DH home at 4am after Xmas work party. Drink again!

[Esme69]

I am so tired and pissed off with my dh. His is the boss of his company. They had their work do last night. He assured me he would be home between 2 and 3 and although I thought this was excessive I let it go, on the basis that it is not unusual in our small town, (rural northern ireland) for nights out to finish up 1am ish, and he promised me that he would "pace" himself and be sensible.

(He has had problems with alcohol abuse in the past, basically he is the type of guy who just doesnt know when to go home) and loves the pub atmosphere etc etc. It has casued strains in our marriage and we have had counselling, largely he has moderated his behaviour and was great for a year or two, but this is the second time in the last month he has pulled a late one. He went out one night a few weeks ago was to be home by 12 and instead rolled in at 3am.

To put this in context, last weekend he had two nights away with his brothers for a 40th, and that was a boozy one, then last night, and now this fri he has a boozy long lunch arranged with a business associate which will start at 1pm and end at 6 or 7 or possible later.

Currently he is sleeping it off in bed. I was so upset and worried up until 4am wondering what time and what state he would finally get home in, i couldnt sleep, never can when he does this, i ended up taking 2.5mg of valium just to relax me and help me get to sleep.

I have done this before, as I get so hyper anxious now around this issue.

We have 5 young kids. I have done everything with them this am, and am now going to take them out for a walk while he sleeps it off, there is no point in dragging him out of bed as he would be useless to me anyhow.

We were meant to be meeting a couple we know for dinner tonight, and I was really looking forward to that, but now I am going to have to cancel that as I am too exhausted, after 4hours sleep and looking after the kids I will be hauling myself to bed by 8pm. So he has ruined that too.

I am so fed up with this issue in our life. I other ways, he is a good and supportive dh, but this is just sapping me.

Any advice as to what I ought to do in the short term? I know about al anon, have been to them once, but tbh, i felt it wasnt the place for me as the people there were dealing with loved ones who were killing themselves through drink. He is not killing himself through drink, he is just killing mylove and respect for him.

Has he always been like this?

Or have there been triggers? Is it work stress? Or the work atmosphere - ie, is the expectation that he'll be the life and soul down the pub, and that long boozy lunches are the norm?

It may help to go back to counselling, as that seemed to have some effect before. It may be that your marriage will survive, but will need regular counselling to keep things on track for a year or two at a time. So you need to think about whether you are happy, in the long term, to live within that sort of marriage.

Also, it's not good that you are unable to sleep until he's in, and having to take valium. Do you feel responsible for him?

In the first place, why is it excessive for him to come home around 2-3am after his work party? When I was married and working in advertising I was often out late and rolled in around 3am, even later, and as long as DH was expecting me to, there wasn't an issue. Long boozy lunches around Christmas were the norm, I loved them at the time but I couldn't imagine wanting to do it now. I wasn't an alkie either, just loved a sociable drink (actually several!).

There's a difference between alcohol abuse and loving the pub so I think you might need to differentiate between the two. He obviously loves his drink but what does it do to him? Does he lose control, have blackouts, do crazy, upsetting things? If he's a businessman, unfortunately a lot of this type of socialising goes with the territory and he'd probably resent you if you forbade it.

Perhaps you shouldn't have arranged to go out to dinner tonight, knowing that he'd had his work do the night before. You are obviously very anxious around this issue and I can appreciate that, but having to take valium because he's a bit late suggests that you might need some sort of counselling for yourself. I don't think al-anon would be appropriate in your case, forgive me. Sounds like you have an awful lot on your plate with so many young children and being at home all the time. Maybe the issue is more around him not doing his share at home and spending too much time at work and it would be totally reasonable to discuss this with him. What's your relationship like generally?

Most people need more than one visit to an Al-anon meeting to appreciate how much they can be helped by the programme, whatever their loved ones are doing, and most members are not on Valium.

Agree with the last point justified.

OP - are you home all week with the kids? If so, you probably look forward to weekends as a break from routine, which will make all this seem worse. Do you have totally separate roles? ie him working all hours and you having to care for 5 young kids? Because if that's the root of the problem (and tbh it wouldn't suit a lot of people) then the drinking may just be a symptom which you're focusing on, rather than the real underlying issue.

Yes, your reaction seems a little extreme given the situation which makes me wonder whether there isn't more going on in some way - perhaps much deeper anxieties you have about the marriage and the family which your DH's love of a good night out is a suitable scapegoat for?

You said what I said Sleeping but in two succinct lines!

My anxieties around his drinking go back a long way. Basically, when we got married, we both loved a drink, were party animals, but then when kids came along, i now enjoy a drink as much as the next person, but do not get messily drunk.

He on the other hand, drinks to the point where he staggers around, is incoherent, passes out, has pissed in the bed, and in the sink, and driven whilst drunk. All of that has happened in our marriage whilst we were raising a young family, and he was working and playing very hard, whilst I (completely willingly) took the SAHM route, and I have NO issue at all with that, or the role I have chosed.

But I do have an issue with his behaviour. I am not saying the valium is an appropraite way to deal with this, but at 4am, when you are wide awake and stressed to the hilt wondering if he is going to fall down the stairs or leave the oven on or piss the bed, then I reach for the nearest and quickest thing to relax me so that I can get the 3 or 4 hours sleep I need befroe I get up with the kids.

I think it is selfish in the extreme of him to be out till 4am, and be completely pissed to boot when we have young kids and it ruins our sunday. Particularily when he is just back from a lads weekend last weekend, had a night out on thurs with his mates, then two night later out till 4am with his work crowd, and set for another piss up next friday.

I mean, their is enjoying a drink and the pub, and then their is selfish unhealthy and destructive behaviour, and this is what my dh is displaying in this instance I believe.

That sounds shocking - it's way beyond going out and being social. He's treating you and his family with a total lack of respect.

I think there needs to be lot of unpicking about why he feels the need to do this. Is it an addiction? Or just that he loves to party so hard, and is part of a work and social culture which accepts this way of operating?

It also sounds as though you lead very separate lives. You may willingly have given up work, but it sounds as though you are now having total responsibility for 5 young kids all week and all weekend. His life is work work work party party party, and he's moving further away from the man you married.

What attracted you in the first place? Is it possible to get back to basics and rediscover the life you used to have? Did he want 5 children? Is he overwhelmed with the necessity to now provide for a big family, and he's dealing with it by immersing himself in work and the social life that goes along with it?

A lot of questions, and no easy answers.
I couldn't live with someone who behaved like that tbh.

Violethill - He was keen for us to have a large family and wanted to start straight away after we got married, he said he loved kids and couldnt wait to be a dad.

However, when the reality hit, dirty nappies, sleepless nights and the sheer exhausting tedium that accompanied toddlers he wasnt at all the hands on father I had come to expect. I took to motherhood immediately, however, and loved all of that, and we also could afford an au pair to help out, so that sort of saved him having to help me. Instead he continued on working and playing hard, overcommitting himself both professionally and socially, to the point where our marriage too a real hammering, and the alcohol abuse just really was always there in the background.

He has tried to shape up, moderate the intake a bit, and is becoming a bit better with the kids now that they are getting older, but of late, things are slipping. The binges are beginning to happen more often,and whereas he used to be sorry and ashamed after it, he is now more belligerent and defensive. He more or less said to me today that I have no reason to complain about his behaviour as he is entitled to go out and enjoy a "few beers" from time to time, and said indirectly that because we live in a nice house and have a nice lifestyle that I should not compare him to other men or expect his behaviour to be that of a reasonable man, that, in other words, I have to take the rough with the smooth.

But to me all I hear is "I dont respect you and I will do as I please." His behaviour and attitude today, (sullen, defensive, belligerent) just illustrates this.

He got up at midday, has done nothing all day with his children but has found the energy to go out to our local sports club AGM which he sponsors.

He can pull through for everyone else except his own family.

I rather got the impression this might be the case.

He liked the idea of kids, but the reality wasn't what he'd bargained for, but you loved having babies so kept having them and he even funded an au pair which enabled him to be even more hands-off.

I hope this doesn't come across as harsh, but I do think you both have to take responsibility for having allowed the life that's developed to build up. It seems strange to have 5 children with a man who isn't relishing parenting, and isn't helping out. It may have served your own needs, but in a sense, it was avoiding the responsibility to keep your DH central to family life. It seems as though by providing the big house, the money and the au pair, he feels it lets him off the hook, and you have been happy to go along with that because it enables you to have a lot of children and be a SAHM

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but its important to see the whole picture, and how he might view things.
Clearly he feels that he provides you with the lifestyle you want, and that entitles him to behave how he wants. (It DOESN'T of course, I'm just describing how he sees it)

This may seem a massive leap, but I wonder whether it needs something really drastic to kick him into touch? Does he need to hear that actually, if he can't treat you and his children with respect, if he can't be a proper hands on dad , then you will consider separating? Does he need to know that actually, you may have given up work to be at home, but if needs must, you'll get back out there and carve out a life of your own?
Does he need to know that you're not just the 'little wife' keeping house, and tolerating this appalling behaviour simply because he provides a good lifestyle?

I know it must seem very scary, but tbh, if this is his natural pattern of behaviour, and he sees nothing wrong with it, other than occasionally sobering up a bit to try to keep you happy, then its unlikely HE will change - so YOU are going to have to. Maybe he'll start respecting you when he sees you would rather move out and live independently than be treated like dirt.

Another thought.... one day those 5 children will have grown up and left home. It'll just be you and your DH again. What will there be to hold you together? And can you really bear the thought that in 20/30 years time, he could still be rolling in at 4 am and pissing in the bed?

Violet, we came close to splitting up last year. He has already had that shock, in that I made it clear that I was prepared to walk away, split the house down the middle and start again sort of thing. We went into counselling, and he pulled his socks up, and the binges died down. But there is always a cycle in this issue, and his binges are becoming closer together now, and it is not so much even that, because I could forgive that he has that weakness, it is actually the arrogance and selfishness that accompanies the drinking and late nights that really, really upsets me, and the assumption that I will always just carry on doing what I always do, while he just does his own thing and fits US in around his plans.

I am not sure that we will be together in 20 years time, right now, I just cannot see it.

I'm so sorry to hear how bad things are. Is it worth trying counselling again? Or is this just the pattern now, that he'll step up temporarily and then revert to his old ways?
It sounds as though you're being realistic, that you now need to think about yourself, your children and your future. If he wont change, then you need to change how you deal with this. I hope you have family and friends to support you, as you may have to go through the pain barrier of getting out before it starts to get better

I think you are right in that this is just the pattern now.

It would have to get a lot worse before I left him, because I think the damage of a divorce would be worse for the kids at this stage than the damage to me, staying with a man that I am losing respect and love for.

But in saying that, I wouldnt rule it out. I have come to believe that whilst it doesnt harm children to have parents who are midly discontented with each other at times, if the level of unhappiness reaches a certain point then it does become harmful to the kids.

We are not at that point. Yet. Are we getting there? Very Possibly.

I have a good network of friends but do not like to burden them with this, and prefer to vent on here, so to that effect, thanks for your kind advice.