Where to go from here

[HellinAHandCart]

My partner and I have been together for 11 years, I am a few years older than him, and it's fair to say I have more "life experience" than him. We have two children, aged 4 and 7, both planned, as much his idea as mine (in fact more his idea than mine if I'm honest) and we have, to all intents and purposes got a good life.

But things are just not right. He has suffered from depression for as long as I've known him, but until recently he's never admitted to it and sought help, he's been on anti-d's for a few months, and they are helping but aside from that we have this core issue that we keep coming back to over and over. He seems to want our lives to be the bright, exciting giddy fun it was when we first met. He can't seem to grasp that we are parents now, a family, and that we are neither of us love-struck teenagers, but adults, and parents. The days of sweaty sex marathons and all night raves are now replaced with washing school uniforms and reading school books with the kids.

I get up in the morning and get the kids ready for school, rush around like a lunatic, go to work, get home, make tea, we put the kids to bed (if he's here, he works shifts) and I then tidy up and make sure there are clean clothes and packed lunches ready for everyone who needs them the next day. By the time I've finished that it's generally about 9 o'clock, and I collapse exhausted on the sofa. By 10 I'm in bed. He falls asleep on the sofa most nights, then joins me in bed about midnight. We have no family support, no-one to babysit for us except now and then when my aged parents will take the kids overnight, but they are getting on and can't do it very often, so we just don't get to go out together much, just a few times a year on our birthdays if we're lucky.

But because we don't sit up having intense conversations all night, and because we only manage to have sex about once or twice a month, he thinks I don't love him any more, and don't care. He's a sweet man, in many ways he's sensitive and caring, but he's totally unaware of what needs to be done to run this house and keep the kids fed and in clean clothes, and if I ask him to do stuff in the house (like wash up or hang up wet laundry) he does it without complaining, but then whines that he feels like I'm his mother, not his partner. He really, honestly, seriously equates sex with love. If we aren't having sex, if I don't "desire" him he feels unloved and unwanted. He can't seem to grasp that 7 years of broken sleep and the demands of a job and two children have left me exhausted, and this is why we don't have sex or long deep meaningful conversations anymore, not because I hate him, or don't care.

He ties himself up in knots of misery, recedes into himself, and then feels isolated from me and the kids, and in the last 5 years he has twice formed "close" relationships with women online, turning to them for affection and affirmation, instead of getting off his arse and off his computer ( this is him to a tee ) and interacting with me and the kids. Neither time has this resulted in any kind of cheating, but the fact that he turns to someone else, and lives a fantasy life (which of course I can't possibly compete with) really hurts. Both times I have effectively "caught" him out, and then a huge show down results, there are rivers of tears (from him) about how lonely he is, and how miserable he is and so on. So we've sorted it out made it all up, got back on track, and bit by bit things slide and before you know it I am running everything again, he feels like my adopted son again and he turns to online/distant "friends" for contact and fulfilment.

AM I banging my head against a brick wall here? Does anyone else have a fantasist like this who refuses to live in the real world, but who blames their partner for the fact that life is not what they hoped it would be? When we have discussed splitting up I have asked him what he would tell the kids, "sorry guys, it's just that being a daddy and living this 'family' life thing hasn't really been doing it for me, I think I'd like to be a teenager again and fall head over heels in love with a new person every few months just to keep life exciting"???? WTF???

Or am I being unfair? Should I drag my weary ass off the floor and kick start our love life again (I'll need some kind of viagra/amphetimine to get the va-va back in my voom though!) and make more of an effort to make him feel wanted?

Well done if you got this far.

I don't think you should tolerate him forming any sort of relationships with women online. He should be getting to the route of his feelings of loneliness etc. The fact he blames you for his feelings is not fair. He reminds me of my husband who buggered off before Christmas saying the same kinds of things and blaming me for his unhappinesss in life. My husband is having a major midlife crisis and disatisfied with life/wanting excitment etc (not that these men will admit it is aa midlife crisis).

I hope I am wrong. I also hope he has the back bone to face up to his feelings and take ressponsibility.

I've read several threads on here now and I'm quite stunned by how many of us have men who expect to have their cake and eat it. It seems we women really are expected to be whores in the bedroom, Mary Poppins in the Nursery, Nigella in the kitchen and a domestic goddess in every way! WTF??

He can't be having a midlife crisis, he's no where near 40 even! He seems to expect us to be like love-sick teens all the time, I'm sure he thinks that food magically appears out the kitchen, and that we have a House Elf to do all our laundry......

Fucksake, I'm just too bloody tired for this crap. Sometimes I do think it would be easier if I just kicked him out, but the kids would be destroyed, and I do love him, when he's not being a petulant child he's great.

I am feeling really low this morning. He's gone away to visit friends, and was out drinking until 4am, even though he knows he's meant to be driving home (a 4 hour drive) at some point today.

What's wrong with him? He has everything most people hope for. A job he enjoys and is paud well for, a nice house, happy healthy children who love him and enjoy doing stuff with him, a partner who loves him and cares for him, but it seems it's not enough.

What does he really expect 11 years into our life? Does he really think that after running around like a headless chicken all day that once I've finished all the domestic crap that I'll lure him upstairs in a basque and suspenders?

"Sometimes I do think it would be easier if I just kicked him out, but the kids would be destroyed, and I do love him, when he's not being a petulant child he's great"

When is he ever great and not acting like a petulant child exactly?. He has acted selfishly throughout your marriage, never really sought proper help for his depression and has had online relationships with other women. And you're still there with him, where's your tipping point?.

I also don't actually think the children would be destroyed actually if you were to legally separate; they're seeing all this crap as well and they're learning damaging lessons about relationships from the two of you. What are the two of you tecahing your children about relationships here?. You're currently showing these children that all this is acceptable to you. Is that what you really want to teach them?.

What are you getting out of this relationship now?. Be honest with yourself on that one. Bet you as well you do all the running within this one sided relationship to maintain it.

One of my relations is a depressed fantastist who blames everyone else for his problems (narcissist) and he's a complete nightmare.

I've been where your husband is and it's a dark place. On the face of it I/we have everything a family could wish for. But I saw my relationship with my wife slowly deteriorating as the pressures of family life continued to rise (kids are 6,5,3 and 2 so not a surprise really) The more they increased, the more I got upset about losing the relationship with my wife and over time it became all I could focus on.

I've been seeing a councellor for a year and that has helped me a lot, but to be honest we weren't getting to the root of the problem until I basically broke down (not a recommended course of action). My wife realised just how bad things had got and we have communicated more in the few weeks since that happened than we have in the last 7 years.

Having both been convinced that we have been growing further and further apart, we have come to realise that we basically want exactly the same things from our lives with each other and the family and both agreed on some small steps to get us to where we want to go.

I empathise with both of you. The one thing that stands out in your post is your daily grind and not finsihing eveything you need to do until 9pm.

I'll be blunt here and I apologise if it upsets anywone - I don't see how a relationship can EVER work under this kind of strain when you have no time for each other. There has to be a way of relieving the pressure, whether it be him pulling the stops out and doing a huge amount more to reduce the stress on you or by getting some help from family and friends (tit for tat help/babysitting).

My wife and I have committed to each other that we are not going let ourselves sleepwalk into the well versed trap of ending up as friends under the same roof and even though she is uncomfortable getting help from others (paid or otherwise) we are working on ways to gradually rebalance things. We are reconnecting rapidly and it really is a lovely feeling. There has been give and take on both sides and I think this has to be the case for couples trying to make things better.

Clearly forming relationships with other women, online or otherwaise, is not acceptable. However from reading threads on here, it can be and often is the all too common consequence of neglected relationships.

Sorry this is so long but I read your post and thought I may have something relevant to say.

Hope it all improves.

Atilla I am close to my tipping point, I think we have reached the make or break point. When he gets home I am going to re-set some ground rules. (can I just clarify that the online relationships he has are "friendships" the problem is he pours his heart out to them, whilst being the sweet funny man he is inside, instead of sharing this with me!) I am going to redistribute the domestic chores, make the spread more equal. I need practical support from him, not expensive gifts followed by nagging for sex because he doesn't "feel desired".

Since he finally sought help for his depression things have been better, he's on Prozac now, and it has helped, but I suspect he may be on of those who benefits from it short term, but needs to switch meds after a while.

I am also going to get us both some counselling. Both for us as a couple, and for him as an individual, he needs help to realise that his e peculations are way off reality, and that his unrealistic ideals are destroying us.

givemesomespace, it's encouraging to hear that you have been here and are climbing out the other side. One question though, did you constantly nag your wife for sex and then feel all hurt and rejected when she was too tired?

Don't get me wrong, it's not the sex specifically that's the problem here, to me it's a symptom of how little he understands what's going on, and how insensitive he is to me and my feelings, that he still expects me to empty his balls even though I'm struggling to stay awake. I just can't comprehend why he doesn't "get it".

Im going to draw a line in the sand when he gets home and tell him we need to sort this before it's too late.

Thanks for your honesty.

I really like givemesomespace's reply but I'm afraid I agree with Atilla.

One reliable old tactic in a "wood for the trees" situation is to focus fully on yourself (possibly for the first time since you had DC1!) and let your head figure itself out while you award your personality some tlc. What are your chances of either leaving H with the kids while you go away somewhere nice, or teaming up with a friend or relation to share the parenting while you both get some me-time?

Congratulations on keeping your sense of humour! Love the cartoon (despair at the comments ...)

Hi Hellin,

He probably won't accept any counselling at all and probably says that he does not need it!.

If this is the case, would suggest you have counselling on your own. This will also help you decide your long term future.

Again you are doing all the leg work here with the relationship and this is not good. He does not seem at all interested in making it work or even wanting to make it work.

Re this comment:-
"can I just clarify that the online relationships he has are "friendships" the problem is he pours his heart out to them, whilst being the sweet funny man he is inside, instead of sharing this with me!)"
This is exactly what an emotional affair would be classed as.

Long term depression is very hard for both the sufferer and you as the spouse to live with (and your marriage is certainly under strain) but how much of this behaviour is due to depression and how much of this is due to him acting like a complete self indulgent twonk because he can?.

Consider too the effects this is having not just on yourself but on your children as well. They're seeing and picking up on all this tension you show each other by unspoken actions. And again I ask you, what are you both teching your children about relationships here?.

I really like givemesomespace's reply too, whilst recognising that Atilla is seeing things very clearly.

You sound amazingly clear minded, about where you need to go to make this relationship work for you. (Think that's one of the advantages of MN - it really does sort your head out.) It's also clear that you love your dh. I do hope that he can respond positively to your suggestions. It may be worth taking on board Givemesomespace's suggestion of building in some time for you as a couple too, along with the other fresh changes you are introducing. You can then clearly demonstrate that not only do you need him to do his share around the house but to treat you as a human being, to talk to and to listen to, at least once a month over a peaceful glass of wine.

(My dh and I are in a v. similar situation of having no family support nearby and no-none to babysit. Then one of the local mums started a babysitting circle. I went off for the first evening, leaving dh to put our kids to bed, and had a peaceful 3 hours, watching TV and eating biscuits. We then had 3 hours babysitting free, for us, in return. (Like you, I work and do most of the childcare, so am kn*ckered by 10pm.) We used 2 of our 3 hours babysitting tokens to stagger round to the pub and have a plate of chips and a drink, and were back in bed by 10pm, but it did get us out of the house together for the first time in ages. We now try to do it once a month if we can. Just a suggestion, as I thought it would be a real bind babysitting, but other people's children can be much more relaxing than your own!)

Hellin - Re nagging the Mrs for sex - I felt like I was, but having recently asked her this direct question (did she feel nagged), she said she hasn't felt so. I probably went the other way and became more distant. I definitely wanted more (I guess that's normal), but for me it was more about affection and intimacy and because we weren't communicating, I just felt rejection all fronts and I ended up feeling like nothing more than a provider and joint carer, and certainly not party to a equal relationship. I became more distant (and probably grumpy and unfriendly) and so DW felt like I was rejecting her. So in a way NOT nagging could be worse!! Whichever is worse, neither will create the right "ambiance" for romance and Lovin'.

Like you, I think the sex can become the misguided focus of so many other issues and so all the really important stuff gets pushed to one side. Having said that, a physical relationship (even if it's just hugs and kisses) is so important to being properly connected, it can all become one vicious cycle.

In my opinion, communication is the key to solving all this stuff and because men and women can be so different, it can be hard to make that communication work. I think couples should do what ever is required to increase the amount of honest talking, especially about the difficult issues (there's the paradox - the difficult issues are the hard ones to even start talking about). I never thought it would be this hard!!

Clearly I'm no expert - this is all just my opinions.

Re the online relationship thing - I agree 100% with Attila - as soon as someone is pouring their heart out to someone else more than their other half, it's a massive red flag. Needs to stop now otherwise it will develop into something more ugly, even if its not physical.

HTH

If he thinks his partner should be so 'available and willing' to attend to his every need, perhaps he needs to earn much more so you don't need to work, employ a full time housekeeper/nanny and leaving you free to adore him 24/7.