What is reasonable?

[MilkMonitor]

I know I'm projecting into the future but I'm really worried about what will happen when dh's mother or father are widowed. Does anyone else worry about this? I'm not talking about the initial first couple of years of being widowed but rather the time when the grief is dulled somewhat and life continues.

They're both needy, dependent, clingy type of people. And manipulative to get what they want. I like them but I know I need to keep my distance from them otherwise I will go crackers.

They currently live 200 miles away. They've spoken about being widowed a few times in front of me and dh, saying, "Oh but I want to go first, darling.", "No, no, I want to go first. I don't want to suffer without you being with me.", and then to us, said, "Oh but of course, you'll take us in, won't you?" Wink, wink.

I really really really don't want to. I've been thinking about this recently because I think it would ruin my marriage.

We've had lots of issues with pil trying to interfere and control what we do with children, our time, who we visit, even what food we gave our neighbour over the Christmas period because he was ill!

In the past, dh and I have argued a lot over their behaviour. It created a lot of stress and I simply couldn't have either of them living here full time. Or even part time.

I feel like I need to make some sort of plan, an agreement with dh in advance over what we both think is acceptable in order to avoid rows and upset in future.

Currently, we see them twelve times a year - once a month on average. If one of them dies, will we have to constantly visit? Make sure they're busy, occupied etc? Mil in particular, has no idea about paying bills, changing light bulbs, packing a suitcase. So, I think she in particular would be utterly bereft - as you would after your life partner dies - but I'm talking the years of widowhood after that.

Can anyone advise on what would be reasonable? Mil is 57 and fil is 64.

I think you are being really really premature, and also quite insensitive.

They are still young - plenty of years of dual interfering left in them.

Does your dh have a brother or sister?

Hi Milk

Good grief these people are not old! You are probably twenty years away from dealing with this. Any number of things could have happened by then. It is just part of the "poor me" game they like to play to engage you in now.

Why on earth can't your MIL pack a case? My MIL goes back packing alone round Asia at 76. You just have to expect more of them and not allow them to play the "helpless" game.

Stand back. They are competent adults but they are looking for carers. It needn't be you!

Dh has a sister. She refuses to see her parents more than three or four times a year.

Dh has told me that he doesn't want my parents to live with us when they are infirm. We haven't come to an agreement about them yet. They seem to think we are going to take them in.

I'm not sure it's insensitive to make sure dh and I are in agreement about certain things. I mean, we've made a will to ensure our children are taken care of, both financially and by guardians should anything happen to us. I don't see this kind of agreement as anything different - planning for something that will and could affect us all.

Given the fact that we've rowed a lot about his parents, I feel it's important to clarify now what we both think is reasonable. But I'm not sure what is reasonable.

Bit surprised at the responses. My own father died aged 67 only a couple of weeks ago. Isn't the average life expectancy for men only 70?

I think you should definitely communicate how you feel to your dh. In a sensitive, gentle way.

I do think from the sound of it some support might be necessary, hopefully your children will be much older and you can feel up to doing a very limited amount.

Milk, my parents are divorced and are 69 and 66, neither of them is in the best health, my father has went into sheltered housing, his own decision, and my partner and myself have said to my mum that she can live with us, (it would probably ruin my relationship but what could I do!!) she has thought about it and having seen my dads place, that does trips out every day in the summer, does bingo and coffee mornings, she has decided that she wants to go into sheltered housing too, she is now on the waiting list, so it may not come to your PIL living with you, check out the options in the area and if anything happens you can maybe suggest it as a short time measure which could stretch on for a while!!!

57 and 64! Bloody hell - how old are you?!! I'm 51 - my parents are both 87 and in their own home (270 miles away) and my youngest child has just left primary. It never occurred to me that I was entering the 'potential burden' age bracket.

I'm in my early 30's, Catwalker. Mil had babies very young.

It's not so much the burden or the offering of support. Obviously, we'd offer support but what is reasonable given they live 200 miles away? We have 3 dcs.

A weekend visit once a month? Daily telephone calls? I just know for example, mil will totally collapse and want to move in with us instantly. That cannot happen and I need to establish what is fair. I can't take total responsibility for either of them and their lives and I fear that is what they'll try to make us do.

Because if we try to do it in the throes of deep grief, it's going to be an even more insensitive and volatile discussion.

I don't think it's necessarily something you can plan for. You have absolutely no idea what the future might hold. But I think you are right to avoid giving them the impression that one of them could come and live with you as a matter of course.

I think once a month with 3 kids is admirable. I have 3 kids and a part time job and, until recently visited my parents once every 2 or 3 months and rang them probably once a week. My sister would probably visit them once a month and also ring once a week. However, my dad has recently been very ill so I have spent a lot of time with them and tend to ring every day or two at the moment. I am aiming to visit once a month now - it's the most I can do. Fortunately my parents continue to resist the idea that one or both of them should move in with me or my sister!

In no circumstance would either of Dh's parents be invited to stay let alone live with us.

I think you can talk now with your dh about what your expectations would be if something happened NOW, but it is really difficult to make an agreement about what you might do if they lived for another 20 years.

You really have to be prepared to adjust your plans and expectations as life circumstances change. For example, my own dm was always bossy, used to be being in control and having everything her own way. 20 years ago I would have had exactly the same attitude as you - no way could we live under the same roof. Now, she is disabled and infirm and her whole approach has changed - she asks for assistance, seeks help in remaining independent and has the capacity to manage her own life only - nothing left for interfering in anyone else's. her illness has changed her, and I've grown up and matured. If it were required I would now have no hesitation about bringing her to live with us.

Laurie you're confusing life expectancy at birth and life expectancy for a 64 year old adult.

I don't think it's unreasonable to start thinking about this - I've been thinking about what I'm going to do with my mother since I was about 20! She has health issues which will make her very dependent some time in the next 10-15 years, she alienates everyone else in her life, and I'm an only child, so yes, this has weighed on my mind for a long time. I have discussed this with DP, because part of me wants to take her in when she gets to that point, believing that to be what family does, but I know I'd end up killing her, and her own brother has advised against this, saying it would lead to serious disharmony in our family and potential homicide.

So no, it's not too soon to have the conversation. You do need to both be on the same page now, to avoid any unintentional offers of help in a throwaway conversation that then get brought up as legally binding in 20 years time.

Laurie - I'm sorry for your loss.

Laurie, I'm sorry about your father and didn't mean to be insensitive. I didn't even read your post properly, I just skimmed the whole thread.

No, it's fine - you are of course right with your calculation

My MIL is widowed and has succumbed to dementia quite early in life ? early seventies ? and because of this I think it is quite reasonable to plan for the future and clarify your feelings while everyone still has their marbles and no-one is in acute need. You never know when frailty and dependence will creep up on people. I think it is admirable if you and your family can manage to do this and I wish my husband's family had planned ahead a bit more.

I think you need to adopt a mixture of compassion and practicality, sticking up for your own needs when necessary. You should never feel under pressure to take an elderly relative in. Elderly people, while vulnerable and in need of understanding, can be incredibly self-centred (the phrase 'second childhood' is entirely apt in my MIL's case), making them a very real strain.

I am quite happy to accept that we have obligations towards my MIL ? visiting often, making sure her care arrangements are adequate, making sure she never spends Christmas or birthday alone etc. etc. ? but living with her would be hell on earth and as you say would destroy our marriage. Just getting 20-odd phone calls from her a day is bad enough.

Perhaps the widowed person living in their own house/bungalow/flat a bit nearer you or one of your husband's siblings (if he has any) might be an option? That way you both have space but are closer to hand in a crisis. It is no joke if you have to drive hundreds of miles every other weekend to sort out domestic problems which they can no longer deal with. We also looked into the granny flat option, but didn't find anything suitable.

Hope this is some help.

Your mother in law is only a few years older than me! What on earth are you worrying about this for now?

I always think the best thing to do is to have no spare rooms. Always have a home that has just enough bedrooms for everyone in it. Then if your 50-something mother in law is widowed, you can tell her that she can't stay as there isn't the room.

If that doesn't work, tell your DH that the day they move in is the day you move out.

Dont think this the op is bu about this.It is something that I have also though about.I could never look after my own mum(currently estranged but my mil would be 10 times worse!.She is a complete hypochondriac but will probably out live fil by years(he is 8 years older,very healthy but just have a feeling he will be one of those people who die suddenly-heart attack while playing golf or such!). I know she would probably expect us to either give her a home or visit constantly(twice a week now) and I just couldnt bare it!.Yes I am a selfish cow

Yanbu

Mine can't live with us - end off!
I'm surprised at how young some of your parents are in homes etc, ffs your 60s are the new 40s no?! No way i would be going in a home so young, I would rather do away with myself, 60 odd is still not old!