Chrysanthemum38's story

[chrysanthemum38]

OK, I have decided to consolidate al my posts on the passive aggressive thread into my own thread - well done in advance if you manage to get through it.

Background: DH and I met just over 2 years ago, married 6 months ago, moved in together two months before the wedding. I have never lived with anyone before - had a 7 year on-off relationship with a guy but we never lived together. So I'm not used to living with someone and am used to being in charge and having everything my own way.

So, our marriage so far has been rocky - we have had our fair share of arguments, but I have been putting them down to teething troubles.

This is what happened on Friday and yesterday, posts taken from another thread which I kind of hijacked but was kindly told I should start my own thread:

---------

chrysanthemum38 Fri 17-Dec-10 15:59:25
OK - is this passive aggressive?

DD1 just came home from school. DH said to her "So have you come in the house in your shoes just having walked through hail and ice then?"

Note: we don't live in a no-shoes house, we were both wearing our outdoor shoes - there was a little bit of hail on the drive from this morning and she hadn't left any footprints.

So his way of phrasing the question really bugged me so I said to him in the hall: "She is obviously still wearing her shoes, can you not see them?"
What he really meant to say was "DD1 would you mind not coming in the house when it's icy outside as it might make a mess in the floor."

But instead of asking her directly he makes weird comments like that which annoy me, so I will be deliberately and obtusely literal with him, as above.

The afterwards he said to her: "So, are you planning on staying in your uniform till Christmas then?"

FTR, I don't mind if she wears her uniform in the evening as it saves on washing. But I don't mind if she changes either. So I rolled my eyes a bit at his turn of phrase and when he looked annoyed at my eyerolling I said "What difference does it make if she wears her uniform?" He just scowled and shut the front door without replying.

Pretty much everything he says to her is some sort of PA comment - I hate it.

---------

chrysanthemum38 Fri 17-Dec-10 16:23:46

He just got back from posting our Christmas cards and was clearly grumpy.

I went into the kitchen to talk to him and asked how much the one to France had been as I had put a first class stamp on it and knew it wouldn't be enough. His response: "Does it matter?"

I said "No - just curious." He told me how much it was and carried on making his cup of tea - didn't offer me one, which is a surefire sign that he is annoyed with me. But I didn't want one so it's not an issue other than the fact he is so pointed about it.

I said "Don't be annoyed," in a nice calm sort of way ad pointed out that it didn't really matter if she hadn't taken her uniform off as it saves on washing.

He said that wasn't the point - it was that I had undermined him twice in the space of two minutes.

I need to point out at this point that DD (aged 9) is my dd and his stepdaughter and we have only been together 2 years so their relationship is quite a recent thing. And nothing I said was in front of her, it was all private.

I said that it wasn't that I disagreed with his intentions, I just disliked the way he phrased things sometimes, and gave the two examples and said that perhaps he could have found a better way of putting across what he wanted.

So he said: "So I should have told her to get her f-ing shoes off then, should I? Is that better?"

I said obviously not.

He stomped off up the stairs and as a parting shot said "Fine - fuck it - I'm not going to deal with her again - you can do it all."

I was getting annoyed at this point and firedback - "Well, you keep promising that - are you actually going to stick to it this time?"

To which the answer was a closed door.

I can now predict that he will stay in his computer room ALL night sulking, I will get no help with looking after the kids even though DD2 is only just 3 and needs to be taken upstairs to use the big girl toilet and I hurt my leg running the other day and am finding it hard to get upstairs. If I make him dinner he will probably not eat it and he won't do his evening job of washing up.

And of course it will all be my fault for daring to find fault with something he did.

---------
chrysanthemum38 Fri 17-Dec-10 16:48:25

Oh yes, I have had the "If you don't know what's wrong I'm not telling you" thing. And he does flouce and huff and sulk if I ever dare to disagree or criticise.

But once he is over his pout he will grudgingly admit that I do have the right to opinions of my own, followed hastily by: "And so do I, you know!"

Sometimes I feel like I'm dealing with a three year old - I just want to yell "Grow the fuck up!!"

Oh and apparently he doesn't sulk - he just prefers to be by himself and when I call it sulking it makes it sound like he is being childish.

---------

chrysanthemum38 Sat 18-Dec-10 14:20:41

Last night, I asked him if he wanted to eat with us, purely so I didn't make food, have him not come down, so then the food would be wasted and I would be annoyed.

He said he wasn't hungry - fair enough. I made food for the rest of us and left the washing up deliberately to see if he wouild do it, which is his agreed job - I cook in the evenings, he washes up.

Abot half an hour after we had finished, he came down to make a cup of tea. Didn't do the washing up.

So then I went in and did it. I wasn't annoyed, just curious to see if he would do it - a little test if you like. He could argue that as he hadn't eaten, he shouldn't have to wash up. We didn't discuss it.

Was it PA of me to leave it to see if he would do it?

And yes I had to deal with all the childcare, including escorting 3 yo upstairs several times during the evening to uses the loo, with my poorly leg, which he knows about.

Maybe I should start my own thread, I don't know. He isn't like this all the time, just sometimes - but it's like he turns into a totally different person - one who I intensely dislike and could cheerfully hit around the head wth a frying pan.

---------
chrysanthemum38 Sat 18-Dec-10 22:00:18
I do recognise myself here sometimes also. I might have the urge to correct a pronunciation, or more usually, an incorrect use of a word, e.g. "Did you really mean xyz" - when I know fine well what he meant and I'm just using it to point-score.

But usually it's just that I have the urge to say it, but I can usually restrain mysekf from actually saying it unless I m REALLY pissed off with him - I know it is destructive and bitchy.

Pointing out stuff like cobwebs means "I an mot enjoying this discussion right now so I'm trying to deflect the tension."

I tend to make an inappropriate meant-to-be-humorou remark.

I think we can both be PA - but sadly I am learning how couples argue from him - I have never been a relationship before where we argued so I don't know how to do it. So I basically do back to him what he does to me - it's bringing out all sorts of latent bitchiness in me that I really don't like.

But it gets incredibly exhausting so I prefe to just ignore the entire situation which is what I am doing right now.

He has spent the entire day either in our bedroom or in his study. I have done the entirety of childcare and ALL the washing and drying which we usually share. I took the kids out playing in the snow this morning and we made a snowman - it was great fun.

I didn't make him any tea - didn't even offer.

He went out and got McDonalds.

Basically I am ignoring his stroppy pouty fit and getting on wth my life as if he didn't even exist.

But - get this. He put my Christmas card THROUGH THE FRONT DOOR! When I opened it it had all "To my darling wife" stuff on it.

I didn't know what to do. Why didn't he give it to me, or save it till we were made up? I put it back in the envelope and left it on the hall bookcase.

---------
chrysanthemum38 Sat 18-Dec-10 22:20:40
"Have you asked him to not be sarcastic with your daughter?"

That's what started all this - I dared to criticise the way he spoke to her.

I went into the kitchen - my card was in the bin

I fished it out and hid it behind the cushion.

I don't know what to make of this - this can go on for several days.

The only reason I haven't left is when it's good - it really is amazing. But when it's bad it is so utterly shit. And we have talked about it so many times - he does listen - there are things we have argused about in the past that I have specfically asked him not to do - he has gone off ad sulked about it for ever then agreed not to do it - and he doesn't.

That's why I think there is hope, because he does listen to what I say and will comply - after an extended period of sulking and "punishing" me for daring to find fault with him.

I just wish we could get rid of the sulking.

It's like there is my husband - who is so amazingly wonderful and kind and loving and caring - then there is this horrible uncaring cruel cold individual who sometimes comes and lives in his body. Now I'm crying :(

---------
chrysanthemum38 Sun 19-Dec-10 00:29:16
Oh we just had a massive blazing row! He came downstairs and just sat staring at me with a really cold look. I turned the tv off and was ready to talk but it so quickly descended into a bitchfest. I brought up the card and was told that he had binned it as I 'obviously' didn't want it. Although he did say that he had thought it would be a nice gesture to put it through the door - which is sort of promising.

Later on in the row he called me a stupid cow and I went and got the card and ripped it up in front of him and threw the pieces at him. They are still there.

I tried to point out that you can discipline children with love - you don't have to be sarcastic all the time. He just basically made a derisive noise and rolled his eyes. I said that earlier I had asked her not to do something as it was annoying and she had looked a but crushed so I gave her a hug. He actually asked me to repeat that several times as he couldn't believe it. And then he said it was a total brainfuck as it would give her mixed messages. I said that the only message it would give is that I want her to stop doing xyz as it was a bit annoying but I still love her.

Later on I got a list of my daughters faults: apparently she is lazy, greedy, annoying, selfish and probably a few others I forgot. He ended the conversation by 'warning' me that he would be staying in his room for the next few days. I told him not to leave it too long as we wouldn't be here when he came out. He said "oh good - it'll probably be tidier then"

---------

chrysanthemum38 Sun 19-Dec-10 00:55:54
He just came in and called me a liar as I had gone to bed 'claiming' to be tired at midnight and I was still up texting people and listening to the radio.

He then demanded to know what I was doing. I told him it was none of his business. He insisted so I opened the rightmove app on my iPhone and told him I was looking for houses. So he said "is this how its going to go - you threatening to move every time we have a disagreement?" I told him I couldn't be with him like this and he said "that's a bit of a big statement isn't it?".

Oh and apparently him staying in his room all day is down to me also as I 'choose' not to interact with him. I just told him to go away and turned out the light. He is so nice 75% of the time but it is getting worse since we got married. Before then he was nice 95% of the time and even then I had niggly doubts. I've been putting it down to teething troubles as we haven't been living together long and we are still getting used to each other. Privately I have given it a year which will be July.

-------

That is all my posts from the hijacked thread.

You may now proceed to tell me that he is an arse and we should move out :(

I'll try not to come back with a list of all his good points!!!

Just to let you know - I am still around - I need more time than I currently have to address all the points and questions.

We made up last night - we talked and he did say that he struggles to know how to pitch it with dd1. I don't have a problem with the way he deals with dd2 - he is a good father to her and she adores him.

But it does seem like he is on dd1's case more than I would be - so it bugs me, especially the sarcasm.

I did say after we made up that we need to address our communication issues. What we tend to do is be so relived that the row is over, we brush it under the carpet and not really talk about why it happened in the first place, but when we row all sorts of suppressed tensions come out and I don't like what it turns us into.

And no, when he is in that petulant sarcastic mood I really don't like him at all - but I love him when he is being his normal self, which is pretty damn wonderful.

But every time we row a tiny bit of my love for him gets chipped away and I'm desperately afraid that one day it just won't be enough.

We do have some problems which need sorting out, and maybe it isn't all him. I will keep this thread going and next time it happens, because it will, I will try to be totally honest with what has been said and you can tell me if it's me being an arse or him. Or both.

But I will come back.

Oh chrysanthemum what an awful weekend you've been having. I don't know if you remember but I was on the PA thread too so wanted to comment on your thread but was unable to get on the computer all day yesterday.

This sounds intolerable and awful for your DDs too. They must hear things or at least sense the atmosphere.

Without going into the who is right/who is wrong issue, can you get over this upset as soon as possible to restore peace in the house? You sound pretty feisty, he is obviously behaving badly and the two of you are going to go on clashing unless someone breaks it. I suggest breaking this stage by apologising 'for the part you played in the current problem'. You are not then accepting responsibility for the whole thing - but just for your part, i.e. goading him into hitting you was totally wrong, I'm sure you can see that now and that deserves an apology no matter what he did to provoke you. That could have been very humiliating for him, sounds like something the Victorians used to do to tied up bears in bear pits.

So I think you should apologise. That then would break this issue. You said when things were good between you, they were really good, so do all you can to get back to a good place. Try and remember the things you love about him, tell him, tell him you're hurting and want to let him back in (assuming you do!).

THEN when things are calm and you're close again, that is the time to work on your relationship - again, assuming you want to carry on together. There sounds to be pretty big problems, it sounds as though you tell him how you are feeling and he tells you you're not feeling that way, but are feeling something else - did you say that somewhere chyrsanthemum? It sounds as though he is sarcastic, bullying and stubborn. You do need to address those behaviours and make him understand how they make you feel because they are going to ruin the love you have for him eventually, if they haven't already. But you can't do any of that while you're stuck in your current position.

So, that is my advice! But really, you need to listen to lots of different views and see how they fit with you - I am in a marriage with someone who can be a bully, acts in a PA way a lot of the time, has possible depression, drinks more than I'd like and can be a shit from time to time - I know some people would think there is no hope and I should leave him. But because I love him and he listens to my views (sometimes) and I can see huge changes in him, I am willing to stick around for now and see how far we get. But of course you may actually want to end your relationship - I can see why you might given what you've said - but maybe you want to try again with DH - you have only been married 2 years so it is early days??

Sorry I ccross posted with you there.

Glad you're OK and it sounds a bit calmer in your house.

I know what you mean about brushing it under the carpet - of course you do, you just want to enjoy the improved relations and not start the whole thing up again. That is totally natural. BUT you're right that it will chip away the love you have for your DH - I feel just the same and I know that I am way less patient and tolerant of my DH now than I used to be.

Make a mental note of a time to address it - start counselling in January and enjoy the holidays without stressing too much about it all?

Good posts there, Chrysanthemum and others. It's a great idea to write down exactly what happens in your next face-off, chrysanthemum. It often helps you to see the dynamics of your relationship working, which - naturally enough - you can't do while you're in the middle of a drama.

Enjoy your honeymoon period

to higgle

well when I was married then my exh clearly didn't love me as he refused to go to Relate and wouldn't address a lack of affection or physical relationship (on his part) - if someone is stonewalling you you can put all the effort in you like or you can love them all you like but it won't work.

I actually agree with you in some ways the ideal is mutual love and respect. Just I think that's rare.

Or in the case of my parents marriage (50+) I would say they have compromised at the expense of any personal development or growth whatsoever - I couldn't stand that type of relationship either. Although in their relationship though would say my dm is slightly stronger and more manipulative but they are both rather passive people.

If you are not naturally passive then its hard especially if you pair up with an equally feisty person.

Im very jaded and cynical though so am looking through those lenses.

I do believe in love though but just don't see that many examples of it.

He has seen this thread - he is furious! That's Christmas ruined then. He didn't tell me - just tried to make me guess what I'd done wrong - dropping little hints about looking in my phone - and saying that if I didn't know he wasn't going to tell me.

It clicked when I looked in my phone and looked in safari and this thread came up - although I wasn't sure until I looked on his computer and checked his history. He has hacked into my account and rifled through everything.

I'm at morrisons now - I don't want to go home.

oh no
why was he looking on your phone?
tbh, I think you have been quite fair about what you have said about him.
I'm sure it will be ok
you asked for help on an internet forum, and you got lots of different views, some of which actually side with him. you talked and you made it up.

He's pissed off because, although he barely tolerates me reading on here, he has forbidden me from posting anything about him at all. Ever.

And I have - so I have disobeyed him.

forbidden?!
oh dear
are you ok
can you pick up a friend on the way home?

He won't hurt me - he's not like that - but it won't be pleasant.

that is the most obvious controlling behaviour. how can he not see that?
hope it goes ok
It was my PA thread that led to yours, sorry

We talked. It wasn't pretty. Apparently our marriage is over. All because I asked for advice on here. And lied about it because I didn't want to tell him and further inflame a tense situation.

It's for the best, even if it is hard to see right now. He has a lot of anger in him.

do you want it to be over?
tbh he sounds worse than my H, I think you might be better off?

He "banned" you from posting in here? WTF!! mn is my only chance to vent about my dh and couldnt care less if he doesnt like it.Says it all about your relationship imo. You rushed into marriage far too quickly and are fucking up your kids lives(I know cos something similiar happened when I was a kid).Cut your losses.

Your marriage is over because your husband is emotionally unhealthy and immature.

"didn't tell me - just tried to make me guess what I'd done wrong" - ridiculous

"saying that if I didn't know he wasn't going to tell me" - ridiculous

"barely tolerates me reading on here" - controlling

"forbidden me from posting anything about him at all" - controlling

"disobeyed him" - controlling

In healthy relationships there is a balance and a sharing of power. Also, there is a mutual valuing of each others thoughts, feelings and opinions.

Your husband is making this about you and it is not. This is about him. I'm sorry things have come to a head like this for you.

Oh no this is awful for you chyrsanthemum. I know my DH would be furious despite everything I write being accurate. He would see it as totally disloyal. My DH said he wasn't happy for me to talk to my mum about our couple counselling and I found that really hard as I really needed her support and opinion. But it is actually unfair of someone else to say this type of thing - as long as you agree to not post identifiable details of your DH, there is no reason why you should not seek MN type support. He is being very controlling. Stick to your guns and do not apologise for seeking out that type of support.

In your situation I would apologise for going against his expressed wishes but say that I thought the request was unreasonable in the first place. I would take responsibility for breaking the agreement but say that the mistake was in agreeing to something so unreasonable in the first place.

Hope you are OK OP. I can imagine your Hs reaction being totally OTT. Hope not though.

Oh, Chrysanthemum.

I hid your thread because I was getting so exasperated with the general tone of your replies (not with you!) In a way, I'm glad Mr Chrysanthemum (hello, btw) has reacted so absurdly to your thread ... after spying on you, ffs.

Actually, I hope it is the end of your marriage. You deserve a life where you're allowed private thoughts, in which children aren't expected to anticipate criticism at every turn.

Any chance you could passively-aggressively bugger off for the holidays, Mr. C, and leave OP to have a normal christmas with her duaghters?

My H has asked that I take back some of my lies on here publically so here goes:

He did not hack into my account - I was mistaken - he has his own account and it was his 'my mumsnet' that he was looking at.

He was looking at my phone to check something online to do my sister a favour and I should not have implied that he was snooping.

He did not order me not to post about him on mumsnet, he just made a reasonable request. Therefore I have not disobeyed him I have just failed to comply with his wishes.

Oh, and you are all lesbian man-hating arseholes.

He has left his wedding ring on the dining room table so I guess we are still divorcing over it.

I don't post much in here, but seriously you sound better off out of this relationship. Concentrate on your lovely DDs and yourself now.

OP, have had the same problem. It was one of a list of my crimes and marriage is being ended.

One thing I have noticed watching other couples who seem to get on is they 'pull together' in life. It is not some kind of power struggle and they are on the same team - just something I have noticed when looking at my relationship. There isn't one person actively working against the other. They make allowances for each other....

What a tosser. You are well rid.

You sound very upset. I am sorry that your husband continues to wreak devastation in your life, imposing his whims on everybody else. The timing's painful and I hope you will be able to gather support around you.

I also hope, for the sake of your future happiness, he doesn't come back.

But then I am a man-hating lesbian arsehole.