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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I feel compelled to lie to H about money

38 replies

sushiknife · 23/01/2011 03:21

Backstory here:

H makes a good salary, great against national average, not amazing against salaries where we live and in the industry he's in. But a good salary.

We have three DCs, 2 school age and 1 pre-school. The youngest is disabled and I am caring for him full-time.

DH is a bit... 'unconcerned' about money. He always had plenty as a single guy, then he moved in with me and DS1 and paid the rent but still had plenty (I was earning too and we'd been doing fine beforehand so his salary was 'extra' money). He bought a property at the height of the market on some bad advice (buy to let sort of thing); we had a terrible time last year including H thinking he might have to go bankrupt (a property gamble), which meant we had to reassess our finances totally and some stuff came out which shocked me a bit. He gave me access to his accounts and I found out some stuff which alarmed me.

Like a bill for a storage locker, regular outgoing - total of SEVEN GRAND to store three whiteboards and some boxes of his long-ago ex's stuff (she went back to her home country and he 'forgot' about the locker etc).

His card was cloned and he didn't claim back all the fraudulent transactions because he 'didn't look back far enough'. This was years ago, discovered it while going through old statements chasing some savings.

The rent from the tenants in his property covered the outgoings, he was always very clear on that (and said it was the one good thing about rubbish interest rates), he always cited that as a reason not to sell the property (we can't buy a place for ourselves until we get rid of it, we'd make a small loss if we sold now), but I recently did some sums on a whim and no. Their rent covers the mortgage not the service charges or other fees; there's actually a £700pcm shortfall.

I'm a SAHM now through choice (mostly to do with DC3's issues), and just lost my last source of independent income. We're okay - sort of stuck here as we can't afford to move, can't consider fee-paying school for the DCs to avoid the terrible comp, but okay. But I hadn't realised how much of DH's salary was getting frittered away.

He won't do anything about organising money for me, either. At the moment I buy most stuff on his credit card, that includes food, stuff for the kids, stuff for the house and stuff just for me. I want 'my' money to be more clearly deliniated as I feel weird/guilty about buying stuff for myself on H's credit card and he does make comments about it and I find myself justifying everything. We don't have/want a joint account in case the financial issue from last year returns to bite us.

We talked and talked about what a reasonable amount for me to have 'just for me' was a month and came up with a figure he grudgingly agreed to (less than I spend on me a month currently), but he won't set up a standing order or anything.

ANYWAY. My lies.

When we were going through our finances thinking H might have to go bankrupt, I did not remind him about £15k I have in NI bonds in my name. I told him about them at the time (a gift from my granddad before he passed away), and have mentioned them since but not recently and not since the financial problems. I didn't want to give the money to H and have it vanish into his bankruptcy, which seems reasonable enough to me, but I didn't tell him about it at all.

And this week, a friend of mine I gave £3k to some years ago (long story but it represented an investment in her business which then folded, she's always felt awful about it), contacted me after her father passed away saying she wanted to repay me out of the estate. I didn't tell H about that either though I did tell him her father had died.

This is awful, isn't it.

I brought up the shortfall between what his property is costing and what he's getting back from the tenants today and he as good as put his hands over his ears and said la la la. He doesn't want to sell, fine, but he won't consider doing anything which could increase the rent either.

His salary doesn't stretch so far now there are five of us to one income and I feel guilty and conflicted and upset that I've lost my financial independence and angry and all sorts.

But I am lying to DH and I don't know what to do about that? Lying about money is one of the big warning signs of doom, isn't it?

OP posts:
omaoma · 24/01/2011 23:00

sounds like it would be a v good idea for you two to have some kind of counselling when things have settled a bit - seems a lot of unresolved issues around your DC3, communication, expectations and sharing of responsibilities as a family unit. it can only lead to build-up of resentment and tension. (it is incredibly archaic to still be having a discussion about your 'allowance' when you are primary carer for 3 young kids!)

also wanted to add: my DH is a fantastically responsible person, very considerate but he bas a BIG mental block about money; he is very chary about moving it about etc, would rather just leave it, to the point of having large deposits in a current account earning zilch interest that could be somewhere making 6% (back int he day when you could!). we have our own monies as well as joint, so it doesn't affect our family particularly and his issues are nothing like as bad as your situation. but it sounds a bit like your DH: think it is basically a fear of making the situation worse by doing something, that you are not up to the job, and if you leave it under lock and key and tiptoe away it will magically sort itself out. your DH sounds like he was lucky in early life, the money made itself, so he never had to develop the skills to proactively manage it and basically thinks/knows he can't, hence the defensiveness and 'lalala'.

JustForThisOne · 24/01/2011 23:55

sorry to go back to the flat but I fail to understand how a flat a small flat in a dodgy part of london can loose 700 monthly. How many bedroom is for you a small flat? What is the rent? Are you taking advantage of interest only mortgage? Are you paying hi ground rent? and a management agency that you could do without?
When did you buy it? I refuse to believe that a property doesnt give you a good return Confused

snowcake · 25/01/2011 09:04

Myleetlepony is right. And others have mentioned it, too. Should your DH go bankrupt or you divorce the monies in your name will be thrown into the pot to cover outstanding payments, fees, etc. I have a very similar DH, though not quite as bad and secretive but I am just as livid as you are.

Please do not feel guilty but try and get financial advice yourself and the sake of your dc. Very sorry for you. Maybe if you post in the subsection money and legal someone can give you more detailed advice.

It doesn't sound like your DH wants to face reality/hear anything about it.

Buda · 25/01/2011 09:51

How's things now?

sushiknife · 25/01/2011 10:45

Hey guys

Things have moved on a bit - DH is going to call the kitchen guy and some estate agents today "if he has time". I can't today as busy with DC3's appointments but can tomorrow. HOWEVER he has sorted out a standing order. We had some (more), discussions about everything after going to see some houses in our price range in an area with good secondary schools outside of London. He said he doesn't want to move and we talked about what we'd do then. Then over the course of that discussion he 'realised' that actually maybe we should move. It is really tiring. I have made a lot of the big decisions over the years and have often felt (been made to feel?), that my decisions were the wrong ones (true sometimes), and that that is being held against me (feels unfair).

thumbdabwitch and oamaoma I think counselling is on the agenda, yes. For lots of reasons but this whole money issue is part of it. He has now sorted something out WRT my 'allowance' - he said he thought it was fine for me to use his credit card because he gets air miles(!), but could I just spend less on it(!!! - up to the level of the agreed amount). We had a long and boring conversation about that and I showed him how many air miles we were talking about (not many, and he has 80,000 already and no plans to use them), and he grudgingly did the standing order. He was a bit tipsy and did it in a huffy way but he did it. Sigh.

snowcake I have had FA and we took some precautions I don't want to go into too much just in case! But thankyou. I don't blame myself very often.

JustFor, I didn't say it was small, I said we couldn't live there. It's three bedrooms and in a very dodgy part of London, tower block, notorious estate. Even then that's no big deal (but that's why we can't live there - even leaving out DC3's mobility issues, the nearest school is horrendous etc etc). The problem is the service charge not the mortgage. The rent covers the mortgage. There was an 'extraordinary service charge' - the roof needed replacing, the cost divided between the private leaseholders. That is a huge amount of money per month. DH and some other leaseholders are challenging the ruling that they have to pay but are liable as it stands.

Sorry if you can't believe there's no money in renting out a property which was bought at the height of the property bubble and is in bad repair!

The 'plan' was to do it up and sell it on but we couldn't do anything while waiting to find out if H would have to go BR and don't have the spare cash now. And it would sell at a loss. H shares your disbelief though, despite the evidence of his own bank account.

OP posts:
HecateQueenOfWitches · 25/01/2011 10:54

I think that, at the moment, it would be wise for you to keep this money a secret. You need some financial security, in case things can't be worked out. You are extremely vulnerable and if you give up this money then you are making a mistake. imo anyway. You have to think worst case scenario. You need this security in case you have to go it alone.

And I am normally of the 'one pot' school of thought, but this case makes me feel like you need an emergency fund, just for you and the kids.

sushiknife · 25/01/2011 11:03

Hecate, I hate to admit it, but part of wanting my 'own' allowance is so that I don't only have money I have already spent. If that makes sense? As it was, I 'had' as much cash as I wanted/needed (within reason obviously), but only to buy stuff with. With an allowance, even if it is less money, there's the option to save a bit. Not necessarily as a 'running away fund' but just in case. And so I can save up FOR stuff if I want.

OP posts:
HecateQueenOfWitches · 25/01/2011 11:04

The thing is, an 'allowance' is terribly demeaning, don't you think? It's either family money or it's not. If you get an 'allowance' then I don't blame you for wanting something to call your own.

JustForThisOne · 25/01/2011 11:09

ah ah Sushi I re-read my post and realised I did sound exactly as your DH, shame on me Smile
You have explained there were extra ordinary works and now it makes sense. How unfortunate major works were scheduled, it happened to friends of mine. That is the danger with blocks
I hope you can over throw the ruling and recoup some cash

sushiknife · 25/01/2011 11:32

Hecate, it's a bit of a semantics thing though I do agree that the word 'allowance' is indeed demeaning. As things stand (stood, stood, got to hope it's stood), it was more of a 'family money' thing - I had access to our funds (via DH's credit card), and bought everything on that. Groceries, stuff for the kids and stuff for me. So DH's argument is I have (almost), unlimited access to 'family money' and can (and do), spend it on just-me if I want to.

'Allowance' is the word I've been using to define money FOR me, that I don't have to spend to access (iyswim), and can save if I want. That means it stops being 'family money' and starts being MY money.

DH very very very rarely says "my money" (as in, his). Every time he has I have come back with "well give me some of mine and I'll stop spending yours".

JustForThisOne and I was just thinking I sounded really snippy and horrible, I'm sorry. Please don't worry about it - you did sound like him, but without the benefit of knowing the circumstances (and he very much does!) - so he has no excuse and you very much do. Sorry for being snippy and defensive! The flat is very much a cross-making topic for me Wink

OP posts:
FedUpWithLies · 25/01/2011 12:38

Going slightly against the general consensus here(and based on my own experience of being lied to directly and by omission), I don't think any good can come from you lying, whether by omission or directly.

As a couple, you clearly have several issues to deal with and I hope that counselling can help you with that.

With regard to your finances, they obviously need a complete overhaul and if your DH can't/won't do it, you will have to or employ someone to get everything sorted (ie a consultant). Your DH might be more ready to accept the advice of a professional who comes into your home?

You need to agree an allowance for BOTH of you, once all your other financial commitments have been met. So something along the lines of a joint account for all household,childcare,etc, and each of you have your own account which your allowances are transferred into. You would then be able to do what you like with your own money.

Your DH is clearly not very good with money, and is being evasive, BUT so are you. My thinking is that either you are in it together, or you're not. If you are both being deceitful about money, it will never get better because you don't trust each other. You have to find a reasonable, manageable compromise that you can both accept.

snowcake · 25/01/2011 12:55

Hi SK, I'm glad you had advice. Just focus on the counselling because your DH's head in the sand attitude is affecting your relationship and well-being as a family. I really hope you can figure out a way to resolve this situation but in the meantime please do not feel like you're keeping a guilty secret. It's not like you've got a hidden gambling addiction or shoe fetish, stealing your kids' pocket money to keep it up. Really know and feel your despair, might well do my own post re my DH soon.

thumbdabwitch · 25/01/2011 15:21

sushi, well done for getting that standing order in place. I too hate the term "allowance" but don't really see what else it can be called - "housekeeping" or "pin money" is even worse, IMO. And it isn't for housekeeping anyway - that's what DH's credit card is for. (I had to laugh, in an ironic fashion, re the air miles - yes, that's why I have DH's credit card too)

Hope you can get the flat sorted and sold, so that's one less white elephant hanging over you and draining your resources.

Snowcake - :(

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