DH and I don't trust each other and are not nice to each other either

[whylikethis]

(disclaimer: I'm pissed off with DH right now so I may describe him as worse than he really is. But the facts are all true)

DH and I have been together for 7 years, married for 4, had our first DC 8 months ago. We've been in the UK for 4 years, coming from a country were people usually don't do housework (as we have people for that) and with a very macho culture.

We fight over housework a lot, as I'm always trying to keep on top of everything and he doesn't. Granted, he's been cleaning the house on the weekends since I was pregnant and couldn't do it, and has continued to do so. He vacuums, cleans the toilet, this sort of things. I do the washing, the laundry, cook most of the days (from scratch), etc.

I'm responsible for DS, as I'm still on maternity leave (and I'm planning to go back part time, so I'll still be the main responsible for the house and DS). DH grew in a family where his mother never ever stopped working and always left DC with nannies. His father is proud of "never having held a baby until his sons were two."

I spend most of my days trying to put things in place, clean stuff, organize things. As soon as he comes home from work DH claims he needs to "rest." That he needs some "time for himself." I don't have time to myself since DS was born. I feel I'm working much harder than he does.

He says I don't trust him. But he's always limiting how nice he is to me "otherwise I'll never stop demanding more and more." In other words, he feels he's working harder than I. (he has a full time job that can be quite draining at times, and feels the pressure of being the main earner).

I think we are always measuring who is doing more, instead of helping each other.

He blames me for his faults. He says that if he lies (stupid lies, like saying he put the dishes in the dishwasher when he didn't) it's my fault, as I nag him all the time. Or if he stays playing on the computer until 4am, that is because "I'm so annoying that's the only time he has to himself" (having played during the day for a couple of hours as well).

I'm so sad as I think he can't really be nice to each other. And there is no way he will listen to me. I do try not to nag, but he is so lazy and so focused on his leisure time that I can't keep quiet. "I spent the day working, I need to rest!" he says. "Hm, I spent the day taking care of a child and I'm not resting?" I answer (to no avail)

Today the baby woke us at 7:30 in the morning (DS sleeps in our bed) and DH said, matter of factly "I'm going to the other room to sleep a bit" and then he got very mad as I said "No, you won't. Why you go, not me?" And then he says I don't want him to rest because "since I work hard and I'm miserable, I want everyone else to be miserable as well." On my turn, I think he's being selfish so I think it's not fair that he will rest while I stay awake with the baby.

And that's like that all the time, the same stupid fights all day long. Sometimes things get a bit better if I make a list of things for him to do, for example.

But 1- I don't want to be making lists for a grown man. It's his house as well, he should put his brains to work on that! 2- it doesn't solve the problem, that is: we don't trust each other and at the moment we don't want to see each other happy, or rested. He thinks that if I nag him he has an excuse to lie - and generally blames me for his shortcomings (not that I'm an easy person, but you get the point). What values will he teach DC, thinking like that?

Sorry for the gigantic post. Hope someone will read it until the end and will give me an idea of how to deal with that. I think at this very moment I'm feeling very lonely and mainly wanted a hug.

PS: For context - I have a history of fighting a lot with all my boyfriends and I usually don't trust people, I admit.

no one? :(

Did you know you would move to the uk, that his Dad was proud of not having held a baby until they were 2, and that your dh was brought up by nannies/cleaners/maids etc before marrying?

If you did then you must have known that you were marrying someone who had no idea what normal family life in the uk was going to be like, and if you did why set yourself up like that? If you knew this stuff before, and you have a history of not getting on with close men in your life maybe you need to explore it in counselling. Did you get on ok with your father/brothers?

Hi MummieHunni, thanks for your comment,

I didn't know about his father, of course, but I knew about his mother. However, it is a bit difficult to find men who are not like that over there. Of course there are some, but it's not the norm... And I made clear to him from the start what my ideas about child rearing were.

I've been to counselling, I may go back to it. I do get well with my father and my brother but my mum is a bit of an overwhelming figure, I'm aware of that. But I think all these issues can be dealt with.

It's the lack of trust and the lying that bring me down in the marriage...

Why not both try counselling before things get worse - you have had huge life changes and seems like time to get help.

I don't see where the trust issue comes in? Unless it's that you can't trust him to load the dishwasher, and that's a non-issue imo.

I'm a sahm (trying and failing to get a job), and life here is much as you describe, save for the fact dh is working when he comes home too, so doesn't have time to help out with housework. He will do stuff at weekends though he sometimes needs prompting.

Can you get a hobby/sign up for an evening class? That way you get some me time, and he gets to put lo to bed/do some evening chores.

Suggest a rota for lie ins (incidentally, your baby not waking you up until 7.30 is a huge luxury imo - doesn't happen here!).

Sorry I can't help more. Am currently putting up with the drudgery, but I don't have the accompanying attitude to deal with, because my dh is really rather lovely and appreciative. Wish you well.

Sounds like my DH, apart from the cleaners and maids, etc.
He also needs to 'relax' after work. LOL.

Sorry about the LOL but my DH's 'hard day at work' went like this...
Left house at 8.40am after not getting out of bed till 8am
Returned home at about 10.15am...sat and ate half his 'dinner' and a cup of tea made by me
Went back to work about 11.15am
Returned home about 12 10 and ate rest of his dinner plus cup of tea made by me
Went on PC, fannying about on social network sites
Returned to work at 2.30pm
Returned home at 4.30pm.
Claimed he had had a gruelling day and promplty buggered off for a bath before laying his weary body down on sofa at 7pm prompt to watch Emmerdale

God how the other half live!!!

shodatin, I would like to have counselling for both of us, but I don't know exactly where to look for (lots of MNers recommend Relate but their website feels like a big wholesale. Didn't feel very confident...)

COCKadoodledooo, I didn't explain very well, but basically both of us think the other is working less hard. So instead of helping each other, both are trying to make sure the other is doing enough chores. Not a very good dynamic...

And apart from that, he is adept of a few lies (saying he's done something he didn't, for example) just to shut me up. And, well, that's not how I want to be treated by my DH...

I can't go out at night because DS wakes several times from 7pm to 11pm and doesn't go back to sleep with DH.

(and it's not that DS sleeps all night - 7:30 is roughly when he wakes up for the day, but there are several other wakings during the night - and these are all my responsibility)

accidentwaitingtohappen, they have a very tough life, don't they? To be fair, I appreciate what my DH does, but it's amazing how we are available for the DC all the time, but our DHs manage to keep their focus on themselves (and their "me" time) no matter what...

You have to be VERY wealthy to beable to afford servants in the UK.

whylikethis try bacp for relationship counselling. It sounds like you could both benefit from working through your issues.

I recommend that you read WifeWork by Susan Maushart. (Theres plenty on Amazon for pennies).

Whilst it doesnt do anything directly to make your husband get off his arse it explores the themes and issues of the modern marriage and enabled me to get my head around a lot of stuff and create boundaries on what I would and wouldnt do. And to try new things!

I don't really have big issues as such. Partner is a bit slack at times but he's very kind. He does do that competetive thing - but I have now got strategies to circumvent that as I feel thats real poison for a relationship.

I do use a lot of sales techniques on him which is basically manipulation dressed up. There is a hell of a lot of truth in 'you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar'. Is that fair? Well we are both adults and the alternative is that he would see me do more and he do less if he could get away with it! Maybe he manipulates me with praise? or with 'i don't know how to do that'.

I think that the key is getting your head straight about the situation and then having boundaries which are not up for discussion. Kind of like what your husband has done with carving out his precious me-time. feeling in control rather than on a slippery slope to serfdom makes a massive difference.

HTH

just get cleaners and nannies and go out more maybe?

basically both of us think the other is working less hard. So instead of helping each other, both are trying to make sure the other is doing enough chores. Not a very good dynamic...

I understand that, I really do. What I do when I'm feeling unappreciated is just do the things that really get to me - I can't abide a filthy kitchen or bathroom for example, so I mak sure those are sorted. I do them for me, and nobody else. Everything else can go hang. Oh, sorry, you needed a clean shirt? Well put it in the washing basket then!

I just make it clear that whilst I know I'm at home, so the majority (note I say majority, not totality!) of the child-rearing and housework is down to me, I am NOT a skivvy or a slave. You put your own dirty plates in the dishwasher, your own pants and socks in the washing basket etc.

And apart from that, he is adept of a few lies (saying he's done something he didn't, for example) just to shut me up. And, well, that's not how I want to be treated by my DH...

Completely understandable. Does he know how you feel about this?

I can't go out at night because DS wakes several times from 7pm to 11pm and doesn't go back to sleep with DH.

If you're not there he'll have to deal with it. Seriously. The baby will adapt (I know what I'm talking about, because ds2 was the same). You do need some time for you and you alone, otherwise you'll crack up.

(and it's not that DS sleeps all night - 7:30 is roughly when he wakes up for the day, but there are several other wakings during the night - and these are all my responsibility)

Know that one too! Ds2 started sleeping through fairly reliably when he was just about a year old. He's rubbish again atm because he's cutting his molars. But, unless you've agreed to it, night wakings don't have to be solely up to you! I tend to get up with ds2 at night during the week, because that's what me and dh have agreed. Weekends are down to him, and if the little sod is up more than a few times in the night, dh will get up to him too.

I don't think it's fair that it's all down to you, and it sounds like you don't either - after all, you chose to have a baby together. ^^That we kinda fell into, I'd got used to doing nightwakings during the week because dh wasn't here during the week until ds2 was 8 months old, so when he started work in September I said I'd carry on. What I would do in your situation is sit down with dh for a chat, not when you're feeling stressed about stuff, because then it'll come across as nagging to him, and just tell him how you feel. Or write him a letter/email him. I know I sometimes email dh if there's something I need to say and I'm unsure how he'll respond - gives us both a bit of time before we have to deal with the answer.

Having a baby together brings a HUGE shift in your relationship. When he hasn't had a role model to show him what to do (does he expect to be like his father?!) then it sounds even tougher. It must also be hard from you being (presumably?) away from family support.

Please don't wait until he 'lets' you have me time, you need to take it or you're unlikely to get any (oh and dh tried the "Well you have time to yourself in the day when he naps" thing once - never again!).

Sorry if it sounds like I'm giving you a lecture! I really am just trying to help, coming from a similar relationship position.

RudeEnglishLady I shall look that one out, thanks.

ILovedYou, we never had servants in the UK. That was back home.

cosysocks, thanks for the link. I think having a third person to help us sort things would be really helpful - I just don't know how much we can afford atm

RudeEnglishLady, thanks for the recommendation. Guess it will be quite useful.

lol @ sales techniques :)

What are your strategies to circumvent the competitive thing? I need that!

(the main problem here is that when I get very tired I can't use any of the intelligent techniques I use with him when I'm well rested and full of energy)

JustForThisOne, we can't afford that now.

COCKadoodledooo, it seems we are very much in the same place. But as I spend all day at home it's more difficult for me to live with the mess, IYSWIM. I used to be more relaxed about housework when I was working full time... (and I know things can get quite dirty before DH gets fed up...)

He knows how I feel about lying (more on that in a sec)

Re the baby, I know both will survive if I let them and go out. In fact, I trust DH much more now than a couple of months ago. So far I've been out during the day, on weekends, for an hour. It's been great for me and I guess helped them bond. The first time was really difficult, but now I'm much more confident. Re nights out, we'll get there eventually :)

Night wakings: as I BF, most of the times there's not much DH can do. And lately most times DS just needs a cuddle or a feed and then he sleeps again, so not a big deal. When DS used to sleep up to 8:30 or 9am, it seemed fair that I would deal with that and let DH sleep so he could work the following day. Now DS wakes at 7am while DH wakes at 7:40am so I'm planning to rotate the waking time now in a way that one of us can sleep until 7:40am each day. Let's see how it works...

Update: I sent DH an email stating lots of things and basically to register all the bizarre things he said to me the last two days. Yesterday he told me I'm right, bla bla bla. Apparently he understood that there is no excuse for lying or anything else. The way he acts is his responsibility, and can't be blamed on me (annoying as I can be, we are adults and must be held responsible for how we react to things).

I told him I thought that the chores, sleep times and so on could all be dealt with, relatively easily. But the lack of trust, the competition, the lack of help and the lies were potential deal breakers (in the long term that can really poison the relationship).

He have created a dynamic in each both of us are waiting for the other one to step in first - to be nice before we change our behaviour. We have to change it, both of us. I think he understood that - hopefully.

But it's not an easy thing to do. Let's now see what happens...

I know you didn't you couldn't afford them here!