When will I ever trust him?

[holdingittogether123]

Written other thread and things have moved on. We are now two months on from discovery of his affair with colleage. Things had been better. Still have occasional down days, still checking his phone though not every day. He has had a counselling session at my suggestion and has another booked with a view to us beginning joint counselling asap.

Had a difficult week where by he had first work night away this week. I felt surprisingly calm about it but on the day decided I needed to check if she would be going (more worry about her than him). He was sure not and said would have not gone if had been aware. An evening do was on and something I understood he had to attend. I contacted hotel where he said he was and they said she had checked in.

I was amazed they'd told me and was reeling. To cut a long story short I texted him during eve and he responded in the most amazing way and I had no doubt in what he said. He texted and phoned me all night. reassured me and told me how he felt.He was cross with her as she had not informed anyone and just turned up.He was reeling at the information and gave me a running commentry as she was late and he was not expecting her until I phoned him.

We had a great night out with friends the eve after and were planning a holiday by saturday.We also went to bed together for first time and made love sat am. First time since.

All going well but yesterday I just began to worry++. Had a bad night that night. Bad dreams involving him and her. Didn't sleep well. Due to go out with mum and DCs in pm and because he took his phone on dog walk am thought he had texted her to meet when we were out because we argued. He had shaved which he doesn't usually over w/e and so I thought something wrong. Ended up making excuse not to go with mum and so spend the child free time on own on walk as DH went to pub angry with my prolonged neg responses after such a good few days.

He said it was getting harder to understand these outbursts( usually v supportive) when we have had such a good few days and that he doesn't want to end up in a life with a wife who is obsessed with searching for something that isn't happening.
I'm sick of feeling like this but it almost feels worse than usual this time. Mood very low and v. emotionally exhausted.Don't know what to do.

OP, your story has similarites to mine except I kicked xp out within 2 hours of discovery. That was 7 months ago. He lied and lied and lied and was doing a very good job of reeling me in at times. But I had a gut feeling that something wasn't right. I had no evidence but I was on the look out all the time. Eventually, my opportunity came and I blew the pair of them out of the water. Her H, all their colleagues, XP's family and friends were all told in no uncertain terms exactly what had been going on for 2.5 years. There was no hiding place for either of them. Please do not collude with the secrecy.

Also, if he genuinely didn't know that she would be attending the work function overnight he would have made his excuses and left if he really valued his marriage and your feelings.

I'm 10 months in now and still have days (most in fact) when I feel like punching my husband for what he's done to his family and for making me the suspicious, cynical and distrustful person that I am - at the moment.

I have insisted on seeing all my husband's mobile phone bills going back to when the shit hit the fan. He didn't like one little bit but I needed to know when he was calling her and when the calls ended.

I still check his phone and would check his emails as well if I could log into them. I don't trust him - he had an EA which turned into a physical affair, even though both say they only had sex once.

I've spoken to the OW and she's a complete nutter. I made him call her one morning when I came downstairs first and checked his phone to find a voicemail from her. Drunk and early hours of the morning when he was in bed with me. He didn't know anything about it. She has called him three times altogether - drunk on each occasion.

On this occasion I made him call her in front of me - which he did. She was pretty pissed off and called me some not very nice names but he made it clear to her that he didn't want to know and didn't want her in his life in any way shape or form.

You're not doing anything wrong here. He'd lied to you - outright or by ommission doesn't matter, he's betrayed you and he's deceived you.

My husband's started as an EA which I discovered. I thought, well we thought, that we could work it out but then when she started texting again he couldn't resist. So I threw him out.

On reflection I think I'd made it all far too easy for him and it was only having him fully recognise what he was missing that seemed to bring him to his senses.

It's still hard and, frankly, I think your husband is being completely unreasonable and very selfish to think that this is something that's just going to go away.

He has to take full and complete responsibility for his actions. This is not your fault. Until he's able to be completely honest with you (about everything - my husband also used to tell lies about buying clothes, what time he'd come home etc etc) then you have no basis for a continuing relationship.

Thankyou WWIFN. I am planning to address some of the post discovery issues tonight. I need to get into his head and understand. I have spent the last 2 months giving him reasons to stay and as I explained to him this a.m I now need the time from him now he says he has never been more sure what his absolute priority is.

We have a very good counsellor who has seen us both once on discovery and him once since xmas period over. DH wants to do this now and not do anymore on his own. He says he understands my need to ask questions so is open and understands we need to do this.

I think we need direction because I can get upset and he tends to get frustrated so we have both agreed reasons why we want to do this with a third party.

TROET - I'm sorry to hear the horrible situation. I get angry too but I really want to get through this and need to do all we can to feel I can trust him again and give him the boundaries. If these are crossed then I will be in no doubt what I need to do.

His first words were 'I'm going to leave right now and come home'. I said he needed to stay. A very big important night. May be I should have let him show me. I will challenge this later.

Feeling really low again today. Wondered if anyone has any experiences of anti-depressants. Have had some quite deep discussions re affair with DH tues night and he had counselling yesterday. I also have an opportunity for counselling at work and by default found myself in a session yesterday so first time I have discussed this in detail with anyone. Suffice to say both traumatized last eve. My response to that is cuddles and affection but he is being cautious and was being great but not so affectionate as feeling a bit raw from his session. Found myself feeling resentful this am and instead of keeping this to myself when asked exploded in an emotional fire ball - again.

He is struggling to deal with what are very emotional and tearfulled, destructive outbursts. I don't blame him as I get very angry and throw all the blame at him again and again. It is so not good. I feel I have lost control and may have had what appeared to be a panic attack in a meeting yesterday after my councelling session.

I explained calmly afterwards in phonecall that I was sorry (as no one deserves that behaviour) but that I was rock bottom as all this was now affecting my daily ability to cope and even think about him and the kids.
I agreed to go to drs and get help today. I feel so bad as this has been the first time we have spoken of the affair and my delayed response has been so negative.

What hope do we have at being able to share this info if we're both scared of the aftermath??

No experience of ADs Holding. With hindsight I wish I'd tried some herbal remedies, but I have a general resistance to medication. I'm not saying that mine is the right approach and I know that some posters would advocate ADs, but for me I felt it was necessary to have a natural response to the pain and not anaesthetise myself from it.

Can you clarify some things for me? You say this was the first time you've spoken about the affair - why was that?

If that's true and you've been bottling this up, it's hardly surprising that it would have been like a dam bursting. However, learn not to be ashamed of your anger. It is righteous. The only caution I will ever give you about it is if it is getting in the way of you getting more understanding and learning new information.

What did your conversations yield in the way of information?
What did he discuss at the counselling?
What did you discuss at yours?

Hi holding, sorry you're down today. I didn't take any meds but did use Rescue Remedy which has a placebo effect if nothing else!

My H hasn't been able to be as affectionate as I would like, and it has been hard for me too. It seems to have changed a bit now he's turned his 'corner', but it's no good to me now I don't really want him at the moment!

I found out everything on discovery night. We got no sleep (I found out at midnight) but it was like I was in this surreal bubble looking down on myself. I was crying but relatively calm. It's a bit of a blur, but because I learnt so much then later was about confirming and filling in the gaps. Some of our worst times have been when new details have emerged that I didn't know before, because H didn't think of it at the time. It was one of these that made me finally ask him to leave- I couldn't believe all this stuff just keeps coming.

Shirley Glass says you need to start healing the relationship and building a base of trust and safety before discussing the details, but I couldn't do it like that. I had to know everything straight away. I would say it's so important for you to find out as much as you can before he forgets, so you know what you're trying to get past, and so you can start to heal the gaps in your mind.

As far as doing it without screaming and shouting goes, have you tried writing to each other? That was how I communicated with H for the first few days, and we still do sometimes. You could ask him questions, tell him how you feel, get him to write a timeline (v important), without the stress of doing it face to face.

WWIFN - I asked about the couple of texts I knew had happened post discovery and wanted to know if this had been the only contact as I needed to know the truth for trust reasons. He knew we were going to talk so said he had thought about what he wanted to explain. He wanted me to know why he had the relapses, that it had been a hard two months and ended up discussing the relationship and its impact on him. They had been close allies at work and formed ,he says, a very strong link through politics and important decisions were discussed as both at a similar level in their profession. He says that he had been missing the friendship more than anything else and sees the physical side as a teenage care free time that he says he now looks back on in a way that doesn't even feel like it happened. Like it was someone else. We discussed the build up and when it started crossing over. He thinks the Oct when I found an inappropriate text, I feel much earlier as she texted him from her hol in spring which I saw and became v upset about and warned him that this was not appropriate. All discuassion calm but he got visibly upset and said he didn't ever imagine could be such a bastard.V awkward after and we agreed he should sleep on settee.
In his counselling he said felt drained and didn't want to go through it again but time flew. Talked about feelings again and odd things about how he copes with bad news etc. DH said he thought counsellor had a plan!

In mine I just rolled out the series of events but expressed my concern at hearing this and my understanding that through this process it was possible he may change his current thinking of wanting to commit to us.
Cried and cried. Discussed he was analitical and describes that at the start he said he put her to one side until he knew what he wanted but now events were in a locked box firmly behind him.(?)

DH does say he made his decision to stay v early on and when I questioned it had to be more than duty he replied that it was cause he loved me and loved beng with me, even returnig from trips away with her he was so pleased to be home.

I don't know how to move from here. It may be I can't. it all feels like a big, black pit at the mo. Must go to Docs now

Will reply later to you RB.

Back again. Gp very good and reassuring about the post trauma reaction to new info is v. likely to be the cause of the low mood and anxiety. Prescribed a low dose of AD which I think I may try.

Have spoken to DH since app and he has been v calm and apologised for his reaction at my outburst which was one of frustration at what has been a really exhausting few days.

Discussed my fears about him not wanting to be open due to outburst but he has said he would but naturally feels v uncomfortable discussing what he feels he has moved on from. He does though understand why I need to know.

Thanks RB.I thought I had got to a point where trust was an issue as he was feeling more settled about coming back to bed and I was then worrying if I trust him as I got closer. I then thought I ought to hear more so that I could see he was able to be really open when asked about it,therefore helping renew the honesty and 'open windows'. Its been v hard.

Hi guys,

Mood has settled a bit and I am trying to focus on some stability at home after what has been a v difficult few days. Need some respite. Think the children do to after yesterdays drama.

We have agreed to let the dust settle for a few days and then plan how we move forward. He continues to say he has made his choice to stay in the marriage and this will not change. Keen to get joint counselling started as I think individual may be not addressing strategies of how we cope in healing as a couple.

WWIFN - be good to get any other idea of your thoughts.

Hi holding, how do you manage to not talk about it or bring it up? I would love to be able to do this, have more self control. Do you think your H's determination to stay and work on your marriage helps? I was doing well keeping it to 1/2 hour or so in the evenings, but that went by the wayside a bit as H's ambivalence got more unbearable. I just railed against it constantly. Maybe now he's finally committing I'll feel more peace? It would be good to not need to talk about it all the time.

Hi RB - I can't discuss it all the time otherwise I would go mad!! I love being with DH when we are getting on because we generally have a similar sense of humour and understanding. The positives of this at the mo is that I have changed the way I am with him since discovery. I listen and attend to how his day was and try a bit harder to have a calm home when he comes in. He does too. It had become a relationship that had reduced in its communication and attention of eachother and we now always have a hug when he comes in. I try to keep this consistent. He initiates this easily and has become our way of showing how we feel depending on how much we put into it. Sounds strange I know.

I would like us to have more days of open conversation about things I have any burning desire to know but this has to be controlled and sporadic as I need to develop the relationship so that he feels he can talk and I begin to feel safer. Him working in the same large office with her is hard and I may have to admit I can't cope with this at some point but he knows that. He's going to see how it goes for him and says he has joined a recruitment agency to keep his eye on the market.He has promised to be open.

I feel it has to be done bit by bit. We are considering planning a holiday and looking forward to the future.We have to focus on something.

I obviously have a lot of anxiety and are very hypervigilance at the mo but I have to control this as I know it can eat you up and feels horrible. I'm not taking the ADs as prescribed as took one yesterday and felt exhausted by the eve. Not sure if those or just drained. Decided to see how this week goes.

I still feel crap about things some days and still nervous about his honesty but I figure I need to live my life not exist and whilst I have no firm reason to suspect otherwise I need to keep going.

I am going to push for joint counselling asap cause we do need to discuss how we feel and I'd like to do this with help.

How s your situation. Is he stil at pals and any plans as yet?

What is your H saying are the reasons he had this affair Holding?

It's difficult to comment on this thread at times, because we don't have the full history of the affair. It might help us if you give a synopsis of the whole thing. It always especially helps me to advise posters if I know what your relationship was like before first contact with the affair partner, when this was, the run-up to the affair, when the affair started and when and how it ended.

We haven't discussed the reasoning yet directly because I thought this was a giant of a question at the moment. He has indicated this was a friendship that developed over the last 5 or so years. We were having no major issues in 2008 as far as I can remember. Money has always been tight so frustration at the situation on occasion I suppose. Nothing more.

I felt things began to be unstable march/April 2009. I had just received a text whilst holding DHs phone from her on hol and although not plainly inimate found this very concerning. We had a heated discussion and he was v shocked at my reaction but I discussed that this was unacceptable. He reassured me this was no more than friendship. Things deteriorated from then until Oct when we had several issues related to a text I'd found and other odd things over that Autumn.Not long after that locked phone saying work had indicated it.

We tried to make things better and went to a hotel in Dec for a weekend. Clearly things were inevitable cause it began in the Jan.

Many issues over trust and increasingly going to pub during week on way home. Village pub so know this happened. General unhappiness and reduced communicaion. Things started,ironically to improve in the month or so prior to discovery, less arguments. Nice family weekends ad meals out. Money had improved with promotion and all seemed well.

DS3 playing phone games, he had gone to shop. Recieved a call for him and DS brought me the phone chatted and rang off. Had phone and not locked. Checked and saw photos and emails from him and her. They had booked a room for a xmas do I was told wasn't on this yerar!!

Confronted him on his return and he told all i asked for. I didn't want much at that time.

It sounds as though you don't really know the answers to my questions and yet so many of them are fundamentals in the post-discovery phase. I guess you need to decide whether you are the sort of person who needs to know the true chronology of all this - (when first contact was etc., what happened, what was said by them, what was said about you and your marriage, who knew) or not.

That big question needs to be asked though.

I realise I need to do this and so does he but am i wrong for doing it in a measured and careful way? I thought Shirley Glass suggests there needs to be a level of goodwill before this should happen. I am trying to maintain a respectable level of communication and understanding.

As you correctly indicated we suffered a setback at NY and so are still trying to pull back after that. Also had to deal with a night away and several days of me with my self-esteem and general mood in my boots.

Tell me when is the right time to do all of this? Is there a right time? Should I be speeding up the process? I'm also wanting to discuss some of this with the counsellor too so we have a place and a time set aside to reflect on things together although we shall continue the process outside of that too.

I don't think there's a right or wrong way to do this, but I know for me I wouldn't be able to even think about moving on until I knew what it was we were trying to move on from. I'm just worried that you're doing such good work in starting to heal the relationship before you know what there is to forgive, or not. And then the details might be bad enough to set you back. Although hopefully they'll be worse in your imagination (for me some were, some weren't). Maybe you won't need to know so much? But another thing I find is once I've had something confirmed or denied, I tend to be able to forget, or at least not dwell on it so much wondering was it like this or that?

H is here for the weekend so I can have a lie in in the mornings, and we can see whether we're doing any better together. Not sure where he'll be next week, we'll see Sunday night. It's hard having it in my face again :( but like you say with your H, when things are good between us they're really good. Hopefully that will win out.

I agree that the way you do this needs to be right for you personally. I also recall Shirley Glass advising against getting sexual details until some safety and goodwill were restored, because those might aggravate the trauma. However, I didn't interpret that as details about other important matters and in any case, I felt free to ignore that advice because I knew that for me, speculation and imagination would be far, far worse.

Sadly, I have also seen several posters on here who have been traumatised more by not knowing the full story - there is even a current thread about this.

I also want you to think about the malleability of human memory. It is a fact that the more distance there is from events, the less accurate the recollection. The more guilt there is, also has an effect and recollections are sanitised or in your H's case, his own actions minimised.

From what you describe, this was a slow-burning affair borne out of deep friendship. There is much to tell and so much you need to know and understand.

Only you can decide what information you can cope with. People like me have a need to know everything, perhaps because I knew my mental health (and the relationship) would suffer if I was in the dark. In this situation, you are never on the same page as your H. He knows everything about what he did, but he won't yet understand all of it. You don't know everything and can understand less.

I wonder whether you have also told him the story of the affair from your perspective, because that might come as a shock to him and he needs to know it. Have you told him what was happening to you while this was going on? I always recommend this, because it is the one story that affair partners never realise - the effect of their behaviour on their primary partners.

As you might imagine, I wrote my story and when I gave it to my H to read, he was shocked to the core, but it gave him huge understanding that he otherwise might not have gained. People having affairs tend to minimise everything, including the effect this might be having on their partner.

Do what you think is right for you personally - and what you think you'll need, to prevent feeling worse later.

My xH had a very long affair that he eventually told me about. Assured me it was over but it wasn't.

I couldn't live with the constant doubt that he was still seeing her (he was) and the atmosphere was terrible. I left for my health and to protect our young kids from growing up thinking that a house where parents weren't happy was a home.

I've been single ever since and although doubtless the kids have suffered a bit from being brought up in a broken home (financially as much as anything else), I think they would have suffered more if I had stayed.

I never want to be with someone where I doubt them; but that is just me.

Good luck

Have just read a little of your thread holdingittogether - will read more tomorrow but I could have written your OP. Its the exact time frame and everything. Hope your ok today.

Hi Everyone, Thanks for posts.

WWIFN - I will be continuing to ask questions over the next week. He has agreed to joint counselling to discuss but still getting these interdispersed feelings of sudden anxiety. Ended up with another big discussion last night as I seek reassurance at intimate moments. He is finding this hard and loses the moment then feels uncomfortable.
I then respond with and emotional outburst (with effects of a glass or two of wine and little food thrown in)

Not sure if the ADs will help with these feelings or if I need to feel them to guide me.Still not using them.

Read story of the affair tonight (previously avoided) and wish had read before the night we talked. Have asked him to read 'what to tell' section expecially.Will try to write how I felt and give to him. Good idea.

He is being very supportive today and am tryng to be consistent for respite from this and protect any feelings we have fostered for a couple of days before the next discussion. Need to address the work issue.

Thanks RB - I am certainly obsessing at the mo and more info may help with this I hope.

Boring - Hope you are holding it together. It helps to know I have people in similar situations around to talk to. Whats your situation? Will look for thread. Do you feel anxiety at times? Never felt it before. Really horrible. Take care x

Sounds to me like you should make it clear to him that these periods of upset, confusion and apparent back-tracking are part of the healing process and he's just going to have to accept that as the deal. Of course he wants to draw a line under it and move on, but he has to see just what this has done to you. To truly heal your relationship and move on to a newer, stronger phase, he's going to have to suck it up. And yes, sometimes the scab on the wound will get knocked off and start bleeding again. He has to administer all the initial first-aid again. Tough shit for him. He should have thought of that before his affair.

Hi holding sorry to hear about your anxiety and low mood. I personally wouldn't go down the anti-depressant route. I have had quite bad PND myself, and didn't take ADs, but had CBT instead. I am so glad now that I didn't (although I am not being judgey about them at all and totally recognise that they are essential for lots of people).

However IMO ADs are for actual depression, when you don't necessarily know what the problem is, but you just feel desperately black and hopeless, whereas you are simply having the normal reactions of someone who has discovered an affair, and not sure that numbing your feelings at this point is going to be the best outcome for you at the moment?

Your H sounds like mine, in that he finds it hard to cope with my mood swings, and need to know things. Have you discussed this issue with a counsellor together?

This is horrible isn't it?

Take care x