Narcissistic Mother playing guilt trip over dead Dad :" You thought more about your dad and that upsets me so much"

[DrNortherner]

Since Dad died in 2009 we have had so many issues. I have stopped pandering to her and pulled her up on many things.

She stayed with us for 5 days over Christmas, which was hard work but we did it.

I normally visit her once a months, she lives 80 miles away and does not drive, so it's up to me to visit her. After Christmas and NY we are a little straped for cash, and it costs me £40 in petrol to get there and back so I explained in January I would not be visiting due to cash flow. I was prepared for xrying but she seemed to take it well.

Anyway, I called her yesterday, don't normally call on a Sunday but hadn't spoken to her on Saturday so thought I'd ring to say Hi. At which point she burst into tears saying she had had 3 2 really bad days, feeling depressed, not eating, no one rings her, doesn't want to get out of bed, and then she said "I know I shouldn't ay anything but I was so upset when you told me you are not visiting in January I understand and everything, I don't want you to feel bad but I am just so so upset" More wailing and huge sobbing.

Then she hit me with how sad she feels that our relationship has changed since Dad died because "You thought more about your dad than me and that upsets me"

Of course, I got a bit arsey with her and agreed that yes, I was extremely close to my dad but that doesn't mean I don't love her and she just says that I always get snappy and we can't have a proper conversation.

I must add that since my dad died she has not sat and had one conversation with me, about how I feel, about how much I miss him, it's all about her, and her grief.

I feel I need some tips on how to handle or I will blow, which could damage our relationship forever.

Anyone any advice?

Thanks

2 bad days....not sure where the rogue 3 came from!

Send her a list of counsellor's in her area to help her deal with her grief, just over a year is still early days if you have been married a long time without the added issues. This hitting bottom may be the catalist she needs to deal with her problems.

She's seen a cpuncellor, seen her GP countless times......the councellor didn't work she says so she won't try another.

She's on anti depressants.

DrN

You may want to look at this website:-

www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com

Again what she is telling you is all about her. Not you and certainly not your Dad whom she saw as competition for your love.

You deserve a medal for having her for 5 days at Christmas; I cannot even be in the same room as my NPD relative (we no longer speak).

Stop calling her too, it just opens you up to more manipulation.

I would argue that your relationship is already damaged because she actively likes to sabotage it and make any life changing event or tragedy all about her.

Not really surprised to see that she has already seen a slew of counsellors.
People with NPD are very averse to any type of therapy and even once in therapy do not respond to it very well.

Thanks Atila, have seen that website before. It is very helpful.

Stopping calling her is not an option. I am her only child. I would feel too guilty if I stopped contact.

Imho, if you feel she is emotionally abusive, then that changes the whole brainwashed traditional spectrum of "family duty" regardless of how many people are involved.

Well since Dad died I have been firmer with her, establishing boundaries and stuff. I used to call her every day, now it's every other day.

She has said that she is upset because our relationship has changed since Dad died. She got that right! I put up with more when he was alive because I didn't want to upset or disappoint him or make his life harder as he would have been dealing with her.

She has only 1 friend, no hobbies, no clubs or anything to go to. I have suggested EVERYTHING but she has a reason not to do anything, often ridiculous reasons. She just likes telling me aabout how bad she feels.

Is it so bad me saying I won't be visiting her this month?

If she needs to see you that badly, could she not contribute to the petrol this time (or any other time for that matter)?
I think that by this stage in her life she is unlikely to change how she behaves and as you don't want to lose contact you need to find the best way of dealing with her, for you, this is not necessarily doing things as she wants but fitting her needs in with those of your family (but I think from your post, you already know that!)
You sound like a lovely daughter who's putting up with a lot.
And no, not seeing her for one month is not bad at all!

Thanks hily, you see if I'm honest I don't want to see her. Now my Dad has gone there is no joy in going there at all. My dad use to talk to me, liste to me, we'd talk about politics, my job, his job, we'd have a laugh. She just moans and give me jobs to do, things she can't do herself.

Often she sits in her chair and wails about how badly her sisters and mother treat her how nobody supports her, how everyone has forgotten my Dad. She speaks to me like I haven't lost anyone.

I think because I have grown up seeing her break down over stupid little things, in front of her I am very guarded. I don't really cry in front of her because I am scared of being like her. On the odd oaccsion I have cried, she just cries louder than me and makes it about her, then says 'we need to cry together more often'

I don't want her to cry with me, I want her to acknowledge my grief for losing the greatest guy on earth.

I am starting to hate her.

As you know, she won't acknowledge your grief except as a reflection of her own. I do have some suggestions for you, though - encourage her to be wonderfully selfish! She shouldn't fiind that too hard, but might possibly be waiting for permission. A year on is about the right time. It's good advice for anyone who's suffering a loss, so you'll be doing the right thing.

See if you can cajole her into going for lots of spa treatments, signing up for new activities and - well, generally getting a life (and fresh sources of narc supply). I persuaded mine to attend a computer beginners' course, buy a PC and sign up to Match ... there was no stopping her after that

Of course you're not being at all unreasonable. It's unreasonable to expect her to properly care about you, though :(

I know I need to give up wanting her to be someone she can't be.

I have suggested everything though. She is not the type of woman to go to a spa. She is very overweight and would not be seen dead in a swimming costume, in fact she has never owned one, not even when I was a kid. My Dad took me swimming.

She won't do a course because she has no one to go with, she won't go alone because 'she is not like me and doesn't have the confidence'

She doesn't want to ever meet another man because they would never match up to my Dad - well that's true, he was a saint where she was concerned.

To make costs cheaper for me I suggested she get the coach to us, as a pensioner it costs her £6 return. But no, she volunteers in a charity shop a few hours three days a week so she doesn't have time to be getting a coach as it would be letting the shop down

At least she has the shop, I am glad of that, but that gives her something else to moan about - the manager is ruder to her, they don't appreciate her, she works all the hours god sends for no thanks, the other volunteers are lazy and she is the only one who works hard.....I could go on and on....

I am starting to realise I get nothing from this relationship, nothing at all.

Dr. NOrtherner, I totally feel for you. I'm in a similar predicament with my mil. Except she's not widowed.

Reading someone else's experience has made me think you're doing the exact right thing. You're firm, won't take any nonsense but you do the right thing by seeing her once in a while.

Is there any way you can stop trying to take responsibility for her by suggesting things for her to do? I mean, you've done that already and she's pooh poohed them. Why would she get up and do stuff when it would mean people stopping doing things for her and pitying her? This is all so familiar!

So, I'd just call her once in a while, listen to her moan on, do not take anything she says about you personally, respond with the odd, brisk, "Don't be so silly.", "That sounds very childish to me, mother," "I hope you can find something to make you happy," but don't get drawn in beyond that.

Simply because I don't think there is anything more you can do than that. So don't feed the monster! Monster is harsh but sometimes I think my mil is this great hungry beast inside a small woman, who is insatiable and you cannot win.

It amazes me how many women there are like this. I just called her now and she sounded like a different woman. " I feel much better today" she said "Yesterday was just a bad day, I'm OK today"

Oh, well everything is aright then now your Ok is it?

I was actually quite quiet and subdued with her but she didn't seem to notice.

Oh well, duty done for today.

I was actually quite quiet and subdued but she didn't seem to notice.

You're still hoping she'll care, aren't you :(

She very likely did notice. All reactions are in relation to her, from her pov, so your quietness merely meant 'attentive audience but no applause'. My mum does notice my mood - if I ham it up a lot - but it's still only as potential self-enhancement fodder for her. I'm learning to manipulate this if necessary

Remind her that phones work both ways. Stop calling her upteen times a month; once a week is enough to make sure she hasn't burned the kitchen down or tripped at the end of the garden. As a bonus, I promise you that:
[a] she'll find neighbours to take care of her in her distress, the poor dear;
[b] she'll only phone you when she needs to complain or is hoping you will.

My posts might be sounding a tad brutal. I really do feel for you, because you've lost your PARENT and are still hoping your progenitor will step up and take his place. She won't because she can't. It's simple. You've got reason enough to feel upset, angry, neglected or betrayed - but not to hate her, imo. That would be like hating your cat for not bringing you breakfast: she simply can't do what you would like her to. She's not wired that way.

Thanks. Yes you are right, everything you say is spot on.

your mum must miss ur dad and prob feels very lonely.not saying u should ve reponseable for her .The phone does work both ways.grief is a terrable thing for both of u.xx

I had this.

My father died 15 years ago, and my mother was VILE to me for three years afterwards. I hated my father, but there was no acknowledgement at all that I had any feelings about his death. It was, as ever, all about her.

She then proceeded to complain about her lack of life and no friends and she never went out or saw anyone and on and on and on. I felt guilty that I didn't see her more and all the rest. I knocked myself out trying to get her to move and suggesting things. She always had a reason why she couldn't do whatever it was...

In the end I told her that I had tried everything I could and that if she chose to isolate herself that was her affair, and she was to stop with the emotional blackmail.

I have got really tough with her more recently and I have to say she no longer says things like 'oh well I suppose I'll see you SOMETIME', as if I haven't seen her for twenty years. She needs me more than I need her these days, so she does behave herself a bit more, but she still can be very nasty, and it's still all about her.

I don't know the answer really. After a year of psychotherapy (me not her!)I still don't know how to deal with it all for the best.

One of my co-therapees said to me that I was waiting for her to die to start to live my life....a depressing thought, but probably true.

And yes, what Grace said is true...she CAN'T do it. Narcs are incapable of stepping up to the plate. I think accepting that is the key really.

Narcissists have no empathy whatsoever. She will not step up to the plate for you Dr N because as grace rightly states she is not wired that way. Its all about them you see, no-one else matters to these people; they are see as "narcissistic supply". They have chosen not to love. She sees your relationship with your late father as competition.

Dr N - you truly do not need to see your mother if you don't want to. You also don't need to call her every other day although the FOG - fear obligation guilt hones into view.

And the 3 worst words you can say to a narcissist - I love you.

Not much an advice but I feel for you. I have waited for nearly 40 years for her to admit that she may have had a teeny weeny bit of responsibilities on how things turned up
Be very grateful that at least you can say that your father was great and hold those memories close to your heart. It is more than other people are ever going to be able to tell themselves.

The older I get the more aware I am becoming of how bad things have been over the years. She ruined my first Christmas away from home as when I rang her she was in floods of tears saying how sad she was I wasn;t there and that it wasn't Christmas for her and my dad without me, she spoilt my wedding dress shopping day because MIl to be came along to and afterwards my Mum wailed for days about how I paid more attention to MIL. he has sabotaged a close relationship I had with my Aunt (her sister) as she was so jealous if I phoned my Aunt and not her - she was such a nightmare over that I eventually just stopped calling my Auntie for an easier life....I used to have to call her every day, if I was gping out I would ahve to tell her in advance of she would leave a series of messages sounding more and more anxious for my safety. When my Dad died I wote and read a eulogy at his funeral to which she respned 'Anyone would think I was not around when you were growing up listening to that' I could go on......

She does mention my close reltionship to my dad but always in a negative way - as to how she felt left out, or sad that I loved him more.

I guess I do feel betrayed by her and a bit neglected. Dh says that when Dad died, in effect I lost both parents. I just need to be able to accept that to be able to move on.

Thanks so much for all your comments, they really do help. It's just so hard to know where to go from here.

It's just so hard to know where to go from here.

not sure myself, but I order on amazon alice miller gifted child
as a starter

That made me chuckle.