stay or go?

[butterflybee]

It's been 4.5 years. Started fantastic, felt more comfortable than anyone I'd even been with, stupendous sex, he offered to 'take care of' me.. something I'd never thought about accepting or being interested in with any previous relationship. I felt really settled, from the way he talked he did too. Got pregnant really early - 3 months in - which felt perfectly natural at the time, even though it was only half planned.

And then I started to want something concrete from him - beginning things like help planning a wedding, or time together after a period of him being distracted writing exams for work or.. and it wouldn't happen. He would say it would happen, just never appear. Then I'd get frustrated and he'd feel henpecked. and escalate and escalate over time.

And major disappointments like him taking a week off work when I was 8.5 months pregnant with our second child to pack house (again - 'I'll take care of it") and me coming home from work each day to nothing changed and ending up doing well over half myself. Or missing a flight he'd booked himself and then blaming me.. Or being late for every single session of marriage course and then rubbishing everything that was said.

And and and.. I try to talk about it and it just ends up hours of bad feeling with no resolution. And I don't see how we get out of these patterns. And sex is totally dead - first from him and now me. And I don't want things to be over but I don't see how they're not.

And .. we've got 2 girls under 4. And.. my family is all on another continent. And.. he wants me here, he wants a relationships, just doesn't seem able to do what I want or need to make that seem valid. And obviously I'm not perfect either.. I don't know how much of this is my own patterns that would just come back if I ever had a different relationship.

So.. I'm confused. I guess I needed this out somewhere. And could use some advice. Please.

Hi butterflybee, just wanted you to know I read your post. No advice really, just try and find a way to really communicate. Why does he not want to get married? Is it just that he is unorganised and bad at getting stuff done? (My H is like that.) Or is it something more? What do you really need/want from each other, and is it what the other is capable/willing to give? I hope you can work it out, esp. for your DCs. Good luck.

Thanks for reading and some thoughts.

He is disorganised and bad at getting stuff done. We did get married, he just wouldn't get involved in planning even when I talked about it being important to me. I could live with him not getting involved or even being disappointed again and again when the things he say he'll do don't happen.. it's the way I feel dismissed, unloved and like a source of snarling tension.

We seem totally unable to communicate and I have no idea how to make it better. It used to be that an argument would last all day, making me late for work or appointments sometimes. More and more things would get added to the mix, emotions would get more and more heated. I've gotten better at insisting we focus on one topic, stoping things when there's tension (from either of us), talking about his actions or words and how they impact me or how they make me feel, trying to let go and really listen to him even when I don't agree with all of it, trying to acknowledge what he is contributing. There are some small progresses.

But.. it is argument just about every day. Over stupid things, and I'm trying my best not to get caught up in it but it still hurts when I'm called stupid or selfish or lying or when I've been so careful to say something like "we have trouble communicating" and he hears it as me accusing him of being a bad communicator.. and then says I'm not listening when I try to explain that's not what I said, that's not what I meant, I'm sorry if it came across this way.. our interaction is taking up so much of my energy and I don't have much energy to begin with.

I'm deeply unhappy. If there weren't kids this would be long dead. I don't want to run away in case there's something that can change for their sake, and because he's not a bad man in many ways. Is there a way to shield yourself within it, not to have so much energy sucked out by conflict? To stop or avoid conflict when it's become so entrenched? I would almost be ok with us just existing in the same house if I didn't feel knocked down (verbally) so often.

Throwing a strop is a great way of deflecting unpalatable truths. He doesn't want a reasoned debate because he might find himself in the wrong, so he goes on the attack immediately and you spend the rest of the argument defending yourself, even ending up apologising for his deliberate misunderstanding, and trying to boost his poor wounded ego instead of tackling the initial question. Sneaky innit?

Yep, that's about exactly right. I've called him on it, counsellor's called him on it, and it don't seem to change. I'm running out of patience. Fast.

And the existing in the same house.. realistically would need to be a short term solution. I don't want my life to be that.

Marriage counselling is a waste of time if only one party has any interest in engaging with the process - although the fact that he's even agreed to go is something positive, I suppose.

It does sound a bit over-ish doesn't it? But I can see how you totally don't want it to be. I left mine after many many years of trying to make it work, including several hopeful spells where I really thought we were getting somewhere. He had an interesting bundle of personality disorders, though, so he just couldn't help going back and back to the bad old ways. Whether there's hope for a rational human being who is just in bad habits I don't know. I'm guessing your H has a particular view of what marriage ought to be like and gets very huffy if it isn't exactly like that, or even that he thinks constant irrational nitpicking is what it's supposed to be like. It would be a strong counsellor who would pull that out and get him to admit it, and a very brave man who would accept the criticism and try to address it. I do not know whether your H is that man. I will say, though, that of course they all start out nice, otherwise you'd never have got together in the first place. How he looked in the honeymoon period is irrelevant to what sort of person he is now.

Saint Lundy of Bancroft says that an abuser carries on abusing because it is in their continued interests to do so. As long as you being upset is less important to him than getting his own way, he'll carry on using any techniques that work to have you fussing over him whilst he carries on doing what he damn' well pleases. If he doesn't help you, that's all right: you will pick up the slack. If he doesn't want to discuss something, all he has to do is shout; shouting bothers you more than it does him. You won't leave because you are trapped with small children a long way away from your family. So what are the consequences of his continuing to be a bit of a bastard when it suits him? Apparently none, apart from an ongoing bad atmosphere which, as I said earlier, could be what he's used to and even feels comfortable with.

It's usually at this point that I suggest putting the fear of God in him by contacting a solicitor and looking into your rights. You may already have done that, though (why he's agreed to counselling?). He needs to know you're serious or there will be no incentive to change. There has to be a big fat OR ELSE going on.

just wanted to say thank you for the response. it struck a nerve.