Tell me about the 'Two Year Rule'

[RockinSockBunnies]

Just reading another thread and the 'Two Year Rule' has been mentioned. Basically, it seems to boil down to the fact that if, after two years together, you're not engaged or married, then you (almost certainly) never will be with that individual.

I know married couples who have bucked this rule (gotten engaged/married after five/six/seven years together) but then, being the slightly neurotic individual that I am, have begun worrying about this with DP. We've been together for a year, have discussed marriage and children, we live together, have a joint account etc. Obviously I'm jumping the gun slightly since there's another year til I need to panic.

But....how true do you think the two year rule is? If you are married/engaged, when did this happen in your relationship?

Stories please

Marantha - Sometimes there are reasons to get married. We got married after 10 years happily avoiding it because at the time it was the easiest way to make sure DH had equal rights with the DC (I was pg with DS1 when we did it) Been married 13 years now, so definitely bucking the statistics then!

I don't think you should keep on "waiting for a proposal" - I think you should take the initiative for getting what you want, and make the proposal yourself. As you say, your DP isn't that fussed about marriage - but that doesn't mean he isn't swept away by you and desperate to stay with you for ever. But he may simply be assuming that by moving in together and getting a joint account, he has expressed his "swept away -ness" and commitment very clearly and sufficiently.

If you want more/different then you need to make that clear to him - not in a confrontational ultimatum-setting way, but as a clear "I want us to be together always, and I want us to get married to state that clearly and publicly to each other and the world"

If you're not saying that clearly to him, then he's probably cheerfully chugging along, assuming that of course this is forever and that you're as happy to carry on without a wedding as he is. They're not mind-readers, honestly, men are much more inclined to say things directly, for good or bad, rather than spend their time guessing what you might want. And they tend to assume that we would do the same, if something was important to us, not sit quietly waiting for them to guess, when we haven't even told them there's something important they're meant to be guessing at.

So make the move - tell him this matters to you. At best, he says "Of course, I'll buy a suit and book the car, lets phone our families tonight and pick a date". At worst he says "Oh. Marriage. No I don't see that happening." and then you have to decide whether you want him on those terms.

Inundated with proposals? Yes. Let's not forget that it was the way to get sex in those days. She was basically being asked for a shag. V romantic.

I really don't think it's fair on your dh to start building up mental stress about this ridiculous rule. AMumInScotland has it right.

Can I give you 'The Two-Magazine Rule'? By the time you've read two magazines, you'll be entirely dissatisfied with your life, body and relationship and will be feeling inadequate. Much better to read Middlemarch on marriage tbh.

I think the rule is from the times when marriage was the same as commitment. But nowadays it's not the case, you can commit to the relationship by other means as well, as has been said here.

I do agree though that if you have been with someone for 2 years and he still claims that he is not ready for a serious relationship, not sure if he ever wants to have kids with you, not sure when and if you can move in together etc, then that is not a good sign and not likely to change.

We were together 7 yrs before we married and have been married for 20 yrs!
Mind you I was 14 when we first got together so I don't think the 2 yr rule would've worked.

I appreciate the need for getting married for legal reasons after a long spell together, but I just don't see the point of making a massive deal out of marrying if already had children and lived together for years.
It's obviously not important to the couple; so why make a massive deal out of getting wed.

RockinSockBunnies
I don't mean this in an unpleasant way, but it strikes me that you've got very confused ideas about marriage.
It's as if you see it as a big romantic thing, when all it really is is a legally-binding contract of sorts.
Also, I am puzzled -if marriage is the 'holy grail' of commitment (not to me it isn't. Although it IS extremely important for legal/financial matters), why you have a joint bank account with this guy?
Why are you living with him?
You have a dd (out of wedlock? If so, if marriage means so much did you do this? After all, shouldn't you be married first? NOT how I feel, but it ties in with your idea of marriage and tradition)
I apologise if there is a sad story behind your dd's birth, by the way. Accept my apologies in advance, I can't know your circumstances.
You do realise that if this guy decides to take all money from account, he can.
The bank won't say, 'Oh you're not married. He can't do it' It's a joint account-marital status is irrelevant.
On the flip side, a married couple can't just access their spouse's personal account, either. A wife can't just say 'I want my husband's money' to the bank.
You probably know this already, but, no offence as such intended, as you are so mixed up about marriage as a concept, it would not surprise me if you didn't.

"there is a statistic that says the longer you're together before getting married, the shorter the marriage. but then that's statistics for you!"

Isn't that just because there's an average length that relationships tend to last, so the more of that time you spend unmarried, the shorter your married time will be? Not that the actual relationship will be shorter?

DP and I have been together nearly 10 years which is longer than many marriages last, have agreed that we'll get married if and when there's a practical incentive e.g. one of us planning to be a SAHP, but I'm in no rush at all until then!

The 'waiting for a proposal' thing is a bit weird though - sounds like a young girl in a Jane Austen novel, not a grown woman living with her partner, with a child and a joint account together! Can't you just discuss it like equal adults?

I was with DH for 11 years before we got married, didn't bother getting engaged!

Marantha - I know the legal aspects relating to marriage (I'm a lawyer ). But to me, marriage is a romantic thing, purely because one can take sufficient legal steps (albeit slightly onerous ones) to secure the same legal protection for your family even if you weren't married. To me, marriage is an outward committment to another person - you're declaring that you love that person and want to spend the rest of your lives together.

Joint account is there for necessity - our salaries go in, bills come out.

Also, in terms of financial security, I probably would want a pre-nup before getting married, since I'm likely to out-earn DP very quickly.

For me, marriage is really only about the romantic element. Because there's no need to get married, and co-habiting is socially acceptable, I really want someone who will makes their vows and commit publicly to me.

In terms of my DD, I had her at nineteen, her father left as soon as I got pregnant (which was not a planned pregnancy). I think, having been a single mother for nine years prior to meeting DP, it's made me realise the importance of marriage more.

Ephiny - I know I sound a bit Jane Austen-y. In every other sense I do act and live as a 21st century woman. But I want DP to go down on one knee and ask me to marry him. I don't want to propose to him. Nor do I want to push him on the issue. We've discussed it, talked about possible timing (towards end of next year is a possibility) but I don't want to just sit down and calmly arrange it. I want an amazing, romantic, over-the-top proposal.

"I want an amazing, romantic, over-the-top proposal."

Fair enough, but you might want to tell him that

I know you probably think it isn't romantic to talk about it, and he should just 'know' your fantasies, but he can't read your mind and it would be risky for him to assume you want such a thing, as other women (me for example) would hate it!

RockinSockBunnies

You sound like me a few years ago (I hope that doesn't sound patronising). I too wanted (in theory) a big romantic gesture of a proposal. Not because I thought that the man ought to ask or anything like that - more just because I wanted a romantic gesture from my DP.

However, I also wanted to get married - and I wanted it a bit quicker than my DP was getting round to it.

In the end, you have two choices.

(1) Ask him yourself or ask him to ask you. You'll lose the big romantic gesture, but you'll get married sooner. (Or you'll find out sooner that he doesn't actually want to marry you - which if true is clearly better to find out now rather than in a couple of years).

(2) Wait for him to get round to it. At best, you'll get the romantic "unpushed" proposal that you want, but it will be later than you were hoping (and you may well get pretty annoyed about waiting in the meantime, with the result that you may not feel quite the same about the proposal when it does come). At worst, he will never get round to it and you'll have wasted your time waiting.

I chose option (1). We got engaged about 3 years ago and are very happy. If I hadn't pushed I expect he'd have proposed this year.

PS. The Two Year Rule is utter bollocks.

should clarify, we did of course get married after getting engaged

You definitely need to tell him that's what you want - i know that loses a bit of the theoretical "romance" of the whole thing, as he's supposed to be so magically in tune with your soul that he knows this without you ever having to whisper a single word about it. But, out here in the real world, clear information makes it much more likely to happen.

RockinSockBunnies.
If you don't wish to force the issue, then you might have a long wait.
I can only go by wait your partner tells you and he appears non-plussed about marriage.
From what you say, it is no big thing for him so I doubt he is going to be doing the 'on one knee' bit.
The best scenario I can see is that you sit down and discuss it calmly with him and see if he thinks it a good idea to marry, but given that you can sort out the legal/financial stuff WITHOUT marrying, it is only a good idea on a romantic level so this is hardly what you want.

The worst scenario is that he is not being truthful with you and marriage IS a big deal to him but not with you.

I don't know what to say. I'm just being logical.
Seems you want to lead the life of a 21st century woman without realising that this is fundamentally incompatible with the knight-in-shining-armour business

If you really, really want all that stuff, I suggest you move out, deny him sex, and generally act all aloof and distant.
Maybe then he will be driven enough to do the hearts-and-flowers stuff.
I'm being half-serious and half sarcastic but I don't know how ELSE you're going to get the dramatic gesture.

RSB: You might want to consider that a man who spontaneously goes down on one knee and makes a loverly super-romantic proposal is a man who has traditional views. So you might have a loverly traditional divorce on your hands once you start out-earning him.

As to this two-year business, it's predominantly heteronormative monogamist crap because it's starting from the assumption that all 'relationships' should involve a linear progression towards commitment, when commitment is not compulsory and if more people got their heads round the fact that it's fine to have loads of casual relationships or long term non-commited ones if that's what you want, and you are honest about it, there would be less unhappiness.
The only way I can see it being useful is, if you are a woman in your early 30s and feeling broody then 18 months - 2 years is long enough to work out whether a 'not sure if I'm ready for fatherhood' bloke is ever going to be ready or whether you need to choose between this particular bloke and parenthood.

StuffingGoldBrass, could not agree more. The super-romantic proposal is usually made by man who has traditional views and/or being denied full-time attention of girlfriend and sex.
How many guys really act super-romantically when they've actually got the woman all to themselves in a secure, loving relationship?
Not many at all.
When the socks lie mismatched on the floor, romance goes through the window.

What a load of tosh....!!! DH and I were together 10 years before we got hitched..!

Relationships vary so much and it really is down to the individuals.

However I can see that a problem could occur if one partner believes in this rule and pushes the mariage agenda too early for the other partner. This could result in one partner issuing ultimatums and the other feeling rail-roaded. Or one partner waiting passively for the other to be a mind reader and propose and then if it doesnt happen, leaving or sabotaging the relationship.

As long as there is movement and growth in a relationship (along with mutual trust and love) and it isn't stagnant or fractous then I really do not see a problem with a very long term realtionship before marriage or no marriage at all. Isnt marriage about being with the person for the rest of your life? So does it really matter how long it takes to make this commitment?

Also marriage is not going to prevent a relationship form breaking down. We wouldnt have divorce if it did this.

Complete bull shit. So many people are never married but have perfectly happy life long relationships together or spend 10 yrs or more before even thinking or being able to afford to get married. I was with my now dh for 4 years before we got engaged and we got married 9 weeks after the engagement! Still together 5 yrs later so nearly 10 happy yrs together now. Total rubbish. There are no rules or rights or wrongs with these things.

Meh, DH and I were together 7yrs before we moved in together, 15yrs before we married.

Most of our freinds who were getting togeter when we met have done all that and been divorced now.

Though, he did proposed after about 2 yrs. I said no and that I didn't appreciate him deciding that it was time for such a big step without being consulted.

Not much of a romantic me.