isn't about him changing, it is about me healing and that after the final session at the couples counseller today ( i dont think its helping )I dont want to talk about us until i have been to some indiviual counselling and have healed from the abuse.
(i am reading Lundy Bancroft book which is very enlightening and now i realise just how abusive the relationship was)

I hope he listens but i am worried he wont.! any advice please?