Help - fairly new rellie, hit a hurdle, trying to sort

[Gibbous]

Namechanger here as so much of this shameful and sorry it's so long.

Ok so background: I?ve been seeing a guy since the middle of October. Things were going very well, and had been really building momentum, he had started wanting to see and talk to me lots and just after Christmas told me he loved me, that he was daydreaming about the great future we could have, really open, full on, lovely stuff, he was completely into me and acted besotted. I don?t think I felt treated better in any relationship, at that particular stage.

Then I sort of blew it. I?ve been under an enormous amount of stress with an unconfirmed diagnosis of a lump and being forced to seek a second opinion which has opened up all sorts of issues (unresolved grief mainly) with my mum dying from cancer in this area after medical negligence, and the realisation that no-one else is there for my son. One evening we were meant to be going out to a party, I was at the height of my anxiety, I?d allowed really terrible, dark thoughts to take over and I felt and looked terrible, I didn?t want to go, I felt tense and angry almost after a difficult week battling with the NHS, but didn?t want to let him down either (his ex had hated his friends apparently and wouldn?t go out with him anywhere so I wanted to prove willing), he was wonderful, when I tried to explain it away by saying I was simply having a confidence crisis he said he wanted to show me off.

At the end of the evening though alcohol and my foul mood got the better of me and I ended up picking a fight with him after the party about a minor matter but would not let it go, he explained (perfectly satisfactorily I later realised but I wasn?t listening at the time) and was going to go home as I was just being crazy and tearful about it so I persuaded him to come back to mine and promised I?d drop it. Then of course brought it up a few minutes later, so he went home. Cue countless calls and eventually a visit from me crying and pleading with him (oh, so, SO cringe) basically to keep me company for the rest of the night as I was struggling with all the stress so much. Although this has left me with slight issues, I honestly cannot blame him for refusing to entertain me while I was in such a psycho state.

Anyway we met a couple of days later, talked it through, I explained things and that this was out of character, and he said he wanted to carry on seeing me but was a bit wary now and felt perhaps he didn?t know me as well as he thought. I said that was fine but I didn?t want to end up going backwards, he answered no we?d go forwards but perhaps a bit more slowly.

That was a couple of weeks ago now and, unsurprisingly I guess, things have not been the same since. Contact is now minimal when before it was nearly every day, any text conversations have been started by me (although I certainly haven?t inundated him) and I have, if not arranged then at least part-instigated, plans for the two dates since the post argument Talk. These actually went very well, the first one he told me he loved me and had missed me, the second (last night) was a little more awkward to begin with because of a communication mix up and also a weird Chat conversation we?d had on Friday where he thought I was questioning his intentions again, mentioning the post-party incident, when I wasn?t (I was actually looking for a positive in something he?d said and fishing further but he thought I was digging around for stuff, I told him he had to stop letting the past ? meaning both in terms of what happened that night with me and his difficult ex ? colouring the present and the future) but I?m pretty sure we resolved that. During the evening I vaguely mentioned my son had been invited to a sleepover but not when. It?s actually this Saturday so I am unexpectedly free, although my son is now old enough so that I can go out for a couple of hours in the evening even when I do have him and I have done this with the bloke occasionally.

So to the present situation, I want to give this a chance although am becoming increasingly disheartened with his lack of effort. I feel if we are going to try to sort this we need to try and put this incident behind us. Anyway we said goodbye this morning. After making the moves over the past couple of weeks I now feel he should be the one to arrange the next date otherwise I am going to just reinforce this pattern.

So I really do not want to instigate the conversation about when we next see each other for the third time in a row, but should I be giving him a timeframe to broach that subject before I make other arrangements for this Saturday? I would have to actively ask around so it?s not a case of turning anything down for him, something I?d never do.

The last thing I want to do is to start game playing but neither do I want to end up making all the effort, especially if his heart is no longer in it, or just being at his beck and call. But I do want to give this a fair chance.

Sorry this is so long and complicated.

Gibbous. I don't know if it's time to call it a day, but the red flags are popping up all over the place as LMHF says. Not asking what your progress was - farking hell. I don't think he's on Team Gibbous.

On the other hand, most well people don't understand illness. And, to make a horrible generalisation, men are more likely than women to want to suppress medical intervention (look at the snoring thread as an example). He could be pretty scared of what it all means - not as much as you, however!

"I don't think I'd ever be allowed to be vulnerable" - written down, I think you see that isn't a defensible statement (by him). You could give him the benefit of the doubt, everyone has freakouts. Let's assume what he says about his ex is true (although it sounds like bollocks to me) he will be wary. But you have genuine shit to sort out. Either he's there or not.

I'm very sorry to hear about your mum, that sounds dreadful. Fingers crossed for your own outcome.

sounds like there's at least 3 people in this relationship tbh. I would take with a HUGE pinch of salt any stories about ex's. he got himself in that situation, it didn't happen to him when he was walking down the road minding his own business re he is either attracted to vulnerable women or he drove her to that . ah, so simplistic in human's heart...

I also think that the first stage of being in love can be quite frightening. he's thinking flowers/roses/show her off - you're thinking 'will he still love me tomorrow?' and pulled out all the stops as if to say 'ok, do you love me NOW? and NOW?', challenging him. he failed the challenge, clearly.

i'd be so sick of hearing about his ex if I were you - get over her already. these horror stories send a message: don't be like her! so you do everything you can not to be (y-a-w-n) and jolly well end up being pretty much the same. somehow.

he will be very very well aware that you are free this weekend so you don't need to nudge him about that. go out, ahve a good time. give him a few football fields of space for an entire football season, drop him from your heart (hard, I know). if he is worth his salt he'll be back. if not..

sorry about your health worries gibbous. he failed that test too tbh (big time)

You sound very high maintenance, OP, and your boyfriend is very quick to jump to the 'I love you' conversation. I'm not seeing anything terribly positive here, sorry.

"i'd be so sick of hearing about his ex if I were you - get over her already. these horror stories send a message: don't be like her! so you do everything you can not to be (y-a-w-n) and jolly well end up being pretty much the same. somehow."

Absolutely, all the positive comparisons he made actually made me feel uneasy because they felt more like a warning (I don't think that was intentional btw). And this is why I forced myself to go out that night, because I didn't want him to think I'd be unsociable too. He also said he couldn't watch a certain film with me as he'd watched it with her the day before he dumped her and it brought back bad memories. I hadn't asked him to watch it, just mentioned that I'd got the DVD and hadn't got round to seeing it. TMI. Oh and then he said he'd seen her from afar for the first time in a year since splitting and he'd had no emotional reaction, like the stomach lurching he was expecting, which was good. Apparently .

He also said when we had The Talk a couple of days after Psychoville that he was a bit wary now "but the good news is" he wanted to carry on seeing me. I wonder if he's milking the power and control tbh having not really had it prior. He is not your conventional great catch (please don't think me arrogant as the conventional minus points weren't issues to me but might be for a lot of people in their mid to late 30s, for example, crap job and not being able to drive, living in a rented room etc, general quite studenty lifestyle, personal grooming not great!) and there were a couple of minor glimpses of his own insecurity before then. Then he saw someone desperately needy begging him to stay with her that night as I was struggling with it all - not just my bad behaviour, but the stress of the illness etc (also being pre-menstrual for the first time since being put on the pill in case it was beneficial for my symptoms, don't know if this was a factor but I made him aware during The Talk).

Oh yes, and during the pleading (crrrringe) he asked what I'd have done before we got together when I needed company in such a crisis, who would I have gone to then? As if me turning to him for support in general was a no-no.

All supposition I guess, but it's irrelevant now. I've made the decision to finish it. Against all advice, I did text him, saying that I was just trying to plan my weekend as son was now having a sleepover on Saturday and was he about or not? (remember I hadn't mentioned which day before so this was reasonable given that he'd seemed to be texting fairly normally last night). I wanted to start making plans, whether he was involved or not, but more importantly, I guess I wanted to get to a point of clarity.

I got there. His reply said was that it was a workmate's leaving do on Saturday (fine), it was going to "start early and get messy" and he'd probably be smashed by 9pm. No "but I'd love to see you Friday/Sunday/Tuesday" (night when he knows my son goes to his dad), no "but if you're out maybe we could cross paths" (as we had arranged when he went out with his work for Christmas). Not even a sorry. No further arrangements at all. Zilch.

I think the crappiness of his behaviour is now superceding mine. I just replied saying "no probs" as I didn't want anything to look like a kneejerk reaction to his "just going out with my mates for a night, sheesh", but will suggest in a couple of days that we meet for half an hour soon to chat and just finish it civilly then. If he'd wanted time out - which is what he appears to be taking - he could have had it but on the one hand we're meant to be carrying on as before (and the first date since did seem back on track) and on the other I am just not getting anything from him. It's getting silly and I've had enough.

Oh and thank you everyone again for your replies.

Team Gibbous, love it! x

Gibbous I don't like the sound of him. I cannot believe how unsupportive he was, for someone who supposedly loved you?

Think you are definately too good for him, too real. He sounds rather selfish.

Upwards and onwards, eh? Next!

TBH, I'd put a bit more time into the period before you try to meet up with him.

Get used to living without him in your head, have a break, don't call him, text him or anything.

When he does finally call, then you can tell him that actually you are busy for a while and that you will call him.

You don't owe him an explanation, I don't want you getting emotional with him, I want to see you cool and detached.

He wasn't there for you and tbh is a pretty scary character, there seems to be something in the background that smells off to me.

I think Gibbous, you have had an awfully lucky escape.

Thanks PL and Hissy (great name btw!, I'm beginning to think you're both right. I think he needs the control. If he ended up treating his ex like this then I'm not surprised her behaviour was so bad.

I am sad, I do have some great memories and the saddest thing is they don't fit into this scenario as he firstly he seemed like a different person but more because it felt so full of hope then but I have to take them for what they are, great memories and that is all.

I also feel relieved.

LMHF, I won't get emotional, not too much anyway! And I've already started thinking of us as having finished, in my head it is so. There won't be contact now for a while, until I feel ready to meet and finally seal the box face to face. He may be just letting it fizzle but I prefer more definite closure. If he won't meet then I'm happy to let him know I think it's over anyway by phone or even text. The only thing I don't want is for him to arrogantly think I'm waiting on his call.

Oh and I also wonder if he's "testing" me, putting me way down on his priorities while his friends are rungs above (not this weekend but last) to see if I'll be strong enough to cope or react like his ex, who apparently stopped him going out with them. Apparently . But he's gone way too far.

Anyway, sorry again to go on and thanks, you guys - and actually the 'drunk and vile' thread which isn't quite the same but bears some similarities - have been so helpful.

blimey, I went from "you sound a bit high maintenance and he sounds quite sensible" to "uhoh" very quickly then. The more you say about him the more red flags pop up.

Witnessing your mother's death must have been horrendous for you gibbous, that experience would leave anyone badly affected.No wonder you buried a lot of emotional dynamite with your own lump issues and no wonder it blew spectacularly.

If you haven't had it, perhaps you should have some grief counselling in respect of the issues around your mum's death?

Whether he is some sort of headfuck type (odds on, from what you say) or not, finishing it now is probably the best thing to do.

Ok, so wanting to get closure on this asap, and also knowing I wouldn't if I got rid but still had a nagging feeling that maybe there was something he wasn't telling me that could justify his distant behaviour (I know, I know but I can't leave a single stone unturned), I texted to ask if there had been anything else bothering him.

He replied ?Huh?? so I said I just wanted to check if anything specific had come from me, that it?s fine if not although I thought we needed to talk and I?d contact him to arrange a time if that was ok with him.

He came back with: ?I?m confused as heck. Is this paranoia? Could be self fulfilling.?

So basically I?m not allowed now to check there might be something he hadn?t told me to explain his behaviour (before I dump his ass, but he doesn?t know that bit). It reads almost like a threat.

Seriously, no wonder his ex turned "mental".

Whoops sorry, didn't want to ignore your grief counselling suggestion MsBoogie, my friend also suggested this. We houseshared at the time it happened and she now says she was shocked at the way I didn't grieve back then but partied my way through it. So yes, I definitely think it's one to look into. Thanks.

gibbous, just read through your thread- he sounds horrible! How dare he threaten you with'could be self fulfilling'. what an absolute nob. please just end this relationship now. And 'the good news is' urgh! He sounds controlling and manipulative.

I agree you have had a seriously lucky escape. You are currently in a relationship with him - it's very rude and deliberately mean not to make plans with you when you get in touch like that. You deserve much better.

If he didnt like your behaviour he should have ended it - what he is doing now is cruel. And very unkind to not care about your medical situation.

Get rid - dont waste any more energy on having him in your life. He knows you are worrying/ concerned about his feelings towards you and he is wallowing in knowing that I'm afraid.

" I texted to ask if there had been anything else bothering him."

The old joke about woman thinking about relationship, man thinking about car came to mind here.

" He replied ?Huh?? so I said I just wanted to check if anything specific had come from me, that it?s fine if not although I thought we needed to talk and I?d contact him to arrange a time if that was ok with him."

"He came back with: ?I?m confused as heck. Is this paranoia? Could be self fulfilling."

Nope, he knows what this is about... this isn't even a bloke trying to avoid The Conversation. This is a bloke being a dick.

I agree with waterrat.

Thanks WR and OMC,

I hate the idea of not doing the right thing so it's reassuring I'm not being hard on him by wanting to simply finish things.

My last text to him was: "My paranoia? No, just making sure nothing I'd done recently had made you a bit reticent in initiating contact/arranging to see me, so it could be sorted if necessary."

So he can't even pretend not to know now what the issue is.

I guess the difficulty is the original incident did include an incredibly unreasonable (of me) accusation that he was using me, instigated by him being a bit tight with his rounds . I explained and apologised on the night and he later said he wanted to carry on seeing me but he's obviously on guard for more paranoid accusations (in fact he took something the wrong way the other day). However this blatantly isn't, it's a reasonable response (and a reasonable question) to his shoddy behaviour.

I'm leaving it a few days to ensure everything is clear and straight in my head then I'll arrange to meet so I can finish it properly. Short of him begging for forgiveness that is not going to change.

Why are you waiting. I dont know why you are not finishing this now.

maybe it's worth using this time to think hard about whether you were really happy with him before the argument took place. It sounds as though he is not a very nice man - and I wonder if you were trying to ignore those warning signs. If so, perhaps you need to be more confident that you deserve someone who you know is a good person, rather than just someone who is pouring out affectionate words while behaving in a way which triggers suspicions.

and I agree - finish it ASAP. You need to take control here - he is clearly being unkind and it's worrying that you say 'short of begging for forgiveness'. There is nothing that can make up for how he is behaving here.

Doesn't Saint Lundy of Bancroft say something about the man who compares his girlfriend favourably to his previous relationships, so she more or less has to prove she's not like the others?

I need to gather my strength, that's the main thing. If I go in and finish it now (and I think it only fair to at least attempt to do this face to face, two wrongs and all that) I may crumble. I know what I'm like, if I just take a few days to go over in my head how horrible all this has been and how crappy he has been it will strengthen my resolve no end. The begging thing was a bit TIC, it's not going to happen.

Yes I do need to be more confident. Much more so. High maintenance has been mentioned a couple of times, maybe so, but too willing to put up with crap is more accurate (which I realise can turn into high maintenance if resultant insecurites and need for reassurance are brought to the surface on a regular basis, but that hasn't happened since I was much, much younger.)

"Doesn't Saint Lundy of Bancroft say something about the man who compares his girlfriend favourably to his previous relationships, so she more or less has to prove she's not like the others?"

Yes, I mentioned here it was something that made me feel very uneasy when he was doing it as it felt like a bit of a warning.

Well tbh I think you're right, Gibbous, it was exactly that. Each single thing you've said about him is quite minor, but they are all niggling little things that add up to you being better off waving him a civil goodbye.

Although the not bothering to make an effort any more though isn't minor. It would have been ok of course if he'd explained maybe he wanted a few weeks time out as I'd have known what was going on. But he's gone from being full on before the incident to virtually nothing proactive since. I wasn't expecting it to go to how it was before straightaway, of course not, but meeting me some of the way would have been nice. It was necessary, really, to have got things back on track, no-one could do all the work of mending something like this on their own.

But yes, the rest on its own nothing to worry about. Actually I wouldn't even be questioning it if it wasn't for the aloofness now.

If you need time to think on it, try to make a list of all the things that made you uneasy all along - so you can see it's not just about this incident.

And yes, I think that 'high maintenence' is actually insecurity - and not having the confidence to set boundaries in a clear way without resorting to being over emotional.

I think that is how a lot of unpleasant abusive relationships start - the more vulnerable person becomes distressed and overreacts - and the abusive, drama loving person withdraws to 'punish' their partner and continue the cycle of anxiety in their partner. It's notable that he hasn't ended this even though he is avoiding seeing you - perhaps he enjoys the fact that you are upset about the situation and he has power over you.

I hope you dont get involved with another man like this! You are obviously thoughtful and a good person so dont need to settle for this shit.