Disagreements with DP over Money....

[zebra]

DH is being a prat.
We disagree whether to get DS a 2- or 3-wheel scooter for his fourth birthday. When DH brought up subject again yesterday I only said "Hmmmmm...". When he probed I said, "I don't think we can afford it".

DH has been sulking ever since. He goes into this black mood but still insists on being in my company, and it's like being in the company of the living dead. He occasionally making carping comments about "We can't afford that, though, can we?"

We are in the very weird position of having high liquid assets (inheritance and proceeds from sale of house), but low economic security -- soon won't own a house, and will watch capital being eaten up by rent and difficult-to-avoid other large expenses. DH hasn't had a paying job since last year. He has applied now for 16 jobs in last 10 weeks. Not even had an interview which demoralises him, but 16 applications doesn't seem so very much to me.

I am penny-pinching like crazy which stresses me out deeply, which is why I think we should skip the toy scooter. I hate watching our capital get eaten into. I intend to give DS a big party for his birthday, and 3 gifts total at Christmas. 2yo-DD will get nothing but cake for birthday and one Xmas gift from us.

I'm not sure why I'm posting. If I told you all the details, many would agree with DH's attitude that we have enough cash not to worry, but I can't take it. Too much of a security junkie. I'm trying to pick up more work hours myself, but I don't want to. I have health problems and the children are young enough they'd rather see more of me.

Maybe it would help me to know how other people cope when you disagree with your partner over money issues?

Does your DS really want the scooter or is it something your DH wants to get him? TBH if your DS really wants one, heads straight to one if out at friends or something I'd say get it and have a smaller party. I'm assuming you think the kids will have enough presents from friends and family, could DH ask his parents to get the scooter instead (if DS wants it)?

Lots of sympathy about the financial thing, but wonder why your DH hasn't gone out and got a temporary job, bar work or something, if budgeting isn't his thing? Seems a bit unfair that you're having to look for extra hours whilst he's not worked for so long.....

zebra, i'm sure you know disagreements over money are extremely common, if that is any help.

have you thought about making your assets less liquid? e.g. you can put it into a savings scheme or bond which requires a lot of notice to draw down... then it will just not be so easy to dip into it on an ad-hoc basis...

just a thought. if anything else occurs to me, i'll get back to you.

Zebra I really do sympathise and marialuisa and bossykate have come up with some brilliant suggestions.

Also here is another suggestion why not scrap the party and buy ds the scooter.Point out to dh that you cant afford both so both decide between yourselves which is most important.A party or a scooter.

I am like you, when I feel "financially threatened" I go into penny pinching and scrimping mode.I dont like doing it but it is just something that has to be done.It gets up my dh's nose but it is just tough.Someone has to financially responsible. My dh's money burns a hole in his pocket.

At the moment I am in this mode as Xmas is around the corner so I am saving like mad.

Would your DH go for a secondhand scooter? It's NCT NNS sale time.

To be honest, I think our penny-pinching hasn't done DD any harm at all. She and DH buy me one present for my birthday - maybe a CD - and we buy her one present for her birthday (she was 6 last birthday). She gets showered at her birthday party anyway (and parties can go very low cost if done at home) and by rellies.

If you're so awash with liquid assets that your DH can't see the point in worrying then I agree that maybe it's time to tie some of it up.

and at that age - really - kids dont mind what they get.

i think you should talk to your dh about his moods and why you cant sit and talk properly.

in our house. i usually start by where the hell has all the money gone

DH gets on the defensive

i cry

he talks me through where the money has gone

i get upset at both of our stupidity

and we agree not to be as stupid mext month - but we inveriably are!

its all dusted within an hour!

compromise. tomorrow i am doing ym 1st ever birthday party, have got loads of pressies for dd2 and one for dd1 as well so she dont feel left out, but its the 1st time i;ve been able to do this. how much is this scooter gonna cost? would a second hand one suffice? how about getting the kids to do a huge clearout of old toys/clothes etc, so u can afford to get some new ones? i made about £40 today at a car boot sale getting rid of old toys/clothes that were never played with, and have just ploughed it back into dd2 party tomorrow.
i am someone who will buy things for my kids even if they have no need or want them, because i'm their mum and i love to spoil them. i always try and make up the money somehow, but i'm hoping and praying that dd1 doesnt ask for a scooter for her 4th birthday, i think she'd scare me with it!!!

Thanks Gals.

I think DS would rather have the party and the scooter! He doesn't know about the scooter idea, truly, so he can go without it. I HATE organising children's parties but this means so much to him I am doing it through extrememly gritted teeth. DH is organising our house move so I can't ask him to do the party, too.

Weirdly, it's me who has to justify to DH where our day-to-day money goes (see my comments on Shopping Bills thread!). The idea of DH getting a bar or temp job is too funny; not a chance.... Too much pride. he insists that if he keeps his hand dabbling in the company he tried to start that that will keep his skills base up. He points out that him doing childcare means we don't have to worry about children settling into new child care providers when we move to a new city (this is a very good point).

The day-to-day budget which DH & I agreed to doesn't even extend to buying a newspaper or magazine (ever) or a cup of tea in a cafe. And lots of things are coming 100% out of savings. Moving costs (£600?) for things I inherited from my mom's house including an heirloom, antique piano been in my family for 4 generations, and not many household items are more expensive to own than a piano (?£100/year). Plus 2 items of furniture that are so big (7-8' long) we may never have a house big enough to put them in! Moving expenses from where we live now (£300), a trip to attend good friend's wedding (£200), montly rent of £550-£700 on our next house, possibly £200 agency non-refundable fee on the house we rent, DS's party (?£120), the trip I've been coerced into going on to Italy (?£1000), gymnastics classes I hope to get DS in from January (£35/term) my salary will contribute to none of these. All out of savings.

Oh yeah, I forgot the £3000 on credit cards, but we may be able to keep floating that on zero-percenters forever.

So how can I moan when we do have the money in the bank to pay for these things? Because it feels totally wrong to be living so beyond our means. I can't hack it.
I find it hard to not get extremely depressed about this situation, and there is no one I can talk to about it. My 30+year old friends who couldn't even cough up a £3k for a house deposit won't understand. Another friend suggested I'm actually truly stressed about my mom dying earlier this year and I know it's not that; I really am truly deeply unsettled about the financial situation.

just interested to know why the piano costs £100 per year - I presume you mean in tuning. Why not leave it for a year? When the piano tuner next comes he should tune it up gradually (ie not try to get it back up to pitch in 1 go.)

If you have no room for these things, why not sell them? They are no use to you in storage and as you say, you may well never have enough space for them. Why aren't you buying another house now? If you don't plan to buy again for a while, agree wth BK, put your 'big' money - house profits for recycling into another house - where you can't touch them easily.

Zebra, if your DS doesn't know about the scooter, don't worry.
It's a shame your DH won't get a temp job, my DH is a highly overqualified academic but his attitude is that he'd clean toilets rather than do nothing, sorry but your DH sounds a bit of a snob to me!! Sorry if that offends you but it seems a bit unfair that you're getting this upset whilst he happily spends money you don't have. I think you're right to be worried, presumably you're going to want to buy another house at some point, and I'd be very scared if i was 30+ and couldn't lay my hands on 3k for a house deposit.

Maybe you are upset about your mum, but having a DH who's been unemployed for so long would scare me S**tless too. Do you think that he's really committed to finding work or is he hoping this company he's starting up is going to solve all your problems? As for the childcare, yeah that's great, but only if you are happy to continue as the main breadwinner indefinitely and you can live off your salary, which you say you can't.

This is very llong, sorry if you find it offensive, but I think you and your DH need to have a serious chat about what his plans are and how long he thinks you can continue as you are.

I haven't taken advice about the piano, but I think it may need it's own dehumidifier? That's electricity money. Separate from that, it will take paid specialists (several huge men just to move it into and out of anywhere it's ever kept.

I might sell the pieces of furniture, eventually. They are stored at MILs for free, for now. They won't fetch much and it kills me that I paid for them to be shipped over now that it seems realistic we may never get to use them, anyway.

Yes, DH is a bit of a snob!

I would be stressed too, if I were you. The lack of financial security ( dh not working, house been sold and living in rented)would scare me to death!!
I can't help much - only to say that i agree with the others - tie up as much "big" money as you can, not only to isure against rising house prices, but also so that it cannot be "dipped" in to. I know that would help me to feel better!!

i hope things get better for you

In my experience, and what I have seen from my friends, money is the main topic for arguments between couples.

I read somewhere that the arguments aren't really about money, but control. Could this be the case? You seem to be in highly stressful situation - your Mum dying, your dh out of work, moving house, young family - maybe (and I mean maybe - I don't mean to be presumptuous(sp?)) you are focusing in on the money because it is something you can control?

I'm not sure if that makes any sense, but be kind to each other - you're both doing your best, I'm sure. And at the end of the day - money is only money. Your family unit is far more important. It will all come right in the end.

Take care, I hope it all works out for you.

ps, Aloha: we aren't buying a house because we don't know in which city DH might get a job.

Zebra - our piano tuner fitted a dehumidifier in the top of our piano. It wasn't electric - just a long tube the length of the lid. I assume it must have those granule things in it to soak up excess moisture. It's at my parent's house so I'm not 100% sure of the details but it's not a big piece of machinery!

Zebra, you've got good advice here. Sounds like your DH wants the scooter more than your DS does. So I'd skip the scooter for now. You can revisit the issue at Christmas. I know so many people out of work that it is frustrating and demoralising, but maybe it would be a good idea for DH to just take a part-time job somewhere whilst he applies for other full-time jobs. At least your DH consults with you about presents. My DH went ahead and bought a ridiculously expensive toy for DD. DH assembled it before I even realized what it was. We both generally agree on spending on DD, so luckily it wasn't a huge issue.

Sorry to sound so unsympathetic but at the mo life is shit and I am up to my eyes in debt due to shittiness of life - you have a child and a lovely man you are really really lucky - I read so many things on here that humble me and I promise to stop grumbling about my situation - Beetroots friend dieing is making me buck my ideas up at the moment - I felt awful this morning and now feel like I am actually very lucky in some respects.

I also wrote about how broody I am but then I read the one about people having IVF and others asking them if they don't want children. Sorry to sound crabby but stuff like that makes money worries pale into insignificance for me.

You make good points, Boe. Don't apologise. I know I should cope better and be reminded of how genuinely lucky we still are.

Zebra, I have no advice but would like to say 'you are not alone'. Money is the one thing dh and I argue about and I don't think we will ever have the same outlook on life with regard to money.

zebra, how old is the piano? unless it's MUCH older than 4 generations, it's previously been kept in a much drier climate or you're keeping it in a bathroom it doesn't need a dehumidifier.

Personally, I think it's OK to spend your savings, but you do need to plan and agree it appropriately. If it's OK to be coerced into going to Italy, why isn't it OK to be coerced into buying a scooter? Let's face it, it's not about your ds receiving, it's about your dh giving.

Does dh actually want a new job or would he rather be a SAHD?

Whoa, Boe! Agree that many things make us feel greatful for all that we have....but don't forget that many big, major shittinesses as you describe begin with a selection of much smaller unresolved anxieties. Post on, I say, we can't have a 'hierarchy of disaster'!

Sorry thought I shouldn't have said what I did afterwards but sometimes I read things on here and feel so humble and decide that there are far bigger things we should worry about.

(Hitting me and being an alcoholic are not little things IMO!!)