Am I in an abusive relationship?

[nicecupatea]

Hello,

DH and I rowed horribly last week and he pushed me against the wall and shouted "I'm going to kill you" right in my face. He left/I kicked him out and I've been to see a counsellor.

As I expected, she is telling me that I am in an abusive relationship that could get worse if I dont set limits (keep him out of the house and only see him at therapy sessions)

I desperately want her to be wrong though, I dont want to be a "victim of abuse", I miss DH, I want to make up with him for our sake and our two year old sons sake. I'm scared that being apart may make things worse not better, but I am also aware that if I am not careful I really could end up in a very unhappy relationship which is worse than no relationship at all.

I think in my heart I know his behaviour is abusive (emotional rather than physical) but everytime I try and accept the idea I just collapse in tears, I just dont want this to be true. Could my counsellor (of 1 session of an hour and a half) be wrong? or am I in as deep a denial as DH is?

Nice, you're doing really well. It's a huge step to tell a real life friend about the truth behind the facade, as well as ending the relationship and seeing a counsellor. Precisely because of what you say about 'outing yourself', you're drawing some lines in the sand, and it's good to hear.

Hi - could you tell me what happened with the counsellor?

It's interesting what scgb is saying about couples counselling. I saw one a couple of weeks ago, OH didn't come, then I asked him to make an appointment on his own so he can see his behaviour and he hasn't. I am probably in an abusive relationship and have been for 25 years, but he of course can't see that, can't help it because he can't see it.

Sorry to hijack here - we seem to have that whole abuser-abused-abusing pattern going on - in that we are driven to being monsters through no fault of our own, just the desperate need for our OHs to continue and maintain a behaviour pattern that is what they need emotionally, inherited from their parents.

BG - I have experienced exactly what SGB described with My H and couples counselling. It was dreadful and gave him more ammunition to fire at me. Please don't go to joint counselling with your H. (I should add that I even told the counsellor that H had 'pushed' me around while I was heavily pregnant during a bad row, but because I saw this as a once off (or twice or three times..), it seemed to be irrelevant to her).
Myself and H have been having separate therapy now for over 18 months (weekly) and it has made a huge difference.

Hi Barbie dont worry about hi-jacking. Do you mean what happened with the couples counsellor or my own?

At couples counselling, the counsellor kept saying how many positive signs she could see, how well we were doing, that it was difficult for men to open up (!) and DH was doing so well etc etc. (we focussed nearly the whole session talking about his feeling) When we did talk about issues that had caused rows,, he actually did and said everything I have ever wanted him to do in the sessions, i.e. listened patiently without interupting, addressed the actual topic and didnt go off at random or say I was wrong and the problem didnt exist etc, didnt blame me for everything, basically respectfully discussed problems with me, which we then sorted out in about 5 mins flat. Of course back home he just reverted to the absolute opposite again as soon as he saw that I relaxed and believed the relationship was OK.

I see now, that all this was actually HELPFUL. Because its made me realise we dont have problems in our relationship because a) he is emotionally immature b) he has communication problems c) he doesnt have the right tools to know how to deal with conflict or anything similar. He DOES. He is perfectly capable of working through a problem in a respectful manner. He has just been CHOOSING not to because it works better for him that way. The issues themselves were never a big deal - in therapy we could always find a solution very easily, that because he wasnt really bothered by the issue at all, he just wanted to exert control over the situation. This is a massive revelation to me, for so long I have wanted to find an excuse for his behaviour which is understandable and forgivable and curable but now I realise i have to accept there isnt one. He KNOWS he behaviour upsets me, and thats why he does it!!! Its so so so hard to accept that the man I love is like this, but now I can see it clear as day. It hurts massively but I keep telling myself its better to work through this hurt ONCE more, rather than keep re-experiencing it every two weeks or so which is how we are now.

My counsellor worked through a lot of discussions/arguments/events with me over the past 5 months (and reminded me of things I said about our early relationship in January) and basically validated all my suspicions. She pointed out the abuse wherever she saw it (in more cases than I had realised) and also pointed out that going back to him would send the message that his behaviour is effective and would encourage him to get worse. She has also given me lots of practical advice about how to manage visitation, how to explain things to my son, where to get legal advice and help and much more.

Sorry for the long reply, I would add that I have seen a few counsellors and I think its very important that you have good rapport with them, If you dont "click" right away, you should find someone else. Also ask what their specialist subjects are, someone who focusses mainly on drug and alcohol dependency (our couples therapist!) isnt qualified to help.

newnamethistime thats awful. When I went in Jan to see the couples counsellor I started out with "we are here because we had a row and H behaved violently.." I (described the story in the first post) and was told repeatedly not to focus on that!!! she also ended up suggesting that I see a psycotherapist for medication I stopped going to sessions at that point which was a big victory for H and ever since then I have been accused of being "mad" and in need of medication in every row. Most recently he said this in front of DS, which is what provoked the slap.

Yes, It was awful. But you know the way it is in horrible relationships - you do things you are not proud of as well - so that apparently equals everything out then. Except it so doesn't. I completely understand why you snapped and lost the plot. I do not see it at all as you being the abusive one, and neither would anybody here that has had a similar experience. I just see that you simply couldn't cope any more. You also felt bad for what happened and realised that you had no right to slap etc. - there's a big difference between that and justifying bad behaviour (which is what my h did and you h probably still does).
I'm actually on anti-ds which didn't help my case at all either (I was the mad one). At least now he realises he was depressed too - just undiagnosed.
I feel like writing to that counsellor and letting her know just how shit she was.

Brilliant nicecup - you are SO one up on him there. You used his smarminess with the counsellor to assert yourself and accept that he's not just doing this because he doesn't know any better, he's just doing it because he cAN.

It really doesn't help when you seek help from someone and they want to put you on prozac. Can you imagine all the poor women out there suffering intolerable men with a smile on their faces? I keep questioning myself too - no motivation, a bit weepy, a bit lethargic, a bit snappy. Depressed? Probably, but is it any wonder?

The bitterest pill to swallow is to accept that you partner is prepared to hurt you to make himself feel better.

I have been on prozac three times in this relationship. I WAS depressed but now I see, and am being told by my (good) counsellor that the cause of the depression was H's behaviour and my frustration at not being able to deal with it. I think those medicated months probably helped me "hang in there" longer than I should have. Perhaps I would have snapped earlier had I not been labled depressed and therefore took the blame for the situation. I dont think there is anything wrong with medication in itself, I think you should accept help of all forms when you need it, but its very dangerous to use ad's as a sticking plaster to cover up a very serious problem that then gets forgotten.

newname I feel like sending my (bad) counselor a copy of the Lundy book with highlighted bits about the worst things counsellors can say and do (she did them all!)

barbie you are so right about the bitterest pill, this is what has always driven me back in the past, I just didnt want to see H in that way. It doesnt fit at all with who I thought he was (and who he appears to be to the rest of the world). I am still struggling with it, can he really be that evil?

Just ordered the Lundy book. Will be very interested to read it. Hope all is well cuppa. Good luck!

bananas I am doing much better today thanks, just been to see a lawyer to find out where I stand with everything as I dont live in the UK. I am relieved to find out that H was lying about lots of things, and I have lots of rights. I think you will find the book really helpful if you are not sure about whether you are in an abusive relationship or not, its certainly spells out very clearly what an abusive relationship is.

nicecupatea, I understand you feel guilty about using violence yourself. But it seems to me that what distinguishes you from your husband, is that you accept responsibility for your own action and feel remorse about it. Abusers do not.

ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow hi, I am actually feeling a bit better about it now because I have spoken a lot with my counsellor about it and she pointed out that it came out of incredible frustration at being bullied and not being able to prevent it. She said that the big difference was that I my intention was not to frighten and control him but to try to the breaks on his behaviour and protect myself. Its also not a pattern that I use repeatedly whereas being cruel is a pattern with him, and one that is escalating. Its true I feel remorse about it, but what was really eating me up was that like the abusers in Lundy Bancroft's book - I felt remorse for the wrong reasons i.e. feel bad about the consequences for me (loss of self respect and reputation) and of course for my son, but I dont feel bad that I hurt H.

When I think about if I regret it or not, I feel that I do and I dont. I do because I gave him ammunition to use against me, and he will, and I dont because it the one single thing that has made a massive difference to how our split ups have been in the past - it will be very hard for either of us to want to get back together after that, and I see now that that is a good thing.

I am obviously still feeling guilty though, because I couldnt bring myself to tell the lawyer about it. He asked why I wanted to split up from H and it was actually really hard to explain. I said he was abusive and he asked in what ways, and it was really hard to show it without having to list a long string of incidents which would take ages and still wouldnt really show what I mean by abusive, especially if I tagged on the end "oh, but I hit him last time"

Is anyone else worried about being believed or having trouble explaining things?

I guess it's precisely because it's hard to put your finger on that they get away with it. It is hard to explain and someone will always be able to explain it away. In your situation I assum it comes under unreasonable behaviour - I think you can get your counsellor to report to the lawyer if it's hard to explain? My gut feeling says be careful about what you say to a lawyer. You may find yourself doing that self-deprecating thing 'silly me - I went and slapped him in front of our son'. Allowing a child to see abuse can sometimes be defined as child abuse - then what will he say! Perhaps a talk to Womens Aid would be helpful, I assume they would know the right way to approach this. It's very confusing, and what we discuss on here or read in books is clear cut, they way that translates to the courtroom is quite another. I'm not married so I've not thought about having to justify it in that way.

Where is he now - he's left, and taken his stuff right?

Nicecupatea...I'm pleased that you have taken the power back into your own hands and hope that all goes well for you. I am also horrified at the attitude of some couples counsellors, as described in this thread. Years ago I was a Relate counsellor and psychosexual therapist and what has been said here about the experiences of women seeking help leaves me speechless.

I had a number of "violent" relationships during my time in practice and my first priority was always to make it plain to the perpetrator (not always the man BTW) that ANY level of violence, or threat of such, was absolutely unacceptable. It is possible to work with couples where violence is an issue but it is always difficult and the most difficult thing is to get the violent partner to accept responsibility for his (or her) actions. No amount of "but she/he made me do it" ever cut any ice with me.

It's a ghastly situation to be in and very often the only way to resolve it is to end the relationship.

I wish you well and hope that you are able to move on....and I hope that he can take a long hard look at himself, make changes and be a better person....not holding my breath on that one though.

cutting - good to hear from a professional in the field. I wonder how many women have been brought to you and OH had said there's something wrong with them because they don't want sex. OH says that to me all the time. I tell him there's nothing wrong with my sex drive and that usually completely stumps him. The book I'm reading The Emotionally Abusive Relationship by Beverly Engel is good because it looks at the pattern of behaviour and how they develop as a survival mechanism, isn't something the perpetrator does consciously. Nicecup's experience in counselling has shown her that her perpetrator is fully aware that what he is doing is wrong to the outside world, but acceptable within his relationship with her. But I wouldn't say that anyone that raises a hand or fist in a moment of desperation is an abuser though.

Barbie I am not in the UK, so WomensAid is not an option unfortunately. Yes DH left that night and came back the next day and took all his stuff. Nothing different from the one billion other times that this has happened. I think he thinks it will all pan out as before though with me patching things up. He has been in contact "to see DS" but its clear that he also has another agenda as he has tried to talk to me too. I have asked him to think about a schedule for DS of phone calls and visits that is consistent, on my therapists advice. She pointed out that DS has no sense of security because his dad is always coming and going, and also it will be easier for me to minimise contact with me if visits are regular and planned. Of course H has interpreted this as me trying to "control his life" and "tell him what to do" and is refusing to do it, and instead just shows up and phones when he feels like it.

cutting its nice to know there are some couples counsellors who would handle this situation better than mine did. I am sure just like in any profession there are good and bad people practising in it.

barbie our sex life has also been destroyed, until recently I couldnt see the connection (!) I even suggested to H a few weeks ago that we go for some specific sex therapy counsellor to help (!!!) I wondered what they would have told us?

You've got a good counsellor by the sound of it. Just as well you didn't see a sex therapist - can you imaging the mess that could have gotten you into!

As my book says, emotional abuse is often connected with narcissistic personality disorder - it sounds very much as if your OH has this - it's all about him.