what would you say?

[camomileT]

I am seriously considering ending a long marriage. It's one of those situation where kids have gone and there is little left- I was never sure anyway when we got married.

The main reasons are emotional/psychological but as well as this, I just don't fancy DH any more.

He is very thin, and for a number of years he has had these awful brown warty lumps all over his back- like moles, but scaley-it's an age thing I think. he also has lots os spots on his back, and hair, and never washes his back with soap or shower gel etc- just water.

I have suggested he had them removed and he has just laughed it off and done nothing.

I am not saying the marriage would survive if he had them removed, but they are one reason why I don't fancy him.

If he had a gripe against me like this I'd do all I could to make matters right.

I know that MNs are hard on men who say they don't fancy theri wives any more because they have put weight on etc etc- but I don'tknowif I should add this to the reasons when I tell my Dh that I really don't feel the same any more.

It sounds so petty but what annoys me is it is something he could do something about but hasn't. I feel it would be hurtful to tell him how much it does turn me off, but it does.

camomileT I have been in your situation and have since moved out .after 28 years

I think you are blaming the moles (which are called senile warts) but in fact you have just got fed up of your DH.

I found when I had decided to leave and was making my plans that I could look at DH and watch him dispassionately and see his revolting habits and just think "I don't have to stay". I somehow stopped being annoyed or needing to make reference to his gross habits.

When I gave DH a list of his failings it really didnt help at all. It would have been kinder just to say I didn't want to be with him any more.

Now when I see him I shudder but it just reminds me why I left.

I say that you no longer fancy nor respect your husband, so you should be kind to both of you and end it.

I used to try and get my DH to get his teeth fixed...they are quite disgusting and we had the money at the time. Other people have even made subtle comments to me about it. He would be so much happier...he never smiles for a camera because he is self-conscious.

But the fact that he doesn't care, indicates that he actually doesn't give a monkeys what I think or whether he is attractive to me. That was what bothered me most and I think that is what is bothering you too.

I am sure that if your DH suggested something similar to you, you might be upset at first, but couched in a gentle way, it doesn't have to be a big issue.

Anyway, DH never put me first, anniversaries came and went with barely a mention or a hug. Needless to say, now working through divorce. Sounds like you need to sit down and discuss your future hopes, dreams and plans and maybe discuss separation. Try and remember first tho, why you married him and how you felt at the time. You must have had some positive feelings for him then. Time for a good long look at what you want out of life now the kids are gone. One short life, don't waste it. I have a friend who is dying ...she's young. She loves her life, loves her friends and doesn't want to die. We are so lucky to have a choice in how our lives go (touch wood).

Thanks all- you are all right.

The truth is, I feel neglected.

My Dh loves me- friends who know us say it is obvious he does. But he doesn't show it in the way that I need.

he is a very practical person and that gives me a lot of security, which is one reason I married him- after torrid years as a single person I married quite late but had doubts. I was looking for a safe port.

But he's changed really- he is just so boring!

I get no romantic gestures. for example, we have had a lot of illness recently. I had swine flu in November which took ages to shake off-I didn't work for 2 weeks. meanwhile he was at work and I just had to get on with it. Then he had it over Xmas and was in bed for a week, and has just had an operation which has left him immobile for a while. I've been doing everything for weeks- shopping, cooking , housework, etc etc- all of which is fine BUT no appreciation of it. Never a bunch of flowers or any words saying he appreciates it all.

At Christmas he got me a rubbish present( some skincare which is really everyday stuff). My neighbour got diamond earrings, and her DH is already planning her next milestone birthday which is 6 months off.

For my milestone birthday I got nothing as he "didn't know what to do for me."

you can see why I am fed up. No matter how much I explain all of this he doesn't change.

At the weekend i told him I had woken in the night feeling terrified at how the years were pasing ( we will soon be nearer 60 than 50) and all he said was "yes, time flies". whereas I wanted a really seriious chat about how we plan to spend the rest of our lives, AND NOT WASTE IT. I think we are just incompatible.

The sad thing is, he really loves me and will be devastated.

I just need the courage to go.

camomileT - I hear what you are saying about wanting to go and all the underlying reasons, and that this has been building up for a long time.
But for one last shot at trying to improve things - it sounds to me that you are both worn out with recent illnesses etc - would you both benefit from a really good holiday? - a chance to 'dress up/eat well, relax, talk, enjoy each other's company' etc. If you feel nicely spoiled by your holiday, he should (!) see what you need so to feel good on a day-to-day basis. If he doesn't, well, then you are vindicated about deciding to go..

london- that's helpful, thanks.

He did say yesterday that when he is better we should have a break- a weekend away! That in a way is good and bad; good that he is thinking it, but bad in so much as we are quite comfortably off and I was thinking more a long the lines of a lovely luxury week somewhere hot and special!

we have never had anything like that as we have had huge outgoings with 2 kids at uni for 4 years each, mortgage etc etc and never really treated ourselves considering how much we earn and have in the bank- we are not rolling in it but comfortable, as they say- between us we have lifetime savings of £50K in savings- so I reckon we could have a decent break on that!

BUT- I bet you it will be up to me to mention again, as once he is mobile and back to work, he will forget it all- and then out the ball in my court- as ever- to think of where to go.

Have you considered that perhaps he actually doesn't love you enough? I wonder whether you are in fact locked in a script here of believing that your H loves you and couldn't live without you, when the evidence suggests otherwise?

So, instead of framing the story of your marriage as the doting man and the wife who "settled", it's more a story of two people who never loved enough?

I can see that that is worth considering, WWIFN, but I don't think it's accurate.
he is a very quiet, not very communicative man. Words, gestures and expressing himself are not his way - unfortunately.

I don't think I am fooling myself- when we have talked of splitting before, he is in tears and says he love me so much- and that's not just fear of being left talking.

He shows it in the only ways he can- such as checking my car over before I do a long journey, asking if we need anything from the shops if he's passing on the way back from work, always phoning to let me know if he will be late, and saying how much he still fancies me.

But we don't share any "life plan" or dreams, or anything really deep. I just don't think he has the depth I need in a partner.

Well, I don't know your marriage obviously, or his true feelings for you, but I do think love is an action and that these scripts need challenging, when the evidence suggests they are inaccurate.

Your comments about what your friends say and the contrast with your neighbour's husband suggest that you need others to see him as the adoring husband, as much as you do.

What comes through in your posts is your contempt and lack of respect for him and I think when that has taken hold, the kindest thing to do is to part. It would be interesting for you to examine when that disrespect and contempt first started and why? I am wondering, for example, whether if you've always harboured doubts about him, you have remained faithful?

Your comments about what your friends say and the contrast with your neighbour's husband suggest that you need others to see him as the adoring husband, as much as you do.

No- sorry- I don't get that comment. I don't need them to see him as anything- it's my BF who makes those commenets and she has known me longer than he has- she introuduced us in fact.

I am interested in how you think my posts show contempt and disrespect? Disappointment and resentment yes, but the other two- not in my heart.

Faithful- yes.

I would actually suggest that there is a certain lack of respect coming from the OPs partner - if I had a physical issue that I felt was making me unattractive to my partner, I would take steps to do something about it. OP it sounds as though you are outgrowing the relationship. I think this is very, very common and it often seems to be the woman, these days, who is in the one more likely to walk.

camomileT When I joined this thread, I didn't realise who you were. I'm pretty certain I know now and will therefore leave your thread, but I think you will get more out of it if you are honest with respondents.

WWIFN- thanks but I think you are mistaken on whatever you are insinuating.

For very obvious personal reasons, I feel that you (OP) are being a little unfair.

My father has senile warts (he's getting old) but it doesn't stop my mum from loving him. Certainly comparing the presents he buys you to those bought by the neighbour seem a little unfair.

If you don't love him, perhaps you should leave him, it just seems a little heartless.

I get a real sense of your sadness coming through. It feels like you want your husband to know how you feel but how can he when you don't tell him? When he made the time flies comment what stopped you from saying to him you want to talk to him?

I did say that to him and he just ignored it. Moved on to another topic as if it was "just another little grumble".

Years ago- 20 or more- we used to have a dream/goal to buy a 2nd home in one of the national parks- a little weekend cottage. That has gone by the by now due to high house prices and expenses with the kids but it was a joint dream or goal. Nothing has replaced that. I don't necessarily mean in a literal sense- I mean in terms of our future.

About a year ago he mentioned he would like to buy a flat in a city we both love- it would be buy to let with us keeping some weekends free for us. (We know someone who has done this and it works very well). so I spent ages looking online at possibilities and working out the money /loans we would need. I told him what I had done and it was ignored, as if he had never been serious all along, or more he couldn't be bothered to see it through.

I take the point that the presents thing seems a bit callous maybe- I am not a materialistic person at all- but it was an example of how although he says he cares, he doesn't really try to make me feel "special" is the only way I can put it.

It's almost as if no matter how much I try to tell him he doesn't get what makes women tick- or what makes me tick.

When I read posts here about "My lovely husband" and how some men do the hearts and flowers bit, cook meals and really pull out the stops, I feel neglected. His idea of treating me well is to offer to wash my car.

Even when I was really ill with swine flu I was having to dictate shopping lists from my bed - he didn't have a clue what to buy for us,( and one of our kids was home for a while then too) and as for buying me a bunch of flowers or anything...forget it.

sorry this is becoming a rant. I am just convincing myself more and more that I need to go.

I think there are a few different things going on here, in particualr a desire for more romance & initiative from your husband. Sounds like you've stopped seeing him as your husband, and he's become someone who shares your house and pisses you off. Once you get in that mindset, everything he does will wind you up.

Assuming you want to have another try, I'd stop focusing on what HE does for you, and focus on what you can do for your marriage. Once he sees you doing stuff, re-engaging with the marriage, you may well find it's contagious. I wonder, what do you do that's romantic for him? Just tell him you're going to book that week away - he can help you decide on the budget, then you're going to whisk him away.

I think you need to talk to your dh and let him understand how you're feeling - give him a chance to understand why the age spots are bothering you - before you abandon ship. But I think you need to be feeling less cross with him before you do. Whilst you're away, have a special evening to talk about your dreams for the next xx years - each write a list and compare and discuss. Talk about what's not working for you, & give him a chance to change.

That's all really good advie- and I appreciate the time youhave taken. The problem is- have done all of that .

I booked us a weekend away in the autumn and he enjoyed it etc etc but never suggests it himself.

I have talked about the age spots many times and he asked where he could get them sorted- I told him the exact place. I have told him such as "I do wish you would get your back sorted- I don't like touching those warty things- it's a turn off. Never followed up.

Have talked many times about lack of joint hopes and dreams. He might sigh in agreement and say "I know...you are right" then goes back to channel hopping or whatever.

Have told him many times that I am on the verge of leaving due to his inability to engage and take me up on any of this- he looks upset says that is not what he wants- then goes off to shed etc and ignores.

????????????????????

So, not only do you find out where he should get the spots done, but you have to book him in !

Nothing till change if there are no consequences.

I had an issue with my husband. I told him what I felt, why I felt like that and what I wanted. I have noticed every day since that he has listened and has acted.

Your husband should be the same.

I think I'm married to a younger version of your dh! I really do sympathise, its so frustrating to always be the one to point out problems to someone who just apologises but never does anything to address the issue.

My husband and I recently split over something unrelated and for a while it looked like there was some hope that we could work things out but as time goes on its becoming more and more apparant that he is not willing to do anything to change. I was feeling guilty all the time for telling him that I was unhappy and I needed him to be more thoughtful towards me and he'd be genuinely upset about it but still his behaviour stayed the same. Its draining to be in that situation and although I love him I have lost all respect for him and I know I have done the right thing in leaving.

In your situation I would try one last time to confront him but don't expect a miracle and be prepared to stick to your guns if nothing changes. Its a scary step to take but its worth it.

It sounds very much like my relationship in lots of ways, except for the part where u say he fancies you, mine doesn't! But i can totally empathise with the lack of "feeling special"...in our house anniversaries come and go without so much as a peck on the cheek, and the only decent present he's ever bought my was because the kids pressured him into it...it's not about the money either, i don't care how much they cost, all i want is a little thought and consideration, as i do when i buy him things. It sounds like you are at the point i will be in in ten years time if i don't do something about it soon instead of wasting more of my life on someone who really doesn't care about me enough. Anyway sorry to hijack your post....hope things turn out well for you, life is too short.

I am sorry sooze that you have some of the same.

My H does try a bit at anniversaries etc- I get flowers. But he doesn't try at any other time. eg if I had a friend who was ill, I'd take her some flowers or send a card- make a kind gesture.

H never thinks outside the box. I get no flowers, treats or symbols of his love any other time.

I get no "You have worked your socks off for the last 6 weeks, what with being ill yourself, me being ill and having an operation- and coping with Christmas all on your own ( shopped, cooked and did everything for visitng DCs, H in bed out of it) let's go out for dinner to give you a break."

His mind doesn't work that way.

Years back, he asked my mum if she had any ideas re. a present for me- she suggested flowers. "She loves flowers- if you are stuck, always get her flowers." She even told him what colours I liked.

Has he taken this onboard? No.

Sooze

I always got flowers on our anniversary but other times he was just thoughtless. For example when I had just given birth to his first child he disappeared to the pub with his friends to "wet the babies head" and left me to sort out the laundry and entertain his family while trying to establish bf and recover from the birth. I got no card, flowers or even a hug from him.

Although that isn't the reason we split I feel strangely grateful to him now for giving me a reason to end the marriage because he would never have changed. It must be more difficult when there are no other issues but if I'd have been a bit stronger I'd have left him before and it would have been the right thing to do.

This is the problem when you actually get along quite well as friends and have a good family life, it's a hell of a lot to throw away with no guarantee you will end up any better off! One of my close friends is in a very similar situation with her H, she's not happy with the way things are but thinks it's a case of "better the devil you know".