In love?

[whethergirl]

I'm really confused about my feelings about dp, just wanted some feedback and wondered how you felt in your relationships and why you have decided to be with your dp?

Met someone a year ago after being single for 5 years. He was really into me right from the start, I had a few niggling doubts but I guess he kind of won me over with his keeness. Also, I thought he had some lovely qualities - very trustworthy, very considerate and caring, intelligent. He is a lot more dreamy/romantic than me, feels we are soul mates and mentioned marriage after only a few months of dating (and I've now noticed that's how my other two main relationships began - with the dp being very serious and full on very early on).

I'm just not sure that I'm "in love" with him or how important that is. He would do anything for me, always complimenting me, incredibly respectful towards me, helps me whenever and however I need, always ready to listen, never gets in a hump with me and places my happiness as a priority. His love is unconditional - and i'm not sure that's even a good thing. What's more, he is so good with ds and ds has become very very fond of him - he has no contact with his father and is so pleased to have a father figure in his life.

On the downside, in this past year, he has had severe depression for 2 months, a drinking problem (not a bad drunk but turning to drink instead of facing up to problems), financial problems due to his bad spending habits (spent some money he was supposed to be using towards our future). I helped and supported him through the depression and drink, (which are now resolved) but the financial mess was the last straw and I told him to get his act together.

We get on well, never argue, life is fairly easy with him as he is so easy going. He won't ever mistreat me and he is good with ds who adores him. Is this good enough reason to carry on the relationship?

I mean I read some threads on here by women who write about completely unreasonable dp's, who behave in ways I just don't think I could personally live with. As well as more subtle issues, there are threads by women who have just found out their husband is cheating for example, and so many replies that encourage them to sort it out. Whereas I think that sort of thing is unforgiveable and irrepairably damaging to the relationship.

Mmm, but you're reading threads on a relationship problems board ... It's a skewed picture.

The financial irresponsibility would be a deal breaker on its own for me i think. He sounds a bit whiny and a bit poor me its all my fault type and i think this is designed to make you feel sorry for him.

I ended up marrying someone i wasnt really into , and it went horribly wrong. You cannot stay with someone out of pity , and you dont need a good eough reason. The fact you dont feel the same is a good enough reason.

You've actually got him spot on dignified, he is very much a poor me victim.

The financial thing is a long story which I posted about quite recently, and it was really quite a mess which showed complete lack of responsibility and matureness on his part (he blew £12k that he said he was going to put towards getting a place together for our all important future). But he couldn't understand why that made me lose some respect for him, because in his eyes, love conquers all, you love someone faults and all, through thick and thin.

He is coming over tonight for a chat. Yesterday he said I can't help who I love and don't love. Today he is determined that it will all be resolved, and that "he won't let nothing destroy us".

Sounds like hes big on the dramatics of it all " wont let nothing destroy us ect ". Sounds too like hes got very set ideas on relationships and expects you to share them .

Of course being financially irresponsible is a big deal , if hes expecting you , or anyone else to overlook these huge blunders in the name of love hes in for a bit of a shock.

These victim types often have the ability to turn into emotional abusers , they get you to feel sorry for them and before you know it you start feeling responsible for them. In truth they are not as nearly as helpless as they make out.

People who are irresponsible in one area of their lives are usually irresponsible in other areas too , its not usually limited to finances. He sounds immature and boyish and unable to see things from your perspective , im not liking the sound of him very much.

His determination that nothing will destroy you isnt romantic ,or a measure of his love , its an attempt to manipulate you into continuing a relationship you dont want , and that isnt ok, What self respecting adult wants to be in a relationship with someone who doesnt want to be in it. He sounds desperate and needy.

I married someone just like this , aparently easy going , laid back , do anything for me ect . I had niggles and tried on occasion to get rid of him , hence lots of tears on his part and hand wringing with dramatic words straight out of a drama film.

He too was a victim , nothing was his fault , things never went right for him , and i can tell you , nice guy my arse , he turned out to be the worst abuser i have ever come across , and its took years to shake him off .

You might find that during your chat tonight you get a glimpse of his real persona, ie , after all hes done for you , what about your son , he doesnt care if you dont feel the same , what more can he do , beg , beg , beg , feel sorry for me ect . These men cling like a child clings to their mummy , wanting constant kisses and cuddles .

It sounds like your already feeling responsible for him which isnt good .

Well you've certainly been there dignified, so thanks for sharing that with me.

I remember when we first met, he told me that he was sure we had met in a previous life and that we were soulmates. He also went to great lengths to get on with my ds. At the time, a friend told me, he is trying to make it difficult to not to be in a relationship with him.

To be honest, I'm not even sure what to say tonight. I really don't know. I don't think I'm ready to end it completley.

I do resent him coming out with his victim statements, they are beginning to really bug me. I think the worse one ever was (when I accused him of being selfish for blowing his inheritance money when he had a family to think about) "Do you have any idea what it's like trying to make the world a better place, only to have people bring you down?".

I just can't cope with that kind of intensity.

"Do you have any idea what it's like trying to make the world a better place, only to have people bring you down?". sounds like pure victimhood to me, it's not HIS fault, is it?
If you don't end it cleanly I suspect that it'll get dragged on for ages, you unhappy and supporting him, but unwilling to take his blame for leaving. He's sapping your will already.

Do be carefull Wethergirl , thats quite an absurd statement he came out with there . With a normal healthy adult you could probably turn the intensity down a little , dating casually , but with these types its all or nothing . Theyve got to be in love all the time , your soulmates ect theyve never felt this way about anyone before , theyre in love with the idea of being in love . And if you dont feel the same , they,ll happily pretend . For a while anyway.

I think they are pretenders , fantasisers , fantasising about their own self importance , whinging about how picked on and misunderstood they are .I wonder how long it will be before hes whinging that you are victimizing him .

These people always want more ,more attention , more time , more affection , more love , they are draining with their constant victim statements and their persistant talking about themselves in the third person and how nice they are . They are feeders and will suck you dry.

There is a book called living with the dominater thats part of a course taught by womens aid. It details the differant types of men to avoid and comes with funny cartoon sketches of them. One of these is The Victim , the nice sensitive guy whos so laid back he could fall over . You feel like youve kicked a small child when you have to challenge him.

Out of all of these charecters , i think The Victim is the worst , as he is hard to spot , and highly manipulative . An excellant disguise if you like . Maybe i am a cynical old fart , but i think your freind was right.

Taghain, sapping my will - is a good description of how I have felt with him many times.

Dignified - looks like a great book, I've just ordered it on Amazon.

We're not having our chat tonight after all, he's popping over tomorrow but think we'll probably chat at the weekend.

Honestly, on the face of it, he seems like the perfect man and that's why this is so hard. He texts everyday, is romantic, thoughtful, helps with housework, complimentary, supportive, if I say jump he'll jump, etc. Actually, on the supportive note, I do find sometimes he is a bit OVER supportive with me if that makes any sense, not once has he played devils advocate or challenged me, he'll immediately and fiercely support me - almost in the blind way a mother might do. And once, when I seriously challenged him (about the money issue, and not in a bitchy name calling way, but in a true outlining problems way), he couldn't understand how I could say that to him if I'm supposed to love him. Which is one reason I'm going to find our chat difficult, he is so ultra sensitive and fragile like that.

Ultra sensitive men often have childlike fragile egos and cant take any kind of critisism , often theres tears " you dont love me " , or worse , a tantrum when they are challenged.Think of the devastation a toddler feels when told off by mum. Theres meant to be this absurd unconditional love from their partners.

I couldnt be doing with this love conquers all nonsense. In a way hes telling you ( niceley ) that your expected to overlook all his faults if you love him. A very childish outlook really and not one thats going to serve him well in the adult world of dating.

I suspect his constant niceness and supportiveness is not done for you , but for him , so that youve got no possible reason to end it .

Blimey dignified, ever thought of becoming a psychologist? You're good at this.
And actually his constant niceness does make me uncomfortable, and now I see why, because I know it's often not genuine and there is manipulation behind it.

He popped over to drop something off tonight, I tried to ignore his desperate pitiful looks and not eating with us because "I've lost my appetite". He then texted me on the way home to say he want's us to be together and he doesn't know what to do, he's sorry if it's his fault and that he's feeling lost and empty. But that he would give me space and time to breathe and decide what I want.

I would be very very surprised if he actually did as he says , give you space. Its more likeley he,ll send you presents / flowers / discussion about sons present , or send you silly text about how he cant blame you , your too good for him and hes such a loser ect. Has there not been tears from him yet ?

The thing is , even if you could overlook certain things , ie not fancying him that much , its not possible to overlook a lack of respect , and eventually , after one too many pitifull looks or statements from him , any respect you have for him will be gone.

The sad looks , not wanting to eat , its childish and manipulative , desighned to make you feel bad and therefore control your emotions . And i assume this was in front of your son . We tend to think of controlling people as shouters or bossy people , but in reality it usually doesnt require aggresion , as sulking , being pitifull and a victim works just as well and is very subtle .
Its usually only when these tactics stop working that they escalate to more obvious attempts to manipulate.

All hes doing is clocking up obligation and emotional debt . He might even say it doesnt matter that you feel that way , because for now he,ll happily pretend that your soul mates / meant to be together / never felt as close to anyone as he does you .

While hes happily pretending , you might one day find yourself saying or doing something that shatters his illusion of soul mates / all forgiving love , and he,ll be outraged that youve made him stop playing pretend . Your not to shatter the illusion with these guys , as you found when you mentioned the money thing. They expect the sort of happy ever after love you read about in fairy tales.

It sounds like hes worked really hard to build up this emotional debt so now you sort of "owe " him . What do your family and other freinds think of him ?

OMG dignified, some of what you've said is spookily accurate ie
"send you silly text about how he cant blame you , your too good for him and hes such a loser ect." Check.

He hasn't had a full sob in front of me, but he has become tearful.

He was quite subtle when he was here, ds didn't notice, he was too busy climbing the walls.

He emailed me this morning, saying he doesn't want to put any pressure on me and that my happiness is of most importance, there's no rush for a decision to be made. He also talked of his financial problems which are "crippling" him, and that symptoms of depression are returning . He appreciates the support I gave him during his last bout of depression, and doesn't want to put me through it again but he doesn't want to lose me - he doesn't know what to do. He says he doesn't want me to be with him because I'm afraid it'll make him go over the edge or because I feel sorry for him, and that I should just be true to myself. He did say he doesn't want to be in a relationship if he's not wanted, as he's done that before and it's just embarassing - so I'm glad about that.

Re his financial depression, he says he feels very scared and alone, and really misses his (deceased) mum..."She would never judge me or would I have to be strong with her. Still a little boy deep, down who misses his mum." AIBU for that not enticing any sympathy in me whatsoever? (He's 50 btw). Like you said dignified...the example of unconditional love from a mother!

I told him I would still support him with his depression as I do care about him, however I won't let it get in the way of any decisions I have to make. I've offered to pay him some money back that he lent me a while ago which I tried to pay back at the time, but he refused. But I did say that with him feeling depressed, it would be quite difficult to talk about our realtionship and my concerns (so how to progress? ) Not at any point has he actually asked me what the problems are. We were supposed to go through the email I wrote a while ago that he flipped out about, but I don't think he'll be able to handle it at the moment. An ultra sensitive, over emotional man WITH depression and an idealistic impression of what love is supposed to be....it's just not going to go down well is it.

Scuse the essay!

It wouldnt get any sympathy from me either . I think whinging to you about his depression and money problems is highly manipulative at this stage . Hes saying he doesnt want you to be with him just because you feel sorry for him , but yet , thats exactly what hes trying to acheive isnt it.

I would retract the offer of supporting him with his depression , hes an adult and if hes depressed he needs to go to the gp and get apropriate care , not whinge to you about it.

He sounds like such hard work . I dont think i could bear to be around this sort of thing again, its just so draining . Have you decided what your going to do yet ?

It's just so confusing because I think he does tend to contradict himself like that. If I told him he was whinging or feeling sorry for himself, he would just say "But i'm just sharing my feelings with you. Aren't I allowed to have feelings?".

Thing is, I can't help BUT feel sorry for him at the moment (maybe that's my weakness). I mean it's horrible to not want to end a relationship when you think the other person does, and depression - I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy. The financial thing - he made his own bed there.

He is going to see his GP like he has done before. I have had depression myself in the past, in some ways it makes this more difficult for me because - I suppose in a selfish way - I don't want depression to be a part of my life again, I've already wasted enough time/energy with that. I feel selfish and unreasonable for feeling this way...how can you let something like depression, which is an illness, affect your decision about whether you want to be with them or not? I know it's not the only reason, but it has been niggling at me. It's not any different to abandoning your partner because he's contracted a serious illness, or become paralysed...is it?

I haven't decided, I'm too confused, I keep changing my mind and just finding the whole thing really difficult to process.

I think that if you were really into him , him being depressed wouldnt be an issue .

Another thing is , the feeling selfish and unreasonable , i think many woman are raised / taught to be nice and put other people first , resulting in us feeling guilty or selfish when in fact , we,re quite entitled to put our own wants and needs first sometimes , and its perfectly ok to not want a relationship with someone. You dont owe anyone anything.

Anyway , of course your feeling selfish and unreasonable , not surprising when hes working so hard to make you feel like this , as subtle as it is.

I am a sucker for feeling sorry for people because i empathise with them , too much probably , and its got me into all sorts of horrible situations . I also tend to assume that everyones like me , and theyre not.

Something i identified when i was at counselling , was that i had stayed with my idiot ex mostly out of pity and guilt . Thats nearly all my adult life wasted putting someone else first . I also realised that i had continued freindships out of misplaced guilt and feeling sorry for them.

Nowadays, the minuite i feel sorry for someone i take it as a massive warning sign that something is wrong . I feel more guilt for some of these snide idiots than i would for someone who is terribly disabled for example. Thats not right.

Some people are very intuitive and know exactly how to push your buttons , inducing guilt , a sense of obligation and getting you to feel guilty . What your P said when challenged about the money thing , about making the world a better place has really niggled me.

Does he often say daft things like that ? What is it that he actually does to make the world a better place ? My ex used to say absurd things all the time , they literally made no sense at all , and he would drasticly change his opinion when challenged or crumble. He had no sense of self and just seemed to copy and mirror those around him , i strongly suspect him to have severe Narcisitic traits.

I am wondering whether you are a supply to this guy , someone to feed off , whinge to and boast to.

Maybe a list of positives and negatives would help you see things more clearly . Also , never mind all his grand gestures and words , how do you feel when your around him ? Narky , irritated , calm , happy ? Think carefully about this .

Yes, the making the world a better place really niggled me, it's one of the things that I really wanted to talk about. Because I thought it was really pathetic and statements like that just make me lose respect and make him look really immature. It's strange because on one hand he has the "poor me, I try so hard" thing going on, but he is also very quick to critiscize himself, calls himself an idiot quite regularly - for silly reasons. This is also off putting for me. When he is being self deprecating it just gets on my nerves...like I'm supposed to step in and defend him? I just end up losing respect for him. So he has very low self esteem rather than being Narcistic.
What others think of him...my cynical friend sussed him out from the start, said he was a victim type straight away and that he had addictive tendancies (spending money, alcohol, being in love). Although she does think he is actually a lovely guy, but with issues.
Most people who meet him really like him, he is very amicable and warm. I spoke to my cousin about him the other day, she said everyone has issues, and even mentioned the way he has bonded with my ds and said this was quite rare and I may not get that with another man.