Where do I go from here?

[DadIsSad]

Dad of 2 small children, 4 and 1.5yrs. I'm really unhappy - love my kids to bits, but not sure I have a "relationship" with my wife any more. Have had sex once in the last 4 3/4 years (do the maths - I'd be suspicious she was having an affair, but there are no other indicators, and I don't know where she'd fit in the time). There is no intimacy - whilst I'm a normal bloke and would really love to have a physical relationship, I think I miss that more. I'm not sure she loves me any more, but then I'm not convinced I love her either. I used to try, but there's only so much rejection you can take, so I don't bother any more. Given we had sex last time because she wanted another child (I wasn't so sure at the time, but very happy to have them both now), and it was "practicing", I almost feel used - it seems she wasn't actually interested in having sex with me at all, just in getting pregnant.

I feel like I'm just going through the motions of life - I also used to compete in sport to a pretty high level, but being a dad has limited the amount of time I have for that, so I'm now really unfit. Given a lot of my motivation came from being successful, I find it hard to even be bothered now when there seems like no prospect of ever getting back to where I was. No longer see all the friends I used to have through that - just interact with them on Facebook, which seems really sad. Not even sure I have any real friends - I suppose I should be grateful that at least I still talk to my wife, and actually really get on quite well with her as a friend most of the time, as otherwise the only people I talk to regularly are people at work (I'm not really that into my job either).

I reckon given the opportunity I'd have an affair, but there's no real worry from that perspective, as I don't really meet any women either apart from mums when I take the kids out - though it is at least nice to get a little attention from that direction as I can pretend they're smiling at me when I'm with my little one who is very cute. Have even thought about seeing a prostitute, but the idea doesn't actually appeal that much, and I'm sure I won't feel better about myself afterwards.

That's a lot of stuff - and pretty heavy for a first post I guess (it's not a troll BTW). Not really expecting any useful advice, or even much in the way of sympathy from women on here (I'm sure there is a huge amount I've done wrong), but maybe it's a bit like standing up at AA - the first time ever I've even tried to articulate these thoughts, though it makes me feel pretty sad reading back through them.

you do sound very unhappy. but you also sound rather whingy and extremely negative as well as unwilling to take steps to improve things for yourself and for your family... not very attractive imo. moaning to strangers on an internet forum instead of having an honest and full discussion with your wife in an effort to change things / decide to end this relationship is a bit, well, feeble really. don't you think she needs to know how you feel??

I get the feeling your wife doesn't actually like sex that much, if she's ok about only having it twice in nearly 5 years, and before that only (?) when she was drunk.
She doesn't want to talk about contraception, what does that imply?

FFS, what's that about needing an ideal home exhibition for the babysitter?! Is it just an excuse to avoid being alone with you for an evening? (Or could be worried about leaving her babies with a stranger?).

I think you should just come straight out and tell her you need more intimacy, and take it from there. Right now, it seems to have become the elephant in the room.

You sound like a good bloke and a hands-on dad, she should count her lucky stars!

Oh, and don't get the snip, (why bother, if there's no sex anyway), if you and your wife are not meant to be together for life and say, 10 years down the line you meet a woman who wants children...

Yes, always a bit inhibited - I don't think she's ever masturbated (once went to an Ann Summers party and came home with a toy - commented that she felt she had to buy something but AFAIK it never came out of the packaging). Before children it was OK - we had sex at a frequency I could cope with, but it seems having children was the excuse to stop entirely - I wasn't about to pressure her to have sex when pregnant when she seemed totally uninterestd in the idea (maybe that's where I went wrong?) Then having not had sex for a year she had no inclination to start again until she needed a sperm donor.

It's not like we were all over each other when we started out, but I do remember getting the impression she actually wanted to have sex with me regularly back then.

That's actually a far more helpful response than I was expecting :)

Good for you for listening to us and not having a strop!

Talking about uncomfortable subjects is difficult but necessary and better than not talking and giving up.

What about your sport? Could you maybe become a coach/instructor and start getting involved with kids so you can take yours along when they get older? Or maybe get involved as a veteran? Most sports have age categories.

That's the problem then isn't it, your wife is happy to have a sexless marriage with a man who will support her and her children.

After 5 years of rejection and loneliness you have nothing to lose by being straight with her. If you have any hope of making it work she must first acknowledge that you did not go into this wanting a sexless marriage. Your expectations from the start where different.

"You sound like a good bloke and a hands-on dad, she should count her lucky stars!"

It's just that it seems all her friends' hubbies do far more than me.

I agree that I'm whingy and negative - no offence taken at all. Yep, passive, feeble and unable to take decisions too - I'm all that. I doubt I'm actually going to do any of the things I'm suggesting - just trying to work out something to do which might make things better rather than worse (in the back of my mind I have the idea that just trying to cope rattling along as we are might be better than the alternative).

"in the back of my mind I have the idea that just trying to cope rattling along as we are might be better than the alternative"

You sure about that? it seems to me that at the moment you wife has everything she could wish for, an extra pair of hands to look after the kids, do some domestic work, help around the house, and pay the bills without the slightest inclination to care about your needs and feelings? Is she even aware of how unhappy this makes you feel. After 5 years maybe she is willing to risk continuing to reject you because you have allowed this situation to continue for so long. Is she aware that her marriage is at breaking point? Would she care?

I agree with nogreatexpecations - your wife seems to be having it all her way.

Of course we only know your side of the story. She could be feeling the same as you do, that you don't pay her any attention, to you she's just a baby machine.

It's all about communication - and take it from one who learnt the hard way (ex-H had an affair because I dared to reject him twice in bed when I was menopausal, therefore he thought I didn't love him any more - yeah, whatever!!), you must talk through these problems together, if only so that down the line if you separate you will always know you did what you could to try and sort things out.

Sex is an important part of a relationship - to many it's how intimacy is shown. OK, so she's inhibited, maybe after two children she's thinking her body is not what it used to be. . . who know's what's going through her head.

Good luck to you, you sound like a caring man deep down, you've not left the family even as much as you want (and probably need) to.

Keep in touch and take care.

If your house is cluttered with your stuff then your are not really helping with the house and looking after the kids are you?

Looking after kids includes giving them a nice environment, and I would be pretty resentful having to live in someone else's mess tbh.

You sound like a lovely person who is feeling really really sad at the moment. Your despair exudes from your posts, so massive sympathy to you.
I don't have much advice, but just wanted to say it's nice to see a bloke posting here, listening to the (constructive) advice given, and being so polite and reasonable. I hope you get things sorted out. I would suggest trying something like Relate, even if all it does is allow you both to split up with dignity and communication.
Good luck to you :)

Well we've had a talk.

It didn't really go very well - you know how they say to just get on with it as it won't be as bad as you think, well I'd actually imagined it going a bit better than that.

Though I suppose I'm still here, and not completely convinced she wants me to leave.

is it that your DW actively dislikes sex and intimacy, or is it that she doesn't feel any desires for either? Whenever there is a similar thread written by a woman, there are usually several posters who suggest there could be a physical reason for 'non- desire',could this be the problem for your DW? If she dislikes it, is it that she dislikes being intimate with you, or with anybody? If it is the case that she just doesn't like/want any intimacy with anyone, then maybe it is time to seriously think about meeting your needs outside of the marriage. How would you feel about that? How would she feel about that? Let me be honest, I do not condone affairs. If DH had one, I would end my ( long) marriage. I am talking about a situation where your DW knows what is happening. Whilst I do not believe it is correct to force someone into having sex, I also believe it is wrong for one party in a marriage to make a unilateral decision that because they do not want it, the spouse has to go without. Like others who have already posted, I too believe that sex and intimacy are an important part of marriage. I also believe that witholding it is considered unreasonable behaviour with regards to divorce proceedings.

There will always be those who will jump on you and say that it must ne your fault, that you are not doing your 'fair share' around the house/ with the children/etc etc, but from what you say, there is more to this than can be solved by you doing a bit of extra housework. ( My house is not 'ideal home' tidy because we would rather be in bed having fun than vacuuming the living room!)

I don't have any real advice I am afraid, but I do think you need to let your wife know, very clearly, that this cannot continue and that one way or another, you have a right to intimacy, either with her ( as a willing partner) or with someone else ( with your wife knowing). Of course, if she chooses the second option, she must accept there is always the chance that you might end up in a more fulfilling relationship with your 'intimacy partner'.

DadisSad, I feel for you. My DH and I are going through similar problems. We have been married for 20 years this year, but sex has always been an issue.

From my perspective, it may be that your wife is not uninterested in sex. I am certainly very interested in sex, just not with my DH. It is not that I don't love him, I do. The problem is that the way we relate to each other means that for all these years I haven't seen him as a sexual being. It's hard to want to have sex with someone you don't believe really deep down wants to have sex with you. For most of our marriage I believed he was gay, but in denial.

Then I had an affair. The effects were traumatic, to say the least, but we certainly re-evaluated our situation, and agreed that we couldn't go on the way we were before. In the aftermath of the affair, and indeed before it, he was pretty much a doormat and used to do everything for me - even though actually I didn't want him to. He has gone through enormous emotional growth and his self-respect has increased hugely.

With this has increased my respect for him, to the point where we both now feel that we have some sort of basis for making our marriage work, properly.

One of the things that has come out of our very honest and frank discussions is that he makes me feel almost panicky when he comes onto me, and I believe this is because for years and years, when he did, I either rejected him and had to deal with the fallout from that, or I gave in and had sex which frankly made me feel bleak.

He is now accepting that doing all the housework is not a substitute for wooing me, and making me feel sexy. We are working on this. I am feeling very very slightly optimistic.

I really feel for you, and hope that this might help. It sounds as though our situations are quite similar (we also have 2 DC but they are much older now).

Mrs C makes a very good points.

I'm sorry you talk with you DW wasn't as positive as you hoped. Have you resolved anything? Did your wife acknowledge the problem and has she agreed to try and make changes?

I put DH through this after the birth of DS1. I think some women, me included are sort of pre-programmed to go off sex after a child. Whilst men are biologically inclined to sow their oats, after a women has had a child, she reverts to cave brain, and all effort and energy goes into nurturing the child. Similar situation with contraception but once we resolved this we over came the problems. It took a long while to get back into the habbit, because avoiding sex had become a habbit!

Has your wife agreed to look at the issue of contraception, because it is a step in right direction.

If you sat next to her and touched her hand - would she assume you want sex?
I think such assumptions are made - on both sides.
So say if you tell her - Love, I just want you to lie your head on my lap and stroke your hair - would that offent her, how would you feel to tell her that that is how you want to spend next 5, 10, 15 minutes?

There is another possibility, which is that she is 'just not that into you' anymore and can't grow a pair of ovaries to tell you so.

Obviously I can't know that for sure but sometimes people in couples know in their hearts that it's over but can't bring themselves to end it, so they just act horrible until the other person ends it so they can blame you.

What happened when you talked to her?

Nothing to add really but to say that I have just read this thread and it is all so very sad. I do wish you well in sorting out a happier future...one way or aother

I totally agree with sayithowitis.

... sorry, pressed send too early !! I mean it is incredibly important to let her know how important this is and that the status quo cannot continue

Have spoken again - a lot more positive than last time.

Had written a whole lot more, but actually realised it wasn't that useful telling a load of strangers all the ins and outs, and it would be boring anyway. We are at least talking now, and have resolved various things to do - she was actually quite keen on some of my suggestions I'd been scared of proposing for fear of rejection. Still not feeling very happy, and the prospect of having sex is months away given all the stuff we need to resolve (which still leaves me feeling frustrated), but the prospect of me moving out has at least diminished somewhat.

Only managed a couple of hours sleep last night - sleep is an ongoing problem for me, so I've finally decided to go to the doctors for some sleeping pills tomorrow (only writing that so I don't change my mind!)

Thanks for all the help.

You sound depressed, which given your situation, is not surprising. Why not tell your GP the whole story? He may be able to help you, or recommend someone who can. My Mother refused sex after the birth of my younger sister. My father was mid thirties. They had separate rooms, and he became a doormat. She allowed him to finance her lifestyle and gave no thought to him or his needs. Years later he was quietly bitter and wished he had left her. She didn't miss him when he died, but she did miss his wage and his domestic help. She secretly despised his weakness.

How will you feel about this in 10, 20 30 years time? Would it be best to start afresh now?

You sound lovely. Look after you and your needs, she clearly will not.

Hugs

DadIsSad - Just to let you know, you're not the only Dad in this situation - I could have written most of the things that you did (no intimacy, no affection, no sex etc..). It tears you apart when all you want to do is the right thing for your DW and DCs. We had a big talk pre-Christmas and discussed 3 options - split up, stay together but just as friends, or sort it out. I'm certain she's not in love with me anymore (she's told me as much) so I don't see how option 3 can happen.

I'm getting to the conclusion that I'll have to go - I just can't go on being this unhappy for much longer. Can't bear the thought of the stress and pain it will bring, and dread leaving my 3 DC's behind.

Stick at it mate - if you can save it, do so !

baffledness - I was thinking about your situation when I saw this thread. Wondered how things had gone recently. Don't feel the need to reply to this, Just wanted to say I remembered you.